GT350/R Price Drop? Time to Buy?

[13COBRA]

I posted in the other thread as well, I think GT350 owners are fine.

There's a couple of different options for what the new GT500 will be and neither is a threat to the base 350s. Might be a threat to the value of the Rs.

If Ford decides to make a GT500 "track" car, which is essentially all the features and frills of the GT350 with more motor, I'd say their price point is still going to be high enough to keep value for the GT350's. They'd have to price point it from $70k-$80k (so imagine a GT350 with an Aluminator and either a supercharger or twins). That would threaten the R, but people are going to look at the GT350 with 529 HP as still a good value in the low 50s barely used, vs. the new GT500 in the upper 70s (without dealer markup) and wonder if it's worth the extra $25k for a couple hundred more horse.

IF the bean counters at Ford make the engineers cull their list of desires, then they'll probably have to give up on some of the "track" features and continue with more of a GT500 muscle car, meant to compete more with the likes of the Hellcat/Demon.

A blown 5.2 with a T56 and typical Ford wheels is gonna end up in the 4k lb range and be a drag pig, not a svelt curve cutter.

The only way they get down to being a nimble track car (and keep the blower) is adding cost, via trans, cooler, R carbon wheels, etc which is all going to push the price tag up and out of direct competition with the 350.

IF, the new GT500 is nothing more than a GT350 with a Factory eaton and warranty for $5k more, then most of us who bought 350's are screwed on the resale value, then again, if that's all it is, we're essentially okay because you can just dump $10k into the car and have an equivalent.

I agree with a lot you have to say...

The new GT500 will be a 'track' car. It will have a couple hundred more horsepower than the GT350. It will be more track focused; I mean look at the GT Performance Package Stage II, 315s all-around, definitely going on the GT500.

The new GT500 will out-do the GT350(R), I promise.

 

[ZYBORG]

New GT500 will be gunning to take down the ZL1 1LE. I see matching handling performance and outdoing it in straight-line acceleration.

New 500 will not go after the Demon. Dodge will have that section of the market (muscle heads) for quite a while.

 

[ANGREY]

Okay, but at what price point? Unless they can offer the car for $60k MSRP or less, we're fine. Even at that price point, the dealer markups are going to be severe (at least for awhile). If I'm in the market for a track car, my value decision is then a slightly used GT350 for low 50s, OR a brand new GT500 for another 15-20k. Is it worth that delta for a blower?

And not to be discounted completely, but one of my personal decision factors was the uniqueness of the flat plane crank and the sound. There's NOTHING in the car market right now like the GT350. Granted, not everyone holds that in high value, but a lot do.

IF, somehow Ford is able to basically take a 350 and drop twins or a TVS on it and sell the car for lower than $60k without murderous dealer upcharge, then I'd say yes, we're screwed, but that's a lot of BIG ifs.....

 

[ZYBORG]

I've never been a fan of this "flat plane crank madness".

Almost bought a 350 but went with a 14' 500 instead.

I love the 350 looks and its handling prowess but not a big fan of the motor. I wish Ford would have managed to fit a "beefed up/FI'ed" coyote based motor on the 350. Which is what I think the new 500 will be bringing to the table.

Cant wait for the unveiling.

 

[ANGREY]

That would be a threat to the R's, but not the 350's unless Ford did it for cheap, which is doubtful. I ain't sellin' my car anytime soon, so I'm not really worried about it anyway, I just think people are panicking for no reason.

Even the new GT premiums with the level III upgrades aren't really a threat to the 350 cause again, Ford's offering all this stuff, but they ain't offering it for cheap. A GT with all the bells and whistles next year is gonna run mid 40's and that's BEFORE dealer madness. (and it's still not going to bridge the whole gap to a 350).

 

[GT Premi]

I posted in the other thread as well, I think GT350 owners are fine.

There's a couple of different options for what the new GT500 will be and neither is a threat to the base 350s. Might be a threat to the value of the Rs.

...

I don't think it would be a threat to the R's value, either. That's like saying the 911 Turbo S and GT2 RS threaten the GT3's value. They don't. People who like/buy the R appreciate it for what it is. A new GT500 will be priced beyond an R to begin with. Initial dealer markups on it are inevitable, so it still won't be a threat to the R's value. A lot of us have been-there-done-that with Mustangs with engines that overpower their chassis. It's nice to have something more balanced, and a lot of people will still appreciate that.

 

[13COBRA]

Okay, but at what price point? Unless they can offer the car for $60k MSRP or less, we're fine. Even at that price point, the dealer markups are going to be severe (at least for awhile). If I'm in the market for a track car, my value decision is then a slightly used GT350 for low 50s, OR a brand new GT500 for another 15-20k. Is it worth that delta for a blower?

And not to be discounted completely, but one of my personal decision factors was the uniqueness of the flat plane crank and the sound. There's NOTHING in the car market right now like the GT350. Granted, not everyone holds that in high value, but a lot do.

IF, somehow Ford is able to basically take a 350 and drop twins or a TVS on it and sell the car for lower than $60k without murderous dealer upcharge, then I'd say yes, we're screwed, but that's a lot of BIG ifs.....

It does not need to be $60k or less to hurt the GT350s.

 

[ANGREY]

I don't think it would be a threat to the R's value, either. That's like saying the 911 Turbo S and GT2 RS threaten the GT3's value. They don't. People who like/buy the R appreciate it for what it is. A new GT500 will be priced beyond an R to begin with. Initial dealer markups on it are inevitable, so it still won't be a threat to the R's value. A lot of us have been-there-done-that with Mustangs with engines that overpower their chassis. It's nice to have something more balanced, and a lot of people will still appreciate that.

I agree somewhat and I think we're mostly saying the same thing.

Everything has a value, even if it's subconscious. Would I prefer an R over my 350 track package? Surely. Was I willing to pay the difference? No. Because my personal valuation was that the upcharge was NOT worth the benefits and drawbacks. And I got a great deal on EXACTLY the car I wanted (paint and track pack, slightly used for a really good deal). Obviously, each person values stuff differently.

IF it's as others described and the GT500 is simply a 350R with FI, then it becomes a matter of price point. IF it's configured as described and priced close to what the actual selling prices are for the 350R, it will indeed hurt R prices.

I realize what you're saying and that maybe there are guys out there that are purists and see the R as being balanced and fine the way it is, but a LOT of people will view it as "better to have it and not need it" mentality with additional power.

Again, a lot of IFs. IF however, it is a 350R on FI and the price is significantly higher, it will help to maintain the value for current R owners (and future owners) who look at it and say...sure I'd like the blower, but it ain't worth the extra $15k. But then again, value starts to become different with the higher prices. $15k to a guy already spending $80k on a car is different than $15k to a guy making a decision between a $25k car and a $40k upgrade. (as someone already pointed out, people who can afford the R are ballin' out already).

I just don't think Ford is going to do any of these things. I think it's outside the solveable region. I don't think they can sell a high number of cars at a price point above the R's.

I don't think they can make money by offering a car with all the features of the R and a factory blower/twin setup at a lower MSRP than the R currently.

I think Ford will leave the 350 series alone and will continue with the muscle car lineage.

I think it'll be a blown coyote or aluminator, it'll have decent (but not 350 grade) brakes and wheel/tires. It'll be heavier, with probably a T-56 or the 10 speed auto (vomit).

Ford isn't like GM when it comes to segmenting their vehicles. GM killed the Camaro the first time because the idiots couldn't figure out differentiation and price points. It makes little to no sense to compete directly with an already established product line. UNLESS, they view the 350 as a dead product that's destined to be discontinued. Then we might have problems.

I think the GT500 will either be a price comparable car with different features (aka a heavy muscle car like it's been for awhile) OR it'll be a 350R on steroids that cost a fortune. I just don't see how they can make money off the latter. They're already in premium Vette territory with the R.

A disaster for both 350 and 350R owners would be a base 350 with an aluminator built engine and FI with all the features of the R except the CF wheels at around $60k. THAT is what it's going to take to compete with the likes of the ZL1. IF Ford decides to do that, then yes, we should ALL sell our cars immediately.

 

[GT Premi]

... It makes little to no sense to compete directly with an already established product line. UNLESS, they view the 350 as a dead product that's destined to be discontinued. Then we might have problems.

I think the GT500 will either be a price comparable car with different features (aka a heavy muscle car like it's been for awhile) OR it'll be a 350R on steroids that cost a fortune. I just don't see how they can make money off the latter. They're already in premium Vette territory with the R.

A disaster for both 350 and 350R owners would be a base 350 with an aluminator built engine and FI with all the features of the R except the CF wheels at around $60k. THAT is what it's going to take to compete with the likes of the ZL1. IF Ford decides to do that, then yes, we should ALL sell our cars immediately.

The GT350 is destined to be discontinued. There wasn't even supposed to be an '18 model year for it. The GT350 and GT500, unfortunately, won't be built in parallel. The GT350 will end, then the GT500 will begin. Whatever the "next big thing" is in the Mustang lineup isn't ready yet, so Ford extended GT350 production for another model year. I think we're going to get a stopgap car in between, but it's not going to be on the level of the GT350; probably the much rumored Bullitt.

The ZL1 is just shy of $65K base. Don't expect the next GT500 to be less than $69,995 base MSRP. That carbon fiber k-member (and other bits) is going to be pricey. My prediction (and hope) is the next GT500 will be a GT350R turned up to 11 or 12. And I don't just mean more power. I'm talking better performance all the way around. Throwing a blower on an R (or any GT350, IMO) pretty much ruins what the car is supposed to be. I don't think Ford is going to just throw away what they learned with the GT350/GT350R program.

 

[oldbmwfan]

I have a hunch they are going even further than that; I'm curious what the GT500 will borrow from the lessons of the FGT. Not a lot crosses over (though the GT uses basically the same brakes as the GT350, except for the carbon-ceramic discs), but I think we will see a surprising amount of tech in the GT500.

 

[GT Premi]

No arguments there! I expect to see quite a few more functional carbon fiber parts, optional and standard, like fenders, hood, etc. Carbon-ceramic brakes will probably be available as an option. I think a 7-speed DCT is all but guaranteed.

 

[ANGREY]

It depends on their sales/margins for the 350R and what they anticipate marketing data has come back on the price point you guys are talking about.

I can't imagine Ford will sell a lot of mustangs North of $70k. Is it worth all the time/effort to redesign to the level you guys are talking about and ONLY sell in the Vette price range? Probably not.

If they're going to invest all that time and R&D, you can best bet they'll probably offer 2 trims, like they did with the 350. A lesser model that captures most of the features and an extreme or R model that's way high.

I can tell you this though, if they do offer a blown 5+ liter with the handling characteristics of the 350 for less than $70k, we're screwed, not only because it will devalue our cars, but because it probably means the death of the 350.

Some of you think the death of the 350 is a good thing (in terms of rarity and collectability) but for those of us who actually plan on driving the isht out of the car, it's bad, because it absolutely cuts off the aftermarket incentive for new products/parts and also makes repair and replacement parts much more expensive.

I happen to think auto manufacturers are doing that sorta thing on purpose, changing the platform significantly every few years. There's other things, like this whole new "Michelin developed a new tire SPECIFICALLY for this car."

We're seeing that with the new Mustang GT and being equipped with new model Michelins (305 square), instead of selecting something more mainstream.

 

[13COBRA]

It depends on their sales/margins for the 350R and what they anticipate marketing data has come back on the price point you guys are talking about.

I can't imagine Ford will sell a lot of mustangs North of $70k. Is it worth all the time/effort to redesign to the level you guys are talking about and ONLY sell in the Vette price range? Probably not.

If they're going to invest all that time and R&D, you can best bet they'll probably offer 2 trims, like they did with the 350. A lesser model that captures most of the features and an extreme or R model that's way high.

I can tell you this though, if they do offer a blown 5+ liter with the handling characteristics of the 350 for less than $70k, we're screwed, not only because it will devalue our cars, but because it probably means the death of the 350.

Some of you think the death of the 350 is a good thing (in terms of rarity and collectability) but for those of us who actually plan on driving the isht out of the car, it's bad, because it absolutely cuts off the aftermarket incentive for new products/parts and also makes repair and replacement parts much more expensive.

I happen to think auto manufacturers are doing that sorta thing on purpose, changing the platform significantly every few years. There's other things, like this whole new "Michelin developed a new tire SPECIFICALLY for this car."

We're seeing that with the new Mustang GT and being equipped with new model Michelins (305 square), instead of selecting something more mainstream.

I can feel the troll starting to go on.

The GT350 is NOT a collector car. It is a mass produced car. The day and age of collector cars coming off the line, are FAR AND FEW BETWEEN. Now, the 2015's may pull some bucks some days. Even the 16/17/18 R's aren't that numbered.

As far as aftermarket being cut off because there were only a few years of it produced, have you not ever heard of the 2003/04 Cobra? The 2005/06 Ford GT? I mean c'mon, there is a market for the aftermarket companies, so they will be there. I mean, from 1992-2017 Dodge only produced 31,XXX Vipers, and there is a substantial aftermarket for them.

AGAIN, Ford will not produce a GT500 that is leaps and bounds better than the GT350 for less than $70k. They will not do it. The market will bare a higher price, for example, GT350Rs were trading hands at 6 figures (which is absolutely RIDICULOUS, but it happened).

 

[GT Premi]

Nobody's wishing for the GT350 to go away. That has been Fords plan from day one. It's a limited run vehicle. And you're mistaken in thinking Ford can't sell a Mustang north of $70K. The '13/'14 GT500 w/ options was north of $70K. Also, manufacturers use specific rubber compounds all the time. Ford worked with Michelin to develop Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires specific to the GT350R. There's nothing ominous or nefarious there.

 

[13COBRA]

Nobody's wishing for the GT350 to go away. That has been Fords plan from day one. It's a limited run vehicle. And you're mistaken in thinking Ford can't sell a Mustang north of $70K. The '13/'14 GT500 w/ options was north of $70K. Also, manufacturers use specific rubber compounds all the time. Ford worked with Michelin to develop Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires specific to the GT350R. There's nothing ominous or nefarious there.

A fully optioned 2013/14 GT500 was $69k (convertible).

 

[CO Mack]

I’ll be surprised if the GT500 is a GT350R turned up to 11.

Ford has been true to the original Shelby GT500 as a beastly, road GT car and the GT350R as a beastly, high strung, track car.

 

[13COBRA]

I’ll be surprised if the GT500 is a GT350R turned up to 11.

Ford has been true to the original Shelby GT500 as a beastly, road GT car and the GT350R as a beastly, high strung, track car.

I think it'll be considered an 11.5.

 

[CO Mack]

 

[Tob]

The new GT500 will be a 'track' car. It will have a couple hundred more horsepower than the GT350. It will be more track focused; I mean look at the GT Performance Package Stage II, 315s all-around, definitely going on the GT500.

The new GT500 will out-do the GT350(R), I promise.

This.

I don't think Ford is going to just throw away what they learned with the GT350/GT350R program.

They won't. It wouldn't make sense.

...I think we will see a surprising amount of tech in the GT500.

This is precisely what the boots on the ground that I know have said.

I think it'll be considered an 11.5.

Can't wait!

I think it'll be a blown coyote or aluminator, it'll have decent (but not 350 grade) brakes and wheel/tires.

I don't see them dumping the GT350's superior aluminum knuckle (or it's respective hub). I sense the move to a 20" wheel and an even larger rotor/caliper. CC brakes could finally make the cut if for anything, weight reduction, if Ford is able to bring their cost down. They are not going to go backwards here. The driveshaft, wheels, and more structural/body panels, are areas where I can see the use of carbon fiber. Room is indeed needed to negate weight gain from additional coolers, supercharger, more robust transmission, etc.

 

[02GTKB]

A fully optioned 2013/14 GT500 was $69k (convertible).

Yes I have one! But never paid that price..