GT500... SS / KR / 40th... whatever... why?

[Robert M]

To me, the Newest cobra was in development way before Shelby got involved. Hince the direct ties with the Ford GT motor, tranny they already developed and such. Yes, I know the motors are different, but not by much. Shelby, IMO, bascially signed off on the looks and performance numbers of the car, not the development of it.

Yes, the GT500 is the best bang for the buck..still..if you can get it for msrp or under. I would love to have a 2008 SVT Cobra, and keep shelby's name off it and the ADM's. Thanks Shelby!

I understand what you are saying here^^^^^^^.

$80K or so is a great bang for the buck for 725h.p. also. I believe the new ZR1 (650h.p.) is going to be $100K or so? I can't think of many 725 horse cars that have a good name behind them, for $80K.

I know that the Super Snake is not the technology car that a Corvette ZR1 is, but when comparing cars in the 600-750h.p. range, the Super Snakes would be right up there in performance. If the ZR1 were to be 725h.p. car, it would be well over $100K.

R

 

[Robert M]

This thread...whatever...why?

I can't understand the high prices of Caviar in Moscow, but if I'm not buying it anyways, I keep my mouth shut about the subject. Novel concept.

Hop in. Opinions are welcome....

There are many different ways to look at the Ford/Shelby connection. Some Good, some Bad, some Ugly. What ever the thoughts, the bottom line is that the GT500 we have today stems from a Mustang idea way back in the mid 60's. If Shelby would not have been such a huge success with Ford, and the Mustang, and an icon in the automotive industry, there most likely would not be a Shelby Mustang today. It all goes back to the beginning and has grown to what it is today.


R

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

Hop in. Opinions are welcome....

There are many different ways to look at the Ford/Shelby connection. Some Good, some Bad, some Ugly. What ever the thoughts, the bottom line is that the GT500 we have today stems from a Mustang idea way back in the mid 60's. If Shelby would not have been such a huge success with Ford, and the Mustang, and an icon in the automotive industry, there most likely would not be a Shelby Mustang today. It all goes back to the beginning and has grown to what it is today.


R

I agree. The "Cobra" that ford has used for years came from Shelby.

And guys...don't get your panties in a bunch. I'm just having a conversation about it, and I don't want to have anyone insulted or anything like that. :coolman:

 

[Stripe Delete]

I have not seen this connection with the GT500 in any Ford literature specific to the GT500,
R

This is the 2007 FRPP catalog and its reffered to as the SVT Cobra.
This just makes it clear to me that its a SVT Cobra first and the Shelby name was added later. Props to the SVT team who often get ignored with this vehicle.:beer:

As far as all the additional packages, Ill make mine how I like it. That for the rich folks IMO.
I expect my car to depreciate just like every car I have ever owned cause Im going to drive the piss out of it and put a ton of miles on it.:coolman:

 

[65SC]

Isn't anything "Shelby" over priced? Hummmm........Let's examine this further.

Why is "Shelby" over priced? or maybe not over priced, but very realistically on the high end of "Mustang" related options, parts, features, packages, etc.? The reason is because of the relationship with Ford from the beginning of the Mustang. Since 1964.5 Shelby had his eyes on the Mustang and in 1965 things became reality. I don't even know if Hennessey was around back then, nor Saleen, nor Steeda. Jack Roush was around, but in the early years he was not building the Mustang reputation, nor were any of the others. So that leads us back to Shelby. Shelby brought the Mustang to a point in the performance world well beyond what Ford did at that time.<<<<<These facts put Shelby in a whole different world from other "Mustang performance builders". He (Shelby) started it all. As it relates to Mustangs, Shelby has paid his dues, people respect the name, the product is proven and people are willing to pay for it.

The name reference, "Shelby" on a Mustang, if it is a real Shelby, it has proven history to be valuable, if it is not a real Shelby, or something cobbled together by the current or previous owner, it just doesn't bring that same big $$$.

I agree that the KR's are way over priced right now, but if I remember correctly, when the GT500 first came out, and even well after the fact, they were commanding large $$$ over MSRP, not like the KR, but "supposedly" the KR is limited to 1000 build.<<<Huge difference when comparing the GT500 build. But yes, a Ford GT is in that $$$ range. I'm sure that any KR buyer could most likely pull the trigger on a Ford GT instead, and I'm sure if money was the only issue, a Ford GT would be in their garage and not a Mustang. But I would guess that the KR buyer wants a KR Mustang, not a Ford GT. Sound logical?

The SS............I have priced all of the parts that Shelby sells seperate for the SS, they add up to just over $20K if you include a quality paint job on the SS hood, the 20" performance tires to go on the 20" wheels, and stripe kit. Shelby will do it all for $28K including labor, with a warranty.<<<This is for the 600 h.p. option SS. The 725h.p. specific items are not shown on the SS parts list, so I would guess add an additional $3K+?, so now we are solidly in the mid-$20K's for parts only, no labor on the 725. The base 725h.p. SS package is not $36K, it is just under $32K. The labor looks much more realistic when the numbers are laid out. Is it cheap? no, is anything with Shelby's name on it cheap, no. But a Hennessey Mustang just doesn't have the same sound as a Shelby Mustang. It would be like Callaway offering a 750 horse Mustang, it's just not the same.

As with the collector cars from the 60's, the cars that were built by a "known" builder, Yenko, Shelby, Baldwin etc., they are the valuable cars. The ones that were modified by Joe lunchbox, well..................

I have no reason to think that history will not repeat itself when it comes to the future performance car enthusiast, if fuel is available.

R

You have forgot to mention Robert Tasca Sr. He has worked with Ford/Mustangs as early as Mr. Shelby if not even earlier.
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-dealers.shtml#tasca

 

[FormerGmc]

Why?

Because I like it.

 

[ff500]

IMO and I'm sure I'll be corrected, Ford has and still is hurting, svt built and designed the gt500( maybe with some help from Shelby? ), Ford originally signed a 2 or 3 year contract with Shelby to use his name to help sell units, and thats where we are now, It was a huge success especially for Shelby, with the gt500, the shelby gt, the kr and all the accesssories Shelby is making for the mustangs even if they aren't Shelby parts, just putting his name on them helps sell them. When he does pass, I feel the demand for anything built after he is gone with his name on it will slow down and anything built while he was alive and signed will be worth some money.

 

[Robert M]

This is the 2007 FRPP catalog and its reffered to as the SVT Cobra.
This just makes it clear to me that its a SVT Cobra first and the Shelby name was added later. Props to the SVT team who often get ignored with this vehicle.:beer:

As far as all the additional packages, Ill make mine how I like it. That for the rich folks IMO.
I expect my car to depreciate just like every car I have ever owned cause Im going to drive the piss out of it and put a ton of miles on it.:coolman:

I wonder why the car does not say "COBRA" if all of the parts related to the car are Cobra parts. Maybe these cars will slowly move from a Shelby to a Cobra?

R

 

[Robert M]

This is the 2007 FRPP catalog and its reffered to as the SVT Cobra.
This just makes it clear to me that its a SVT Cobra first and the Shelby name was added later. Props to the SVT team who often get ignored with this vehicle.:beer:

As far as all the additional packages, Ill make mine how I like it. That for the rich folks IMO.
I expect my car to depreciate just like every car I have ever owned cause Im going to drive the piss out of it and put a ton of miles on it.:coolman:

But according to the Ford sales literature below, nowhere is the Cobra name used. This is why I say that the car, itself (not parts) is not refered to as a Cobra. I also know that some of the current Ford Racing guys are former SVT guys. They were not happy when the Cobra name was replaced by Shelby and GT500. I would guess that there is still some hard feelings over this "name issue". Believe me, I prefer it to be as it was during the 1993-2004 era, but it seems that things have changed in relation to what Ford calls their top performing Mustang. In fact I recently saw a SVT letter for a 1995 Cobra 2-Top showing tha the car was #xxx/499. This letter had been that very recently by its date. The originals say SVT in the upper left corner. This one did not, it said Ford Performance Group. Things appear to be changing....

2008 Ford Mustang Sales brochure.................

First of all it is a Mustang, and then shown as a Shelby GT500, no SVT, no Cobra.

Next place where Cobra and/or SVT "could" fit in the name...........

Now this is the first palce where SVT is mentioned, that I have found, but again, no Cobra.

This was the only other SVT mention that I could find, but again, no Cobra. Note that "Performance guru Carroll Shelby AND Ford SVT conjured this spellbinding take on the 60's original". This sounds much deeper than buying the rights for a name. It sounds like what I had heard/read quite a while ago, Ford engineers and Shelby engineers worked together on this GT500 project.

Here is another good place to refer to the Shelby GT500 to be called a "Cobra".

I am talking to a person on my cell phone right now who is looking his 2007 GT500 window sticker. The only "Cobra" mention is the embossed headrests. The side emblems are called "unique Shelby GT500 badging".

R

 

[ViperBlueCobra]

R

Seems this sums it up. GT500 from SVT. Not from Shelby.

 

[Robert M]

Seems this sums it up. GT500 from SVT. Not from Shelby.

Definitely true.^^^^^^^The GT500 is a Ford product, with "some" input from SVT. BUT, I do not see where it is an SVT product offered as were the 1993-2004 Cobras.<<<With these cars, SVT was right up front (SVT Cobra), not so with the GT500, with this project they were/are more in the background. I would even venture to say that where SVT input was not used, Shelby's was, on these GT500's.<<This is the connection that is much larger than "buying a name".

R

 

[Robert M]

Now where does the KR fall into all of this?

Yes, it is offered through the Ford dealerships. Yes part, or most of it is assembled on the Ford assy. line, but I hear that the KR's are now flowing through the Shelby shop for final touches? Is this true?

If this is true, it sounds like "BOSS 429" days, except is was Kar-Kraft instead of Shelby?

R

 

[93SVTCobra]

Let me clear a few things up here:

1. SVT(Ford) did 100% of the work on the current "Shelby GT500".

2. The car is a Shelby in name only.

3. The current Shelby was a Cobra long before there was any thought of bringing in the Shelby name.

4. Shelby, to my knowledge, doesn't have any Engineers.

5. Don't forget that the centercaps on the current Shelby says SVT.

6. Has anyone seen the centercaps on the GT-500KR yet? Tell me what is listed on them?

7. Who's parts are used on the Shelby GT, GT-500KR and the GT-500SS?

 

[meaty mac]

Just wait a couple years and buy any one of the above mentioned cars for @$30k or so and laugh at the poor chump who paid an insane price for his "collector" car.

I can pretty well guarantee you that you will NEVER find a Shelby Supersnake for 30 grand :nono:

 

[Riddla]

Do not quote the pics!

 

[Stripe Delete]

Definitely true.^^^^^^^The GT500 is a Ford product, with "some" input from SVT. BUT, I do not see where it is an SVT product offered as were the 1993-2004 Cobras.<<<With these cars, SVT was right up front (SVT Cobra), not so with the GT500, with this project they were/are more in the background. I would even venture to say that where SVT input was not used, Shelby's was, on these GT500's.<<This is the connection that is much larger than "buying a name".
R

All Ive heard is that Shelby recomended wider tires for the rear of the GT500. Im sure he may have had some stying ideas (decals) but I think SVT had most everything to do with this car or they would get no credit at all. They would not have used the SVT door sill plates, centercaps, ect.

I do agree that its not a Cobra by official name because of the Shelby involvment but with no Shelby involvment its simply the next SVT Cobra which would have been just fine to me. I bought the car first for the engine, second for the styling. :beer: Im just not into the stripes.

 

[Robert M]

You have forgot to mention Robert Tasca Sr. He has worked with Ford/Mustangs as early as Mr. Shelby if not even earlier.
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-dealers.shtml#tasca

I was thinking, from what I remember reading in the past, that the Tasca was more at the dealership level (Tasca Ford), as Yenko and Baldwin Motion were with the Camaro, Yenko Chevrolet and Baldwin Chevrolet. These cars were purchased, or brought into dealer inventory, modified at that specific dealership, and then either sold to specific customers, or campaigned, like Super Stock drag racing etc. I did not realize that Tasca Mustangs were offered nationwide through Ford dealerships like Shelby Mustangs were, were they? :shrug:

R

 

[Robert M]

Let me clear a few things up here:

1. SVT(Ford) did 100% of the work on the current "Shelby GT500".

2. The car is a Shelby in name only.

3. The current Shelby was a Cobra long before there was any thought of bringing in the Shelby name.

4. Shelby, to my knowledge, doesn't have any Engineers.

5. Don't forget that the centercaps on the current Shelby says SVT.

6. Has anyone seen the centercaps on the GT-500KR yet? Tell me what is listed on them?

7. Who's parts are used on the Shelby GT, GT-500KR and the GT-500SS?

Mark - I will add some pictures this afternoon of a lengthy feature on the 2008 GT500KR. It specifically mentions "Team Shelby" working with Ford and SVT engineers. It also lists the name of an SVT person, maybe you know who it is, who says they were happy to work with Team Shelby on this joint KR project. It also specifically outlines what part SVT played in the KR project and what part Team Shelby played. It even talks about what part Carroll Shelby himself played in the 2008 KR decision making process (I believe). I do not know what knowledge base would incorperate "Team Shelby" for this project, but I can only assume that there may be some engineering expertise?

Yes, the center caps say SVT, and the car says Shelby.

R

 

[Robert M]

Here is some info. that I have come across..............

Does this sound like a "Ford/SVT only" car in this article? Either this feature has many untruths, or Shelby (his people) had/has quite a bit to do with this car........:shrug:

Maybe that is why it (the KR) is $35K MSRP additional on the window sticker for only 40h.p more, and a suspension, that I'll bet is the same (or very close) to the optional Shelby/Eibach (not Ford Racing) suspension available on the Super Snake for an upcharge.<<This is just a guess.

But............the center caps do say "SVT".

R

 

[93SVTCobra]

That magazine is the Shelby brochure for 2007-8. Brilliant move by Shelby if you ask me. You'll find that Sue Elliott also writes articles for Team Shelby. After re-reading that article does anyone else find it strange that no one from Shelby was interviewed for the article?

Those centercaps aren't the ones I've seen on pre-production KR's which also come with 18" tires not the 20's shown (the article also says this).

Just to clarify. Shelby has provided input on the KR. I won't dispute that. Most of my comment above are directed at the base car. The GT-500 was an SVT Cobra long before it was a GT-500.