H/E Without Fans Even Worth It?

[Robert M]

Ok, so I can get a sweet deal on a new AFCO heat exchanger without fans. My question is, is it even worth it to install a H/E if it doesn't have fans? I know the H/E's with fans are better, but I don't want to waste my time with install and what not if it is not going to help much. Thanks!

Here is a link from a while back which specifically is what you are asking about...............

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-Heat-Exchanger&highlight=heat+exchanger+fans

^^^^I'm assuming this is a credible source for information with much testing data?

Post #7 has some owner data log info..............that is as far as I read.

I remembered this post from a while back, and had to do a search to find it.




R

 

[builttodrive]

Funny stuff right here:lol:

The stock heat exchangers aren't real impressive so anything you can do to improve on that would be great. If you can't afford one with fans or afford to add the fans now I would start with the exchanger and add fans down the road.

 

[Snoopy49]

Ever wonder why appliance and electronic manufactures have minimum distances between the back of the unit and a wall? I wonder if the people that design the fan installations take into consideration, other than will it fit without hitting something, the distance between the fan and the block and if it impedes the airflow through the heat exchanger?.

 

[sqidd]

Ever wonder why appliance and electronic manufactures have minimum distances between the back of the unit and a wall? I wonder if the people that design the fan installations take into consideration, other than will it fit without hitting something, the distance between the fan and the block and if it impedes the airflow through the heat exchanger?.

That describes the design process for a lot of stuff in the aftermarket.;-)

"Does it fit?"

"Yes"

"SHIP IT!!!"

 

[ShelbyGT5HUN]

Fans are completely overblown (pun intended). Unless you're looking to cool your car down between rounds at the drag strip they do almost nothing. And unless your pump is running too they really do almost nothing.

At best fans can move about 8-10mph worth of air through the core (despite bullshit manufacturer claims). So if your car is moving over 10mph they are IMPEDING flow.

And when you're under 10mph you're not making boost, which means you're not making much heat.

The space occupied with fans is MUCH better spent on more core volume.

Hey Squidd!

My old pal, buddy! I actually AGREE with you on this. WOW, imagine that :thumbsup: epper: :beer: I always said the best set up, if a tuner could pull this off, is have the H/E fans on only at low vehicle speed. Once you are moving, they become a restriction. You don't need a fan for DD, hence why I pull my fan fuses for everything short of trolling for races on the street, or at the track.


Still waiting :read: op:for your PhD research paper on using a 50A rated pump-mathematical-xbox-model-do-hickey thing, is better than more coolant capacity, that you said was going to set the world on fire with the data... :thumbsup: :rollseyes You are still better off adding MORE coolant to the system, via a spare tire reservoir, than adding a ridiculously OVERSIZED 30A IC pump. Peace out BRAH!

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Ever wonder why appliance and electronic manufactures have minimum distances between the back of the unit and a wall? I wonder if the people that design the fan installations take into consideration, other than will it fit without hitting something, the distance between the fan and the block and if it impedes the airflow through the heat exchanger?.

SPAL has minimum space recommendations between the core and the fans which is part of the engineering of the product.

And for those that don't believe anything was tested. I tested it personally after I installed the first dual fan heat exchanger on my 2007 GT500 and then ran an HPDE event at Homestead the following day. Data logs clearly showed the car had a lower mean IAT2 temperature versus all other non-fan heat exchangers available at the time. Steeda offered a thick core, AFCO offered a larger and denser core, I also tested OEM. All brands were tested. Spark advance higher and there was no heat soak as it had been in the past.

I dreamt it up one night on my garage floor and implemented it. It's been copied multiple times and the original is still the exact same as it was in October of 2008. We also data logged and tested it at Shelby American on the inner road course at LVMS in the height of Summer on the Shelby test car. Shelby still buys and sells the product to this day and buys and installs them on Super Snakes and other GT500's to this day. Why you ask? Because it simply works.

Your car has a radiator, with a fan. That's all a heat exchanger is. A radiator that didn't have fans. My application was for road racing. I never intended to become a vendor and sell the product. I was trying to solve my own heat soak issues and I succeeded in doing so. When I started to publicly discuss my "Scientific and Factual Findings and Readings" people started asking me if they could buy one and Revan Racing, Inc. was born shortly there after in December of 2008.

 

[heatsoaked12]

SPAL has minimum space recommendations between the core and the fans which is part of the engineering of the product.

And for those that don't believe anything was tested. I tested it personally after I installed the first dual fan heat exchanger on my 2007 GT500 and then ran an HPDE event at Homestead the following day. Data logs clearly showed the car had a lower mean IAT2 temperature versus all other non-fan heat exchangers available at the time. Steeda offered a thick core, AFCO offered a larger and denser core, I also tested OEM. All brands were tested. Spark advance higher and there was no heat soak as it had been in the past.

I dreamt it up one night on my garage floor and implemented it. It's been copied multiple times and the original is still the exact same as it was in October of 2008. We also data logged and tested it at Shelby American on the inner road course at LVMS in the height of Summer on the Shelby test car. Shelby still buys and sells the product to this day and buys and installs them on Super Snakes and other GT500's to this day. Why you ask? Because it simply works.

Your car has a radiator, with a fan. That's all a heat exchanger is. A radiator that didn't have fans. My application was for road racing. I never intended to become a vendor and sell the product. I was trying to solve my own heat soak issues and I succeeded in doing so. When I started to publicly discuss my "Scientific and Factual Findings and Readings" people started asking me if they could buy one and Revan Racing, Inc. was born shortly there after in December of 2008.

I do have Vans Super Competition heat exchanger with fans, and an aeorforce gage. Before the HX install, once the iat 2 temps got up and i parked my car (even for a short fuel up) they wouldn't come down below 130 unless it was a cool night and after a 10-15 minute highway drive. After the install (still stock tune) when the computer turns on the pump and fans, the iat 2 drops several digits in the blink of an eye(honestly). At freeway speeds the response is far better than before. One more test I did was let it sit in my garage(shut off after a hot run) until the iat2 and the coolant temps were the same, then started the car and watched the Super Competition get to work. The temps dropped quickly and stayed down. A couple more things to add, Vans HX barely took any more coolant than I removed during the install and the flow inside the tank is far greater.I will add a switch to the system so that I can cool it down while in the lanes at the track.

 

[c6vette]

I have a fanless AFCO from the pre-fan days. I added alcohol injection rather than upgrade to a newer heat exchanger. Screw your puny fans.

 

[sqidd]

SPAL has minimum space recommendations between the core and the fans which is part of the engineering of the product.

And for those that don't believe anything was tested. I tested it personally after I installed the first dual fan heat exchanger on my 2007 GT500 and then ran an HPDE event at Homestead the following day. Data logs clearly showed the car had a lower mean IAT2 temperature versus all other non-fan heat exchangers available at the time. Steeda offered a thick core, AFCO offered a larger and denser core, I also tested OEM. All brands were tested. Spark advance higher and there was no heat soak as it had been in the past.

I dreamt it up one night on my garage floor and implemented it. It's been copied multiple times and the original is still the exact same as it was in October of 2008. We also data logged and tested it at Shelby American on the inner road course at LVMS in the height of Summer on the Shelby test car. Shelby still buys and sells the product to this day and buys and installs them on Super Snakes and other GT500's to this day. Why you ask? Because it simply works.

Your car has a radiator, with a fan. That's all a heat exchanger is. A radiator that didn't have fans. My application was for road racing. I never intended to become a vendor and sell the product. I was trying to solve my own heat soak issues and I succeeded in doing so. When I started to publicly discuss my "Scientific and Factual Findings and Readings" people started asking me if they could buy one and Revan Racing, Inc. was born shortly there after in December of 2008.

How did you test fans vs no fans?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

How did you test fans vs no fans?

Data logging while doing 30 minute sessions at Sebring, Homestead and Daytona. Before fans existed I used AFCO, Steeda and OEM. I also data logged other cars with similar set ups. Same results. After the fans were installed data logging at the same tracks mean IAT2 dropped 60 degrees versus the Steeda heat exchanger and 50 degrees versus OEM and AFCO.

 

[Dinosgt]

Data logging while doing 30 minute sessions at Sebring, Homestead and Daytona. Before fans existed I used AFCO, Steeda and OEM. I also data logged other cars with similar set ups. Same results. After the fans were installed data logging at the same tracks mean IAT2 dropped 60 degrees versus the Steeda heat exchanger and 50 degrees versus OEM and AFCO.

Van - Was the Pump logic changed to run the pumps continuously vs the OEM ECU cutoff thresholds?

For me, the street is the only place this slug will ever venture (most likely). But traffic brutally heat soaks the intercooler core, and it takes forever at highway speeds to bring it back. Per chance someone at the next light wants to squeeze you out a an upcoming merge lane (clearly a lapse in street etiquette, and a "no-no"), I may find all 662 ponies are not available due to timing retard.

Did you do an DD testing as well?

Thanks...

 

[ShelbyGT5HUN]

Data logging while doing 30 minute sessions at Sebring, Homestead and Daytona. Before fans existed I used AFCO, Steeda and OEM. I also data logged other cars with similar set ups. Same results. After the fans were installed data logging at the same tracks mean IAT2 dropped 60 degrees versus the Steeda heat exchanger and 50 degrees versus OEM and AFCO.

Van,

Did you notice any restrictions caused by the fans running, during high speed driving? I have your original design with fans, and love it btw...

 

[Robert M]

Van,

Did you notice any restrictions caused by the fans running, during high speed driving? I have your original design with fans, and love it btw...

Another question would be..............Is there more restriction as the core gets thicker? 2-pass, 3-pass, 4-pass, 5-pass etc. At what point does a thicker core become somewhat of a restriction in comparison to the thinner core that is more efficient at heat removal?





R

 

[RedVenom48]

Another question would be..............Is there more restriction as the core gets thicker? 2-pass, 3-pass, 4-pass, 5-pass etc. At what point does a thicker core become somewhat of a restriction in comparison to the thinner core that is more efficient at heat removal?





R

So long as the physical inner size of the fin core doesnt decrease the flow should remain the same regardless of passes. So, a thicker unit gives the coolant more surface area to get rid of the heat and the increase in passes gives it more opportunities to shed heat before being sent to the intercooler.

 

[Snoopy49]

So long as the physical inner size of the fin core doesnt decrease the flow should remain the same regardless of passes. So, a thicker unit gives the coolant more surface area to get rid of the heat and the increase in passes gives it more opportunities to shed heat before being sent to the intercooler.

The further the air has to flow through the core, the higher the air temperature becomes and the higher the air pressure has to be to flow through the core.
Even if the spacing of the fins stays the same there is still drag induced by the surface area , so the further the air has to travel the higher the drag.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van - Was the Pump logic changed to run the pumps continuously vs the OEM ECU cutoff thresholds?

For me, the street is the only place this slug will ever venture (most likely). But traffic brutally heat soaks the intercooler core, and it takes forever at highway speeds to bring it back. Per chance someone at the next light wants to squeeze you out a an upcoming merge lane (clearly a lapse in street etiquette, and a "no-no"), I may find all 662 ponies are not available due to timing retard.

Did you do an DD testing as well?

Thanks...

Pump logic was changed prior to the dual fan heat exchanger testing on all units. Jon Lund turned on the pump at 60 degrees or greater with my OEM set up and subsequent testing of other units. No logic was modified or changed for the dual fan H/E.

Yes. I data logged and tested it on the street. The advantage of the core and fans is keeping IAT2's to a minimum and faster recovery time.

I have had multiple customers purchase the heat exchanger for cars that are BONE STOCK. The same response over and over. My car feels like it does when I first turn it on in the morning. Crisp and full of power, all day long.

Van,

Did you notice any restrictions caused by the fans running, during high speed driving? I have your original design with fans, and love it btw...

No sir. Even at 180 MPH at Daytona. Once you eclipse the power of the fans with air speed through the core the fans free spin just like when you eclipse the fan on the radiator it's not a restriction the fan free spins.

Some have opined that the fans are a restriction. Indy Car, NASCAR and all forms of racing use fans, namely almost all of them use SPAL fans. Same fans we use on the H/E. Fans are not an obstruction if they were they wouldn't use them on race cars at 200 MPH running around Daytona. The fans have a brushless design as most do and they free spin after a certain speed in which the fan is no longer pulling.

 

[anvrsy red vert]

Van:


Quick question. Whose idea was it to come out with the competition HE and is there any concrete objective data available supporting any increased performance using the 11" SPAL unit vs. the 9" SPAL unit? As always, thanks in advance for your personal and professional opinion.


Barry

 

[Robert M]

Van:
Quick question. Whose idea was it to come out with the competition HE and is there any concrete objective data available supporting any increased performance using the 11" SPAL unit vs. the 9" SPAL unit? As always, thanks in advance for your personal and professional opinion. Barry

Good question Barry, I would like to hear the response also. I remember when Shelby first offering the Shelby/C&R Competition H/E a few years ago, then I saw others listing theirs a few months later, but I too would like to know who was first? and who followed?





R

 

[Robert M]

Double post.

 

[NightRide]

Van:


Quick question. Whose idea was it to come out with the competition HE and is there any concrete objective data available supporting any increased performance using the 11" SPAL unit vs. the 9" SPAL unit? As always, thanks in advance for your personal and professional opinion.


Barry

It's not the size so much but the material core has better cooling if i remember reading it right a few years ago.