I want 14" brakes, I don't want 18" wheels..

[Jimmysidecarr]

OK so what if I want 14" brakes, but I don't want 18" wheels.. So should I just start crying now?
Impossible? Can't be done? You are a CRAZY MAN!

Maybe.. Maybe not.

This is most definitely not a photo shop.

That's right, that is a 4 piston Roush/Alcon 14" Big Brake set up squeezed inside a 17" genuine FRPP R58 95R wheel!!! No grinding, just stick on wheel weights removed... yes it's that close.

Do you realize the implications of this finding?
Well I do, and I can tell you that although 18s are all the rage today in the Cobra wheel fashion world, THEY ARE NOT CHEAP!!! Neither are the tires! I have been pricing both.
Then there is the issue of rotating weight!!! OMG! In order to acquire an 18" wheel that isn't pushing 30 pounds, you have to drop some serious ching!

These wheels I already own, win #!
These wheels weigh 23 pounds, win#2
no need to buy new tires either, win#3
Although everyone says they are old school and totally played out, they are the elusive, unobtainable wheel dream formula, which is LIGHT, STRONG, and CHEAP!!! OK maybe not all that light, but definitely track proven and readily available if barfed. WIN #4

Here's the question:

Who among us is currently running a BIG BRAKE kit inside a 17" wheel?
How do you like it?
Which wheels did you use?( I hear CCWs clear w/ a spacer in some cases)
Did you track with them?
Which caliper and rotor combo is it?
(Trackers)Did your pad and rotor life get extended?(I am using up pads and cracking rotors more rapidly that I would like)
NOTE 03/04 Cobra wheels don't fit.

More brake porn:

A Baer 6 piston 13.5" kit inside an R58!

A Baer/Alcon 4 piston 14" inside an R58:

The Baer/Alcon caliper & rotor alone:

Clearance:

Clearance:

I have posted this in Roadside also( at 2:29 in the AM..LOL!:bash because I would like some feed back on this and there is just a tad more traffic there than here. http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...akes-i-dont-want-18-wheels-2.html#post9749748

Go easy on the R58 hating.:dw:

 

[TXPD]

The Cobra R R58 wheels will clear the Brembo 14" stuff. Barely, but it clears

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

The Cobra R R58 wheels will clear the Brembo 14" stuff. Barely, but it clears

Really? Which 14" Brembo stuff?

Do you think it clears the Vintage Venom F14 Brembo stuff?
I think the one Brian Phillips from Rehagen Racing said he tried was in the F50 Brembo family.

 

[AnaheimE]

Have they been tested under a heat cycle? I wonder how much expansion there is.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Have they been tested under a heat cycle? I wonder how much expansion there is.

I suspect under 3mm since that is the minimum clearance recommended.

 

[Ryan]

I'm assuming those are 17x9s?

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

My 14'' brake kit fit on my stock 98 wheels. i have the baer 4 piston caliper with the 2 piece 14'' rotor. the clearance was tight but it did fit.. I believe the stock 98 wheel and the 95R wheels are very similiar.. Here is a pic on my 18'' HRE's

[/IMG]

 

[wheelhopper]

Jimmy, though I have never run a 17" wheel with my 14" brake kit, I do have the Roush/Alcon kit in your first photo. Since one of your reasons for keeping the 17s is partly for cost of the wheel/tires, I would not recomend that brake kit. Currently Stage 3 is the only supplier of rotors for that kit, and they are $600 a pair. I would find another kit that has a cheaper rotor price.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I'm assuming those are 17x9s?

Yes 17x9 FRPP R58 95 Cobra Rs.

Jimmy, though I have never run a 17" wheel with my 14" brake kit, I do have the Roush/Alcon kit in your first photo. Since one of your reasons for keeping the 17s is partly for cost of the wheel/tires, I would not recomend that brake kit. Currently Stage 3 is the only supplier of rotors for that kit, and they are $600 a pair. I would find another kit that has a cheaper rotor price.

Do not worry, That is an issue that has come up quite a bit since the Alcon 14" rotor is very expensive to replace. They are an incredible, very high quality rotor.

It appears on the Stage3 site that they are now using a Baer rotor instead of the Alcons that they used to use.

I have also learned that with a small amount of modification, I don't know if it is shimming or trimming(EDIT it's trimming) of the caliper mounting brackets, to center the caliper over the rotors, an inexpensive yet very robust and readily available GT500 rotor can be adapted to this application with very little dicking around.

 

[gcassidy]

I agree Jimmy, that 18's are out of some of our budgets. But then, in my case, so are 14" brakes.
I'm just gonna have to get the best out of what I have.
But I hope you find some you like. Keep us posted.

And the '98 wheels are similar to '95R in that they clear the 2KR Brembos, but they are 8", not 9".

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

The Cobra R R58 wheels will clear the Brembo 14" stuff. Barely, but it clears

Did you get to drive around with it?
Did you do any tracking with it?

Is heat still reduced even though the rotor vent exits are close to the wheels?

Since a 14" set up operates cooler than the 13s anyway, I'm thinking that the heat should not be an issue on a well vented set up, even WITH a tighter 17" wheel.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I agree Jimmy, that 18's are out of some of our budgets. But then, in my case, so are 14" brakes.
I'm just gonna have to get the best out of what I have.
But I hope you find some you like. Keep us posted.

And the '98 wheels are similar to '95R in that they clear the 2KR Brembos, but they are 8", not 9".

Thanks Greg!:rockon:

On the 98 Cobra 17x8 wheel clearance questions on one of the other forums, I can't remember if it was CC or Corral, a guy said that the 98 rim has an inside diameter reducing feature similar to the 03/04 Cobra wheels near the spokes and because of that the Alcon 14" kit did not clear.
(EDIT)Yet in this thread we already have one member state that they do fit.
This would be great for Fox guys running SN95 spindles who don't want to run 275 tires but who do want 14" brakes.

No question they clear the Y2KR 13" set up, in fact I believe they are the only 17x8 Cobra wheel that does.

 

[gcassidy]

Makes sense. I use mine for my RA1 rain tires.
I can measure if anyone is really interested.

 

[wheelhopper]

Do not worry, That is an issue that has come up quite a bit since the Alcon 14" rotor is very expensive to replace. They are an incredible, very high quality rotor.

It appears on the Stage3 site that they are now using a Baer rotor instead of the Alcons that they used to use.

I have also learned that with a small amount of modification, I don't know if it is shimming or trimming of the caliper mounting brackets, to center the caliper over the rotors, an inexpensive yet very robust and readily available GT500 rotor can be adapted to this application with very little dicking around.

I am aware of the Baer rotors that Stage 3 is using. They are the ones that they want the big $ for. I believe they also are drilled. I used the original rotors that came with the kit for about 6 events before I got one that developed a small crack across the entire brakeing surface of the rotor. Even those were $400 a set.

I have heard the same thing about moding the mount to use a GT500 rotor. A guy on CC offered to do it for me for a reasonable price. When I contacted him the price was $350...............no thanks, I'll figure it out myself.

If I find the time over the next few days, I'll see if my '95 R wheels will clear the Alcon kit on my Terminator.

 

[cobra-boss]

Jimmy,

To use GT500 rotors the mounting brackets need to be trimmed 1/4"-3/16", this moves the caliper outboard.

Jim

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Jimmy,

To use GT500 rotors the mounting brackets need to be trimmed 1/4"-3/16", this moves the caliper outboard.

Jim

Excellent I have been chomping at the bit to find out that info!! Thank you VERY much!

Do you think that would put the caliper too close to the spokes?
That is actually my final worry because my intent is to use GT500 rotors.

 

[cobra-boss]

"Do you think that would put the caliper too close to the spokes?" Nope the clearance is just about the same as the 00R brembo maybe a 1mm-2mm closer to the spokes, here is a pic of my buddies car with the GT500 rotors and 95R(AFS) wheel

 

[cobra-boss]

Jimmy,

Here is a pic of the brackets after we milled them down with the GT500 rotors, you can see the shim/washer between the mounting bracket and the spindle. The shim/washer my be needed even if you use the Roush rotor... the caliper just need to be centered over the rotor. We milled the mounting brackets down just a bit more then they needed to be so we would use a shim or 2 because of production tolerances.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Jim, Thank you so much for sharing all these pics and information!

How long ago did you pick these up?
I'm thinking it was when they were still using the Phenolic Caliper and the genuine Alcon rotors. Is that correct? Or are those Aluminum Calipers?

It looks like stage3 motorsports is using an Aluminum Roush/Alcon type B now and have moved to Baer rotors. Your calipers look a little different than what's on the stage3 web site. Do you think the Aluminum Type B versions will still have the clearance?

A lot of folks are asking me about the ability to keep them cool with the vents so close the the inner rim.
You've been running these a little while now haven't you?
Any comments you can make about brake heat, pad fade, or rotor cracking?
I would think just being 14s would mean that they run cooler.:shrug:

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Frazier (MFE)posted this on another forum.
This is the interim measure that I will be doing in an attempt to stop any further cracking from occurring, before I can man up the dough and put the 14" set up here.
He says he has not cracked a rotor since he did this mod.
It targets the air only into the center air inlet area of the rotor, instead of some spilling over onto the inner rotor face.