I want 14" brakes, I don't want 18" wheels..

[cobra-boss]

I don't know if they are aluminum or phenonlic, I'm thinking they are Alum. I picked up my set about a year ago and my buddy got his about 2 months ago, and they both look the same to me. The pics above are off my buddys car, also my Rotors are one piece slotted so they may be Alcons.

I only have about 10 mins of open track time on my set, a roller rocker broke and took out my brand new less then 600 mile motor last summer. After that I took the rest of the summer off to rebuild my motor, the car is now up and running but I have not been tracking yet, but do have almost 1k street miles on them. I'm thinking about changing the master cylinder to a 94-95 GT/V6 though, my pedal is a bit soft for my taste (my car is a 94 cobra and has a bigger power booster and different mater cyl vs a GT). If you do a search for Alcon on Corral Rob form V/V was talking about the different master cylinders and boosters and there pedal effort.

My buddy just went open tracking a few weeks ago and said these were the best brakes he has ever driven on and was going MUCH deeper into the braking zone with no fade. Out on the track he was playing with new Skyline and out braking him! He was using 18" FR500 wheels and Grand AM Hoosier slicks.

My gut feeling is that the 14" Alcons will not have a problem keeping cool. V/V chart is showing how much colder they run...350* diffrence vs the 00R is HUGE in my book. And even if the 17" wheels don't "breath" as well as 18" and they are running 600*-700* it is still cooler then the 00R setup.

****I have not tracked my car yet so I don't know what temps I'll be running. ***

What pads are you using with your 00R now? You my want to try some other pads and block off your cooling ducts and run a track day or too before dropping the money on the Alcon kit.

I know a couple of guys running AI and even more open tracking using 13" 00R setup and have never had a problem,... but damn the 14" Alcons look good in a 17" wheel.

Jim

P.S
Just remember I'm not a brake engineer and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I don't know if they are aluminum or phenonlic, I'm thinking they are Alum. I picked up my set about a year ago and my buddy got his about 2 months ago, and they both look the same to me. The pics above are off my buddys car, also my Rotors are one piece slotted so they may be Alcons.

I only have about 10 mins of open track time on my set, a roller rocker broke and took out my brand new less then 600 mile motor last summer. After that I took the rest of the summer off to rebuild my motor, the car is now up and running but I have not been tracking yet, but do have almost 1k street miles on them. I'm thinking about changing the master cylinder to a 94-95 GT/V6 though, my pedal is a bit soft for my taste (my car is a 94 cobra and has a bigger power booster and different mater cyl vs a GT). If you do a search for Alcon on Corral Rob form V/V was talking about the different master cylinders and boosters and there pedal effort.

My buddy just went open tracking a few weeks ago and said these were the best brakes he has ever driven on and was going MUCH deeper into the braking zone with no fade. Out on the track he was playing with new Skyline and out braking him! He was using 18" FR500 wheels and Grand AM Hoosier slicks.

My gut feeling is that the 14" Alcons will not have a problem keeping cool. V/V chart is showing how much colder they run...350* diffrence vs the 00R is HUGE in my book. And even if the 17" wheels don't "breath" as well as 18" and they are running 600*-700* it is still cooler then the 00R setup.

****I have not tracked my car yet so I don't know what temps I'll be running. ***

What pads are you using with your 00R now? You my want to try some other pads and block off your cooling ducts and run a track day or too before dropping the money on the Alcon kit.

I know a couple of guys running AI and even more open tracking using 13" 00R setup and have never had a problem,... but damn the 14" Alcons look good in a 17" wheel.

Jim

P.S
Just remember I'm not a brake engineer and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

LOL! Thanks Jim you have made this thread with the hard facts. I sincerely appreciate it.
I am going to try Frazier's(MFE) duct plate mod before dropping the major ching on the 14s.

Even though I'm not an engineer of any kind I just know that there is not going to be any down side to a 14" kit under a 17' 95R R58 except the initial expense. The maintenance will be cheaper, I have no doubt!
You guys have got me by close to 300 pounds in some cases more.
My car really needs those 14s.

 

[cobra-boss]

After installing the blocking plates you may want to try and shim the duct closer to the rotor by putting some washers between the duct and spindle, I will be doing this before my next track day.

Making the blocking plates I used a alum push plate 3 1/2" x 15" about $10 from a locksmith/building supply company.
1 Cut in half.
2 Remove the hose from the backing plate.
3 Take 1/2 the piece of aulm and hold between the rotor and backing plate
4 looking in with a flashlight from the hose inlet side and move the alum around till you can no longer see the rotor face.
5 trace the outline of the backing plate on the alum
6 cut out and inatall
This took me about 45 mins on the first side and 1/2 the time on the second.



Jim

 

[wheelhopper]

Jimmy,

Here is a pic of the brackets after we milled them down with the GT500 rotors, you can see the shim/washer between the mounting bracket and the spindle. The shim/washer my be needed even if you use the Roush rotor... the caliper just need to be centered over the rotor. We milled the mounting brackets down just a bit more then they needed to be so we would use a shim or 2 because of production tolerances.

I am not an expert in working with metal, but does removing 1/4"-3/16" from the mount compromise its strength? I know the mount has a lot of material, but I would rather be safe than ruin my mounts. I have been needing to do something for rotors since last Nov, when I cracked one of the original Alcon rotors. I just can't seem to part with $600 for 2 rotors.

I am going to try the mod on the cooling duct as well. I have cracked 3 rotors, 1 on my Alcons and 2 with the PBRs, and every time it is on the outer braking surface. If I can get more cool air into the center of the rotor maybe that will solve the problem.


Good thread Jimmy. It may have solved 2 of my braking problems.

 

[cobra-boss]

Sorry I meant to say 1/8"-3/16" needs to be milled off the mounting tab NOT 1/4". The pics above are of milled brackets, I can get the exact measurement if you need.

Jim

 

[wheelhopper]

If you have an exact #, that would be great. I have a friend that is a machinist and would love to get my brakes back together.

 

[racebronco2]

I have been needing to do something for rotors since last Nov, when I cracked one of the original Alcon rotors. I just can't seem to part with $600 for 2 rotors.

I am going to try the mod on the cooling duct as well. I have cracked 3 rotors, 1 on my Alcons and 2 with the PBRs, and every time it is on the outer braking surface. If I can get more cool air into the center of the rotor maybe that will solve the problem.


Good thread Jimmy. It may have solved 2 of my braking problems.

I used to crack my rotors when i had pbr and brake ducts. Since i put brake cooling fans in my brake ducts my rotors and pads last alot longer, but i still had some hairline cracks. The current set-up is cooling ducts getting air from the fog light bezels, brake cooling fans attached to my a-arms with ducts directed between the caliper and the rotor. I have not developed any hairline cracks in my rotors. I am using hawk blacks previously and now hawk blues.

 

[wheelhopper]

Carlos, I would have thought you would be using the DTC 70 or 60 pads. I guess if your brakes are running cooler you don't need as aggressive of a pad.

After shopping around I am ordering a set of GT500 rotors, for under $200. I'll let you guys know when the swap is complete.

 

[gmsux]

I picked up a 14" stoptech kit a while back for only $1250 but, the 2 piece rotors/hats are redonkulously expensive. Something along the lines of $600 a new set if I want to keep a set of rotors and pads together. I wonder if I could fit the GT500 rotors with the stoptech kit? Anyone have an idea on that? The stoptech's are 355X35mm, does anyone have dimensions of the GT500?

14's in a 17" wheel look phenomenal BTW.

 

[racebronco2]

Carlos, I would have thought you would be using the DTC 70 or 60 pads. I guess if your brakes are running cooler you don't need as aggressive of a pad.

After shopping around I am ordering a set of GT500 rotors, for under $200. I'll let you guys know when the swap is complete.

I was running hp+'s that i bought off of ebay, i had bought 3 sets for 135.00. The black and blues i bought from a member on corner-carvers for about 70.00 each set. I do like the black and blues better then the hp+s' (they worked well at the tracks that don't use brakes that much). At the tracks with harder braking zones i just felt more comfortable with the black and blues.

 

[cobra-boss]

Wheelhopper,

I was not able to get the measurements tonight and am leaving town Thurs morning and will be gone till Sun. I will get them when I get back.

Jim

 

[PushinTheLimit]

I'm running the 17" CCW Classics on my vette and everyone with that setup is pretty much SOL on finding a 14" BBK that will work with the wheels. I don't feel comfortable running a huge spacer just to make them work. AP was working on something that would fit the Classics, but I don't think they could get anything going on that.

I've got two sets of Classics in the garage and I too really don't want to have to sell them for 18" wheels to go with a 14" BBK.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I picked up a 14" stoptech kit a while back for only $1250 but, the 2 piece rotors/hats are redonkulously expensive. Something along the lines of $600 a new set if I want to keep a set of rotors and pads together. I wonder if I could fit the GT500 rotors with the stoptech kit? Anyone have an idea on that? The stoptech's are 355X35mm, does anyone have dimensions of the GT500?

14's in a 17" wheel look phenomenal BTW.

WOW That is expensive. Is that for a pair of rotor rings? I wonder if you could do better at Coleman?
I would call these guys.
High Performance Racing Parts, Car Racing Parts, Off Road Auto Racing Parts

On brake components (mostly pads) I have had good luck with these guys too, they are in my old home town of Syracuse, NY.
Discount Performance Brakes - Brake Pads & Brake Rotors- RACEShopper.com

TCE also is a place I hear guys talk about positively.
TCE Performance Products - Producing Winning Results since 1993

Regarding the GT500 rotor I think you will find that although heavy, this is a very robust , high quality rotor that has a long life and is very reasonably priced.
I think we are going to see a lot of people switching, because the only changes needed to accommodate the slightly different offset are (EDIT)machining the radial mount brackets.

I have learned that shimming to center a rotor in it's caliper is wide spread and common place at this level of braking.
I would imagine that racers probably can't wait for special rotors to be made up if they get caught with a short supply.

They are fairly thick @ 1.125"

 

[gmsux]

$600 would be for a complete extra set of 2 piece rotors. I've since read the GT500 rotor is 355X32, my stoptech's are 355X35 but it is common to substitute the 32's because they are cheaper. Possibly using 1mm or .5mm thick Ti plates behind the pad would keep the pisotons in nearly stock configuration. The only thing remaining is the offset. If it works out, I'd have no problem converting my stoptech setup to use GT500 rotors. The stoptech calipers are freakin' nice.

WOW That is expensive. Is that for a pair of rotor rings? I wonder if you could do better at Coleman?
I would call these guys.
High Performance Racing Parts, Car Racing Parts, Off Road Auto Racing Parts

On brake components (mostly pads) I have had good luck with these guys too, they are in my old home town of Syracuse, NY.
Discount Performance Brakes - Brake Pads & Brake Rotors- RACEShopper.com

TCE also is a place I hear guys talk about positively.
TCE Performance Products - Producing Winning Results since 1993

Regarding the GT500 rotor I think you will find that although heavy, this is a very robust , high quality rotor that has a long life and is very reasonably priced.
I think we are going to see a lot of people switching, because the only changes needed to accommodate the slightly different offset are either shimming the radial mount brackets or machining them.

I have learned that shimming to center a rotor in it's caliper is wide spread and common place at this level of braking.
I would imagine that racers probably can't wait for special rotors to be made up if they get caught with a short supply.

They are a fairly thick 1.125"

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

$600 would be for a complete extra set of 2 piece rotors. I've since read the GT500 rotor is 355X32, my stoptech's are 355X35 but it is common to substitute the 32's because they are cheaper. Possibly using 1mm or .5mm thick Ti plates behind the pad would keep the pisotons in nearly stock configuration. The only thing remaining is the offset. If it works out, I'd have no problem converting my stoptech setup to use GT500 rotors. The stoptech calipers are freakin' nice.

How much are just the replacement rings?

 

[gmsux]

~$270 each from MM

 

[99COBRA2881]

Ouch. You could buy two 13" Coleman rings for that price.

Racing and Car Products - Coleman Racing - Brake Rotor, Custom Solid Mount

Also for those looking to space the backing plate out closer to the rotor use a 1.5" long 1/4-20 bolt and a 1/2" spacer. You can find the 5/16" diameter x1/2" spacers at about any hardware store. Install the bolt facing inwards. Bolt heads can be ground down for clearance as needed.

 

[TXPD]

Did you get to drive around with it?
Did you do any tracking with it?

Is heat still reduced even though the rotor vent exits are close to the wheels?

Since a 14" set up operates cooler than the 13s anyway, I'm thinking that the heat should not be an issue on a well vented set up, even WITH a tighter 17" wheel.

I had the 14" F40 Brembo GT kit on the Cobra R. Ran it that way for two years with great success. The wheel clearance was unbelievably tight. But I never had a problem.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I had the 14" F40 Brembo GT kit on the Cobra R. Ran it that way for two years with great success. The wheel clearance was unbelievably tight. But I never had a problem.

THAT IS THE MONEY QUOTE RIGHT THERE!!!:banana::rockon:epper::dancenana:

The brake savings account has now been opened!

Thank you so much to everyone who contributed with either questions or actual experience to help make this big brake thread what it is.
This really made my day!
Next is the little matter of GETTING A JOB AGAIN!!!:rollseyes
I'm all healed up for the most part, I just got to get out there with revised a resume.

 

[gcassidy]

Jimmy, maybe with all the investigative work you've done, you should send your resume to a brake manufacturer. :lol1: