Importance of cooling Mods..

[Zeke0123]

Ok it's been a while for me and the comparison could be a little off but on my Grand National cooling was the single most important thing you did..evey bit of cooling from "Ram Air" kits forcing air on to the intercooler to bigger intercoolers to liquid intercoolers added major HP.

It was as important if not more so than a bigger turbo headers downpipe etc etc..I'm not seeing intercoolers advertised as power increasers here am I missing something? Or is it because it's all being related to IAT drops and not actual horepower increases.

 

[svt1111]

Cooling mods are essential. I noticed you posted a question in my thread asking what my cooling mods were.

They're important with these cars since the computer will dump timing when IAT2's get too high, thus killing power. The stock heat exchanger isn't fit to cool a CR80 dirtbike. They're puny.

Lot of guys are using the fan assisted H/E now. I got a simple, old fashioned one, but its big. It holds a lot more coolant than the factory one as such, which helps remove more heat.

 

[XtremeS10]

Don't forget you can add more timing with a cooler charge, and on top of that you cut down engine wear, you'll increase engine life, and cut down on cool down times if you track the car or drag it....

 

[Zeke0123]

Cooling mods are essential. I noticed you posted a question in my thread asking what my cooling mods were.

They're important with these cars since the computer will dump timing when IAT2's get too high, thus killing power. The stock heat exchanger isn't fit to cool a CR80 dirtbike. They're puny

Lot of guys are using the fan assisted H/E now. I got a simple, old fashioned one, but its big. It holds a lot more coolant than the factory one as such, which helps remove more heat.

Yes the pulled timing is always what I hear about and having the ecu do that sucks..but the "old school" in me doesn't understand why people dont talk about 40 degree cooler charge temps adding power..colder air = more power guess I just wonder why no one has put a number to it..when I went from stock to a bigger air to air on my GN I gained 25 rwhp then when I went liquid it was 60..

Just seems odd to me.

 

[HARLEYDEALER]

Yes the pulled timing is always what I hear about and having the ecu do that sucks..but the "old school" in me doesn't understand why people dont talk about 40 degree cooler charge temps adding power..colder air = more power guess I just wonder why no one has put a number to it..when I went from stock to a bigger air to air on my GN I gained 25 rwhp then when I went liquid it was 60..

Just seems odd to me.

Seems odd to me that you don't understand the guys here on this forum and a lot of others GT500 forums we all under stand cooler = more power and what heat soak does to our power, so when we talk about cooler IAT temps, we don't have to talk about horse power gain it would be redundant!

 

[Zeke0123]

Seems odd to me that you don't understand the guys here on this forum and a lot of others GT500 forums we all under stand cooler = more power and what heat soak does to our power, so when we talk about cooler IAT temps, we don't have to talk about horse power gain it would be redundant!

I'm sure that's true for a lot on this board but I've seem a few other members question why you need to add a bigger better intercooler I realize this isn't some great revelation to most..just wondering why pullies superchargers headers etc etc have an expected hp increase number and yet none of the cooling mods do..not exactly sure why your getting testy HD.

 

[HARLEYDEALER]

I'm sure that's true for a lot on this board but I've seem a few other members question why you need to add a bigger better intercooler I realize this isn't some great revelation to most..just wondering why pullies superchargers headers etc etc have an expected hp increase number and yet none of the cooling mods do..not exactly sure why your getting testy HD.

Sorry, but to me your question came across as we did know the relevance of cooling and heat and what it does to horse power. I agree that some of us come across clueless, but at some point we all were. :beer: Bill

 

[Zeke0123]

Sorry, but to me your question came across as we did know the relevance of cooling and heat and what it does to horse power. I agree that some of us come across clueless, but at some point we all were. :beer: Bill

Thanks HD I'm just trying to get educated on these cars..I guess because the tuning has become so exacting compared to 15 years ago I'm a little confused it seems like most dyno runs are done at optimal conditions so maybe the HEs can't shine.

But I personally would love to see the difference in actual HP between a moderatly modded Shelby with and without one of the high end HEs running at normal operating temps...and it seems to me that even on a stocker these cars get soaked or close to it in about 15 minutes in traffic.

 

[harmon rabb]

Thanks HD I'm just trying to get educated on these cars..I guess because the tuning has become so exacting compared to 15 years ago I'm a little confused it seems like most dyno runs are done at optimal conditions so maybe the HEs can't shine.

But I personally would love to see the difference in actual HP between a moderatly modded Shelby with and without one of the high end HEs running at normal operating temps...and it seems to me that even on a stocker these cars get soaked or close to it in about 15 minutes in traffic.

it's got to be a big difference. before it gets heat soaked, my car feels a LOT faster than after it does.

this is why i'm getting a large fan assisted h/e installed tomorrow, together with some other stuff :banana:

 

[Zeke0123]

I'm sure all the Big Dogs know the scoop.. but us little dog street racer roll racer types might be a lot better off if we bump the HEs up on the priority list...that way the 700 hp monster you build actually has 700 when you need it instead of 650 or less and diminishing as you go...I'm spit balling the numbers of course but I bet it something simular.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Thanks HD I'm just trying to get educated on these cars..I guess because the tuning has become so exacting compared to 15 years ago I'm a little confused it seems like most dyno runs are done at optimal conditions so maybe the HEs can't shine.

But I personally would love to see the difference in actual HP between a moderatly modded Shelby with and without one of the high end HEs running at normal operating temps...and it seems to me that even on a stocker these cars get soaked or close to it in about 15 minutes in traffic.

Been there done that. I have plenty of customers that are daily driver street racing types with stock and or higher horsepower modded cars.

The heat exchanger keeps the downstream air charge to a minimum so that you don't get any spark advance timing retard.

It works on just about any set up. I've even got guys with Saleen's and Roush's running my heat exchanger with great success on the street and the track.

You don't pick up horsepower with a heat exchanger, it enables you to retain and utilize the horsepower the car makes when you want it and or need it! :thumbsup:

 

[Zeke0123]

Been there done that. I have plenty of customers that are daily driver street racing types with stock and or higher horsepower modded cars.

The heat exchanger keeps the downstream air charge to a minimum so that you don't get any spark advance timing retard.

It works on just about any set up. I've even got guys with Saleen's and Roush's running my heat exchanger with great success on the street and the track.

You don't pick up horsepower with a heat exchanger, it enables you to retain and utilize the horsepower the car makes when you want it and or need it! :thumbsup:

I know you have data logged the shit out of your products and it obviously very proven. I just wish there was some way to tell what the net HP loss is for a typical street driven Shelby with the higher charge temp and probably pulled timing..I know you probably couldn't really claim that as a net gain even tho imo it is.

I see quite a few videos of guys street and roll racing and it seems like the Shelby's underwhelm more often than not :dw: I'm getting ready to start hopping up my car and I personally have the HE close to the top of the list.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

I know you have data logged the shit out of your products and it obviously very proven. I just wish there was some way to tell what the net HP loss is for a typical street driven Shelby with the higher charge temp and probably pulled timing..I know you probably couldn't really claim that as a net gain even tho imo it is.

I see quite a few videos of guys street and roll racing and it seems like the Shelby's underwhelm more often than not :dw: I'm getting ready to start hopping up my car and I personally have the HE close to the top of the list.

Your question is really answered by whose tune you are running.

Spark Advance Retard is based on the tune. So for the sake of discussion typical aftermarket tuners will begin to retard spark advance at 135 to 140 or even 150 degrees downstream aka IAT2. The amount of power lost due to spark advance retard once that set parameter is eclipsed is a direct correlation to the spark advance and net power in the tune. The same thing applies to Engine Coolant Temperature and Cylinder Head Temperature. Once certain parameters are eclipsed as set forth in the tune spark advance retard begins.

A stock GT500 tune will begin spark advance retard much earlier than an aftermarket tune.

The amount of spark advance retard for eclipsing these parameters is based on your tune.

I hope that helps. Van

 

[chuckstang]

my car dynoed 483 rwhp with zero cool down, just arrived at the dyno after hour drive, and on to the dyno. This was with a 93 octane tune with jlt

dyno tuner said even back to back to back, power did not drop below that and temps stayed cool relatively speaking and consistent

cooling mods are not needed for street use IMO !

 

[XtremeS10]

my car dynoed 483 rwhp with zero cool down, just arrived at the dyno after hour drive, and on to the dyno. This was with a 93 octane tune with jlt

dyno tuner said even back to back to back, power did not drop below that and temps stayed cool relatively speaking and consistent

cooling mods are not needed for street use IMO !

I disagree I had a hot day when I drove down to Ocean City in my car, and along the way I got into a race, where 2nd gear died around 4k rpm it fell on its face from the timing retard

Even at that, extra cooling never hurt anything, you can get more out of it even still with the timing increases from the cooler temps in my opinion I think it helps the tuner in that manner, so even with a stock setup, bet if you put them back to back, custom tune to custom tune stock vs aftermarket bet the aftermarket would make more power, much more reliable, and in the end better all around....

Hypothetical at least the way I see it anyways :beer:

 

[loweredf1]

i raced my car stock at the drags ran 13.2 let car cool down for an hour or little more went back out spun off the line and still ran 12.7. i believe they can benefit greatly even at stock levels.

 

[evasive]

my car dynoed 483 rwhp with zero cool down, just arrived at the dyno after hour drive, and on to the dyno. This was with a 93 octane tune with jlt

dyno tuner said even back to back to back, power did not drop below that and temps stayed cool relatively speaking and consistent

cooling mods are not needed for street use IMO !

That being said, you don't know what the car would have done with cooling mods since you don't have any, right? If you had before/after results that showed no benefit, then that would be something to consider. Understand you said "IMHO"...but still... Note the OP lives in CA...temps there might be a little different than MA.

 

[chuckstang]

I disagree I had a hot day when I drove down to Ocean City in my car, and along the way I got into a race, where 2nd gear died around 4k rpm it fell on its face from the timing retard

Even at that, extra cooling never hurt anything, you can get more out of it even still with the timing increases from the cooler temps in my opinion I think it helps the tuner in that manner, so even with a stock setup, bet if you put them back to back, custom tune to custom tune stock vs aftermarket bet the aftermarket would make more power, much more reliable, and in the end better all around....

Hypothetical at least the way I see it anyways :beer:

I was refering mostly to cars with stock blower and boost, sorry bout that.

I have never noticed any heat soak with mine, but this is why I have not put a pulley on it yet. Afraid of the heat!

 

[XtremeS10]

I was refering mostly to cars with stock blower and boost, sorry bout that.

I have never noticed any heat soak with mine, but this is why I have not put a pulley on it yet. Afraid of the heat!

I still think at that, it couldn't hurt, and you could tune the car to get a little more out of it. No one has done the cooling mods on a completely strictly stock car as far as I have seen so we may never know, but I just don't see anything but benefits to a cooler intake charge, cooler ambient temps, and cooler temps under load.

Do you need it for a stock car? Nah probably not, does it hurt? Nah probably would help pick up some power and run a little stronger :beer:

 

[Seahorse]

Just read about an upgraded intercooler (yes intercooler, not H/E) on another board...Google "VTS Intercooler" and go to the first hit that comes up (StangMafia forum) very interesting reading.