So here is what I found out yesterday at the dyno: I had the same tuner on two different dynos ( unfortunately). The first dyno was a mustang dyno and the car made 491/508 w/0 meth or anything. Last night was a dynojet and I am not pleased with the results. Started off on the dyno jet at 426 made it up to 461 then we tried the meth and went down to 408, WTF! Basically what I got talking with the tuner is the car wants more boost because we just were not making more power when adding timing. You could see the meth working on the graphs but my thought is the Eaton just does not perform well enough to benefit from meth. Final thought from this guy for Eaton equipped cobras that want to run meth/water injection is if you want to gamble with 300-400$ go to the casino because thats what you are doing, I find its hit or miss. You may benefit and you may not. As for this guy, bye, bye Eaton hello KB or Whipple w/ meth injection! Sincerely, frustrated in Michigan!
Meth as octane booster. TRUTH.
- Thread starter 04SolidSnake
- Start date
Sorry to hear that dude. You are spraying Pre-blower right?
Yes. I talked with numerous people about spraying pre blower including with techs. at Snow Performance and they raved of their added HP gains as it has the same effect rather pre or post blower. You could visually see it working on the dyno graph. the IATs were down, it just did not benefit due to the lack of power to timing issues, i guess. I dont know. Im just floored by losing 89 hp on meth. I just dont quite get that.
How did you make less power on a dynojet compared to a mustang dyno with the same mods? It seems strange your car loss power with added timing. I'm confused to say the least...
You and me both. As I said though, same tuner just different dynos. I am baffled! I am going to buy a thump rr tensioner and go from there, I guess its possible that i am losin a little bit for boost somewhere.
Methanol Injection - Beat The Heat - GM High-Tech Performance Magazine
read this article. it sure does lower iat2s.
read this article. it sure does lower iat2s.
Did you guys try and tweak the settings on the controler at all to see if your results differed? Are running a stage 2 with the progressive MAF controler or are you running a boost referenced controler? The reason I asked is because I almost suspect that you could have possibly experienced combustion chamber quench in where the mist is too heavy and not atomizing enough. Which also brings me to my other questions which are how much boost are you making and what size nozzle are you running. I know the kit comes with a 3, 5, and 6.
Actually, that sounds exactly correct. The tuner was telling me that in a round about way, I just did not comprehending the way he was explaining it. He told me the engine needed more boost. The tuner just was not making more power as he added timing so that is why he wants me to put more boost to it. I dont think he knew I had 2 other nozzles with me. I talked with the snow tech. and he said "quench" as well. The tech was very helpful and gave me further tuning options. We will try it again with a smaller nozzle. I started with the 475-600 (no.6) nozzle and I should have started with the no.5 nozzle. The tech at snow said they basically start with a 12.0 a/f ratio (w/ no meth at this point) get the car dialed in and then hit it with meth and at that point the graphs should not change much at all. He then adds his timing from there. When we hit the meth we got the jagged a/f line that the tuner just could not clean up and as a result stalled the tuning process. I plan to go for 17lbs on my ported eaton, get the KB BAP, put the thump rrr tensioner ( to ensure there is no belt slip) put fresh plugs (gapped @ .028) along with fresh oil and give
it another shot late this fall armed with more knowledge of tuning with meth! I was tuning with 15.15 lbs and he was using a a/f ratio of 11.7 to start with.
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I agree with Co-brat. It sounds like you were injecting too much, bringing it in too quickly, or a combination of both. When you're ready to go back to the dyno, try dialing it back a bit. It took me awhile to get my system dialed in, too. Don't give up!
Prior to jumping off of the Turbo V6 Buick ship, I did extensive research spraying meth into the up pipe just prior to the TB. For years I ran 110, 112, 116 race fuels with decent power results. Without taking up too much time here preaching to the choir, the meth injection made substantialy more power across the board. With meth I was able to run slightly more psi, but significantly more timing without detonation. HOWEVER....IMO there are two downsidse to injecting meth...
1)the learning cuve associated with when and how fast a progressive systems starts and ramps the meth up is intensive. Tuning a motor that your injecting meth into takes a lot longer to get fine tuned. I've made dozens and dozens of 1/4 hits fine tuning a new tune. Initially starting with when the meth turns on, followed by how fast it ramps up, and how hard the pump drives the meth. You can put a motor to sleep if your too aggressive on either, or walking on ragged edge if not fast enough. With a simplistic ECM system that's not using a wide band to pull fuel real time in closed loop, your chances of getting the tune spot on quickly is pure luck at best. IMO you basically tuning the motor lean under non-sprayed conditions, then relying on the meth to bring the AFR back up to where it's making safe power. Now then, when the pump motor grows weak, or some other annomily takes place, your tune is all over the place unless your ECM is able to add enough gas to compensate for the lean condition. At best you have enough fuel for the burn, just not enough octane to keep detonation under control.
2) Your motor is at the mercy of the pump. If the pump takes a crap at WOT, you have spilt seconds to pull your foot out of it before your a member of the DOTC club....ask me how I know this
I've had 2 pumps fail under WOT conditions, the first was far more catrostrophic to the motor than the second. As a fail safe, with the second pump I had my system wired up to monitor the pressure of the meth delivery. If the systems detected a low pressure condition, the ECM would pull major timing, and a red LED light would illuminate in my face. The second time a pump failed I only lost a head gasket due to increased cylinder pressure from detonation....not ventilating 4 pistons and a broken crank.
Yes meth is cheap, and the systems out there do work, and well at that. As a result of a slow learning curve, I invested way too much $$$ into motors to balance out the benefits of spraying meth. With that said, I switched over to E85 for the same benefits. This time around though, if one or both of my pumps fail or grow weak, the chance of really hurting my motor are more slim. I'm only having to tune for 1 fuel, and keeping it simple stupid has become my personal motto the older/wiser I get. The Buick and import communities have been spraying meth for almost a decade now. Jump on any of their forum boards and see what they are switching over to, or getting rid of.
In closing, if your using a stand alone fuel management system with real time SFI , individual cylinder tuning knock sensors, and wide band, then it's likely it won't take you near as long to get your tune spot on.
Good luck!
1)the learning cuve associated with when and how fast a progressive systems starts and ramps the meth up is intensive. Tuning a motor that your injecting meth into takes a lot longer to get fine tuned. I've made dozens and dozens of 1/4 hits fine tuning a new tune. Initially starting with when the meth turns on, followed by how fast it ramps up, and how hard the pump drives the meth. You can put a motor to sleep if your too aggressive on either, or walking on ragged edge if not fast enough. With a simplistic ECM system that's not using a wide band to pull fuel real time in closed loop, your chances of getting the tune spot on quickly is pure luck at best. IMO you basically tuning the motor lean under non-sprayed conditions, then relying on the meth to bring the AFR back up to where it's making safe power. Now then, when the pump motor grows weak, or some other annomily takes place, your tune is all over the place unless your ECM is able to add enough gas to compensate for the lean condition. At best you have enough fuel for the burn, just not enough octane to keep detonation under control.
2) Your motor is at the mercy of the pump. If the pump takes a crap at WOT, you have spilt seconds to pull your foot out of it before your a member of the DOTC club....ask me how I know this
I've had 2 pumps fail under WOT conditions, the first was far more catrostrophic to the motor than the second. As a fail safe, with the second pump I had my system wired up to monitor the pressure of the meth delivery. If the systems detected a low pressure condition, the ECM would pull major timing, and a red LED light would illuminate in my face. The second time a pump failed I only lost a head gasket due to increased cylinder pressure from detonation....not ventilating 4 pistons and a broken crank.Yes meth is cheap, and the systems out there do work, and well at that. As a result of a slow learning curve, I invested way too much $$$ into motors to balance out the benefits of spraying meth. With that said, I switched over to E85 for the same benefits. This time around though, if one or both of my pumps fail or grow weak, the chance of really hurting my motor are more slim. I'm only having to tune for 1 fuel, and keeping it simple stupid has become my personal motto the older/wiser I get. The Buick and import communities have been spraying meth for almost a decade now. Jump on any of their forum boards and see what they are switching over to, or getting rid of.
In closing, if your using a stand alone fuel management system with real time SFI , individual cylinder tuning knock sensors, and wide band, then it's likely it won't take you near as long to get your tune spot on.
Good luck!
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