Methanol and KB's/Whipples?

[dragonlightning]

Any one run meth and screw style blowers?

I'm thinking the rotors are covered in a teflon like coating (i think), wouldn't the meth eat away at that?

Any thought?

 

[Jockcobra]

I used meth on my 2.2L KB for about 5 months. The rotors looked fine when I did my engine rebuild.

 

[Bullseye96]

No, the Methanol will not harm the rotors. I confirmed this with Kenne Bell before installing my meth kit. I inspected my rotors after running the meth for about 12k miles and they are in perfect shape. In fact the whole engine was immaculate inside because of the W/M injection.

 

[dragonlightning]

No, the Methanol will not harm the rotors. I confirmed this with Kenne Bell before installing my meth kit. I inspected my rotors after running the meth for about 12k miles and they are in perfect shape. In fact the whole engine was immaculate inside because of the W/M injection.

thats good to know.

What about chances of ignition of meth while being compressed by the rotors? basically turing the blower into a combustion chamber?

What ratio water to meth are you running?

 

[Bullseye96]

it won't ignite before the combustion chamber. The w/m is so cool and it's purpose is to prevent detonation so you won't have to worry. I'm running a 50/50 mix but I'm going to pose the question in another thread later about running straight meth. Any worries that you may have about runability, running out of meth, cost of running methanol, etc. just toss those out the window. Run the meth in your washer fluid reservoir and you can use the low fluid indicator for your meth level. Basically you'll be able to run 1 tank of meth to 1 tank of fuel. I love this stuff. It's the shit for all FI applications.

 

[dragonlightning]

it won't ignite before the combustion chamber. The w/m is so cool and it's purpose is to prevent detonation so you won't have to worry. I'm running a 50/50 mix but I'm going to pose the question in another thread later about running straight meth. Any worries that you may have about runability, running out of meth, cost of running methanol, etc. just toss those out the window. Run the meth in your washer fluid reservoir and you can use the low fluid indicator for your meth level. Basically you'll be able to run 1 tank of meth to 1 tank of fuel. I love this stuff. It's the shit for all FI applications.

I agree, but in no other application does the meth actually come in contact with any moving part until it gets to the cylinder.

Also i'd be worried the aftercooler would condense it back to solid drops..

 

[DaveHutch]

i want to do this with my whipple. how much does it help, and how do you actually tap( or where rather) right into the IC manifold?

 

[SVTBMG]

it is a great mod. I have it on my car, but the issue i have is that my COP's may be to weak to light the mixture off with the increase in timing. No matter what I could not get the power to come up after running 28 degrees of timing, so i spoke to a tuner who has a lot of experience with it and he told me the issue is weak coil packs. He has seen it on several cobras with stock coils. So I have to pony up the cash to get some good ones. This is something you should be prepared for. Anyone that says it doesnt work on our cars that tried and got no power gains likely had this ignition issue. You will not see IAT temp reduction when putting the Nozzle before the blower but it still will give you the octane knock prevention and cool the cylinder temps a lot. It is way cheaper then running race gas for high boost and timing applications in the long run. Meth is cheap.

 

[Mike_Galimi]

No worries with the Meth through a Kenne Bell/Whipple. It has been done quite a bit over the past few years.

 

[2Marauders]

i want to do this with my whipple. how much does it help, and how do you actually tap( or where rather) right into the IC manifold?

Installing with a centrifugal is simple, it should be after the intercooler, preferrably after the MAF, before the throttle body and before the IAT sensor.

Installation with a roots/TS is a little more complicated. The best way is to install two nozzles into the bottom of the manifold, after the intercooler (naturally this is before the IAT sensor). Two nozzles because the spacing between nozzles and ports is more equal than with 1 nozzle. Some people install the nozzle before the blower, if it is before the throttle body it doesn't require a solenoid valve but if it's after the throttle body a solenoid valve is needed. That way when the TB is closed the engine vacuum doesn't suck water/meth through the system and potentially hydro-lock the engine. Another approach some people use is to mount the nozzle as close as possible to the rotors so it provides a little cooling to the rotors. Too far away and the water is already vaporized so the cooling effect doesn't benefit the rotors as much. I guess the optimal approach would be 3 nozzles, 2 in the bottom of the manifold and 1 just before the rotors.

Injecting before the intercooler is not the preferred method, but some people do it and have positive results. Thermodynamic properties of the water/meth injection system are optimized by injecting post-intercooler. Injecting pre-IAT sensor is important so the tune can pull timing based on IAT, that way the chances of blowing an engine are reduced if the system runs dry or some other problem occurs (leaks, pump, etc). Injecting post-MAF is important because the water/meth can affect the MAF readings.

 

[dragonlightning]

Installing with a centrifugal is simple, it should be after the intercooler, preferrably after the MAF, before the throttle body and before the IAT sensor.

Installation with a roots/TS is a little more complicated. The best way is to install two nozzles into the bottom of the manifold, after the intercooler (naturally this is before the IAT sensor). Two nozzles because the spacing between nozzles and ports is more equal than with 1 nozzle. Some people install the nozzle before the blower, if it is before the throttle body it doesn't require a solenoid valve but if it's after the throttle body a solenoid valve is needed. That way when the TB is closed the engine vacuum doesn't suck water/meth through the system and potentially hydro-lock the engine. Another approach some people use is to moung the nozzle as close as possible to the rotors so it provides a little cooling to the rotors. Too far away and the water is already vaporized so the cooling effect doesn't benefit the rotors as much. I guess the optimal approach would be 3 nozzles, 2 in the bottom of the manifold and 1 just before the rotors.

Injecting before the intercooler is not the preferred method, but some people do it and have positive results. Thermodynamic properties of the water/meth injection system are optimized by injecting post-intercooler. Injecting pre-IAT sensor is important so the tune can pull timing based on IAT, that way the chances of blowing an engine are reduced if the system runs dry or some other problem occurs (leaks, pump, etc). Injecting post-MAF is important because the water/meth can affect the MAF readings.

This is my train of thought exactly..

 

[Bullseye96]

I wanted to do a 2 or 3 nozzle setup for my build, but with periodic maintenance required on the nozzles, placing them in the lower manifold causes a problem for me. It would require alot of work to remove the nozzles. I have kicked around all of the best locations for the w/m mounting and landed on the same idea as the 3 nozzle setup. Unfortunately I won't be doing this, so I'll be making my power with the spray before the blower.

 

[dragonlightning]

The reason i'm interested so much, is we were able to run 29PSI on pump gas with pure meth and make 570awhp on an Evo we just built!!

I would love not to have to run C16 all the time..

 

[2Marauders]

I wanted to do a 2 or 3 nozzle setup for my build, but with periodic maintenance required on the nozzles, placing them in the lower manifold causes a problem for me. It would require alot of work to remove the nozzles. I have kicked around all of the best locations for the w/m mounting and landed on the same idea as the 3 nozzle setup. Unfortunately I won't be doing this, so I'll be making my power with the spray before the blower.

I wasn't aware of any needs for periodic maintenance. But if you pick the wrong size to put in and have to pull it all apart to swap nozzles that would really be a PITA.

 

[Om3ga47]

I am thinking meth soon as well. I have a question,I am sure everyone here so far has seen the intake mani design. The air has to compress into the box of an intake manifold and is pushed overhead into the cylinders....now considering it is a liquid,would not the meth and water begin to puddle? Not to mention being compressed through the intercooler would slow it down. Just a curious question....

 

[Roushman]

op:

 

[Bullseye96]

I wasn't aware of any needs for periodic maintenance. But if you pick the wrong size to put in and have to pull it all apart to swap nozzles that would really be a PITA.

^ Well in the Snow manual it tells you that periodic cleaning of the screen within the nozzle is necessary. I know this is true for a fact because after I installed the kit, 2 days later the line blew out. It was because the screens were clogged with crap. This was mainly because the washer bottle was used, but this is an issue even with distilled water and a new reservoir. Since I'm still going to use the washer bottle I bought a new one for my build. With perfect conditions it's a rarity, but still necessary.

I am thinking meth soon as well. I have a question,I am sure everyone here so far has seen the intake mani design. The air has to compress into the box of an intake manifold and is pushed overhead into the cylinders....now considering it is a liquid,would not the meth and water begin to puddle? Not to mention being compressed through the intercooler would slow it down. Just a curious question....

The atomization is so fine that unless the control is spraying too much you won't have any puddling. The only "puddling" I saw was in the intake tube from SMALL droplets of water that dripped after I turned off the car. As far as the intercooler, if it's the PD heat exchanger type it is very beneficial and will not clog the unit. Again the atomization of the mix is super fine. Through a centri IC though, I believe it is less beneficial as stated above, but will not clog. Always best to run after the IC regardless.

 

[2Marauders]

^ Well in the Snow manual it tells you that periodic cleaning of the screen within the nozzle is necessary. I know this is true for a fact because after I installed the kit, 2 days later the line blew out. It was because the screens were clogged with crap. This was mainly because the washer bottle was used, but this is an issue even with distilled water and a new reservoir. Since I'm still going to use the washer bottle I bought a new one for my build. With perfect conditions it's a rarity, but still necessary.

I guess I was lucky, ran mine 3 years and never touched it. But I did put it together with all brand new parts.

 

[Bullseye96]

Yeah, the new parts must have helped. I didn't even think about all that trash in my washer bottle. That experience has just put a little fear into me. I'd still LOVE to run it after the blower, but Murphy's Law always bites me in the ass

 

[evil04svtcobra]

doesn't it corrode your cylinders? bottom line your still putting water inside your engine right?

and the twin screws inside our superchargers, i have a question. somone once told me the "screws" are so close you couldn't put a blade of grass between them. if this is true how do you compress a liquid between these screws?

and p.s. if this is a stupid question i am sorry