misinformation

[Fiveohdean]

please, keep bringing the bs arguments in, it only makes you look stupid.... Surface area has nothing to do with it. This is facts.

That's got to be the worst case of foot in mouth disease I've seen in a long time.

Dino S. - Next time you might want to read more than one paragraph in the physics book. You appear to quite unaware of several major components of rubber friction including adhesion, deformation, tearing & wear all of which are contact patch size dependent. You are right that surface area does not affect static or kinetic friction, which will only be usefull information if at your local track your friends push your car down the strip with the brakes locked. If you race at a track like the rest of where the tires roll you might want to read the rest of the physics book.

 

[01L2Cobra]

What do you guys expect from DinoS he has a Laser Red 96 Cobra that bone stock makes 370 RWHP, 321 TQ.
(look at sig) http://www.austinareastangs.com/aassite2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=25409

Yet his sig on here states
Laser Red 96 Cobra
S-trim. Underdriven to 6 psi. 370 rwhp 321 tq on a mustang dyno. 42#'ers, 255 lph, AFM powerpipe, CCS Tuning superchips tune, bassani catted X, pro-flo's, Steeda radiator, 4.10's, tri-ax, BFG KD's, etc.

What a dumb ass. I have seen his car it looks like a chrome plating shop exploded under his hood now that’s a waist of money.

 

[Hor]

I guessed his age correctly! :loser:

 

[Dino S.]

Keep your words out of my mouth. I didn't say anything about dragsters. Dragsters play a much different game with traction than street cars. mu >2.0 is a whole different game. Obviously, i'm not going to respond to every single post, but i'll try to hit the main points.

That said, here's MY point:

All you idiots out there bitching about ford not putting bigger than 255's are forgetting that svt employs engineers, and they do things like test the car, instead of just sticking to bland all emcompassing rules like "wider is better". There's a god damn reason ford put 255's instead of 275's or bigger. Youre all bitching about wide tires and screaming it in the name of traction. So long as we're talking about street tires, the difference a wider tire makes over a skinnier one is negligible at best. Obviously, if you put skinnies in the back of your mustang, its gonna spin to high heaven, but it has nothing to do with friction. There are other factors, like wrinkle and inertia that are making a much bigger difference when you're making such extreme comparisons (as in between skinnies and drag radials). ALL I was saying was 255's, 275's, no big difference in traction. Dragsters play a different game, and I wasn't referring to any of that. Just because dragsters need 2 ft wide tires doesn't need your mustang needs them. Okay now i'm repeating myself. Oh, and mr dynamic argument. Tires roll? Really? Are you sure? Its still a question of static friction that keeps your tires from slipping on the asphault, and static friction has nothing to do with contact patch, and it never will.

For all of you bringing the personal attacks, keep bringing it. I love em. I'm afraid I wont be responding, though. I will, however, aide 01L2, with a picture of the chrome explosion that occured under my hood.

AHH, MY EYES!!

Oh, and another question for you, 01L2, are you suggesting I am actually trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep in suggesting my "bone stock" 96 cobra put 370 to the wheels (mustang dyno)? Its a joke. I made at least one thread about the blower, the tune, etc. Perhaps you were trying to devalue my statement by calling me a liar? If so, your argument is so weak that i'm not even sure how to classify it. Oh, and a waste of money? Do you not own a mustang? Do you not modify it?

 

[Dino S.]

That's got to be the worst case of foot in mouth disease I've seen in a long time.

Dino S. - Next time you might want to read more than one paragraph in the physics book. You appear to quite unaware of several major components of rubber friction including adhesion, deformation, tearing & wear all of which are contact patch size dependent. You are right that surface area does not affect static or kinetic friction, which will only be usefull information if at your local track your friends push your car down the strip with the brakes locked. If you race at a track like the rest of where the tires roll you might want to read the rest of the physics book.

Good show, thanks for the coherent statement. I agree with you, and I assure you i'm well aware of the topics you mentioned. But no street tire ford is going to put on the 07 cobra will be playing those games (adhesion, etc) to the point that they would even consider changing the rear suspension geometry to fit a wider tire. Clearly, losing a negligible amount of traction by sticking a smaller tire was easily outweighed by the benefits (whatever they may be, might have something to do with turning... *GASP* yes, I said turning ) of using a skinnier tire. That being said, good post.

You all just need to admit that skinnier tires don't fit the testosterone levels you claim to have. Fat tires look better. duh. For once, I commend ford for taking a decent approach to designing a car. Too bad its still not that great. Oh well, they're on the right track.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

Some of you guys need to take the time to read the Q&A link that he provided.

I'm no physics expert by any means but the explanations made sense. The guy said that wider tires make a difference but it's not as much as other factors involved and it's not as much as the typical layman muscle-car enthusiast would like to think.

He stated that weight distribution and tire compound have a much larger effect on traction than tire size. Tire size DOES help but not nearly as much as the other two.

 

[E. Green Cobra]

Some of you guys need to take the time to read the Q&A link that he provided.

I'm no physics expert by any means but the explanations made sense. The guy said that wider tires make a difference but it's not as much as other factors involved and it's not as much as the typical layman muscle-car enthusiast would like to think.

He stated that weight distribution and tire compound have a much larger effect on traction than tire size. Tire size DOES help but not nearly as much as the other two.

Ok then, combined theose little itty bitty tires with the poor weight dist this car will have and honestly look me in the eyes and tell me the car won't have traction problems as Ford has shown it. And I agree, for handlers out there wider is not always better- but this is usually a rim size tire size problem. As in a 255 is probably right at home on a 9inch rim and will out handle the same tire in 275- whats all this mean? Theyre just not using the right size rim, you want the bigger tire you need the bigger rim to fully take advantage of them.

 

[jimwood]

Its a dumb argument. Guys who go to the strip want wider tires, and guys road racing and auto-x want wider tires. Do you see anyone, anywhere advocating for a narrower tire? Nope. So it's this guy against the world. Besides, some people want the bling factor of wider tires too. I can respect that on a 40k vehicle. Everyone wants wider tires. Even if he was remotely close to being right, and he isnt, give the people what they want. 255 suck.

 

[rkomo]

You sir are a big douche and obviously don't know Jack Schitt.......please visit the following link:

http://www.barry.fireflyinternet.co.uk/JackSchitt/Jack_Schit.htm

 

[jshen]

Very Good!

You sir are a big douche and obviously don't know Jack Schitt.......please visit the following link:

http://www.barry.fireflyinternet.co.uk/JackSchitt/Jack_Schit.htm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[93 347 Cobra]

Ok then, combined theose little itty bitty tires with the poor weight dist this car will have and honestly look me in the eyes and tell me the car won't have traction problems as Ford has shown it. And I agree, for handlers out there wider is not always better- but this is usually a rim size tire size problem. As in a 255 is probably right at home on a 9inch rim and will out handle the same tire in 275- whats all this mean? Theyre just not using the right size rim, you want the bigger tire you need the bigger rim to fully take advantage of them.

I never said that the GT500 will hook. Obviously with poor weight distribution and 255s the prospects don't look good. The article says that wider tires DO help but there are other things that affect a vehicle's ability to launch much more than the diameter of the rear tires. Is anyone arguing that the diameter of the rears don't matter?? NO!!!

The width of the rear tires is part of an overall set of variables which all come together in the vehicle's ability to stick a launch. Tire compound and weight distribution just happen to have a greater effect. Does that mean that I could slap some sticky 195s on my Cobra and nail a 1.6 60'?? NO!! It does mean that if I go out and dump a bunch of money on some 10" rims and 315DRs instead of getting smaller/cheaper DRs and focusing on weight distribution I'm wasting my money.

This argument was about launching the car and not about handling.

 

[coco]

I'll use four spares next time I race.

 

[Dino S.]

Its a dumb argument. Guys who go to the strip want wider tires, and guys road racing and auto-x want wider tires. Do you see anyone, anywhere advocating for a narrower tire? Nope. So it's this guy against the world. Besides, some people want the bling factor of wider tires too. I can respect that on a 40k vehicle. Everyone wants wider tires. Even if he was remotely close to being right, and he isnt, give the people what they want. 255 suck.

like everyone else, you sir have missed the point. Of course everyone wants wider tires. The reason for that is a mix of the misinformation cited in this thread, and looks. I have 275's on all four corners of my cobra, and it looks mean as ****. The truth is, howevever, i have no idea if this is the best combo for my car, I bought em cause they look good. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Complaining that ford didn't put wide enough tires on the 07 cobra is slightly ridiculous because you completely discount the numerous factors that go into deciding what tire size works best for the car. Clearly, given the setup, the 255's worked best. And even though there's alot of see no evil, here no evil going on in this thread, the truth of the matter is that with street tires, width plays a negligible role. I know this flies in the face of everything most of you have been believing for years upon years, but its the damn truth. I'm sure if this thread gets big enough some knowledgable respectable individuals will step in and back me up.

Oh, and i'll bet money the 07 cobra pulls better short times than the 03/04 does out of the box. Anyone who wants to take the bet can PM me.

 

[Dino S.]

I'll use four spares next time I race.

you can go ahead and do that, take video, it'll be funny. Unfortunately, the point you would be trying to argue with is not the one i'm making. Grossly altering the width of a tire has other complicating factors that will destroy your traction. Static friction, however, will not change. Rolling on all four spares as opposed to race tires would alter inertia (resistance to motion) in a huge way. This, among multiple other factors, will do alot more in reducing traction than the decreased contact patch/static friction of the tire and pavement. The comparison simply isn't valid. I was making a comparison between say, 245's and 275's. I never said you'd get better traction from a skinnier tire, only that the gain from a larger tire is so negligible its not worth complaining about, unless you are complaining from a standpoint of looks only.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

I never said that the GT500 will hook. Obviously with poor weight distribution and 255s the prospects don't look good. The article says that wider tires DO help but there are other things that affect a vehicle's ability to launch much more than the diameter of the rear tires. Is anyone arguing that the diameter of the rears don't matter?? NO!!!

The width of the rear tires is part of an overall set of variables which all come together in the vehicle's ability to stick a launch. Tire compound and weight distribution just happen to have a greater effect. Does that mean that I could slap some sticky 195s on my Cobra and nail a 1.6 60'?? NO!! It does mean that if I go out and dump a bunch of money on some 10" rims and 315DRs instead of getting smaller/cheaper DRs and focusing on weight distribution I'm wasting my money.

This argument was about launching the car and not about handling.

ill quote this for you so you can read it again. why dont you respond to this one?

 

[Dino S.]

ill quote this for you so you can read it again. why dont you respond to this one?

Are you talking to me? Maybe i'm lost.. but that post more or less agrees with what i've said.

 

[Black96SVT]

Coming from a guy talking about physics you should know that with a larger surface area, 315 - 255, the 315 would produce more. Therefore creating more friction against the surface of the road creating more traction.

When I raze I guess I should remove the 275's i have on the front and swap for some Corolla tires

 

[Dino S.]

Coming from a guy talking about physics you should know that with a larger surface area, 315 - 255, the 315 would produce more. Therefore creating more friction against the surface of the road creating more traction.

When I raze I guess I should remove the 275's i have on the front and swap for some Corolla tires

This is just the kind of idiocy i'm talking about. You're just wrong. Plain and simple wrong.

 

[Black96SVT]

oops ment back, we all know that if the compound is crap the car will run like crab, but if the coumpounds are equally as good or as bad, then the wider tire will be better for the hook up

common sense

 

[Dino S.]

oops ment back, we all know that if the compound is crap the car will run like crab, but if the coumpounds are equally as good or as bad, then the wider tire will be better for the hook up

common sense

I don't think the people arguing against me want you on their side man.. check it:

what you're saying is correct, however, the difference is so small, its considered negligible. IE not worth bitching about. My point is if they stuck 275's on the new mustang, all you fools wouldn't be ranting about how its gonna have terrible traction, yet the difference in traction from that setup and the one its getting is practically nothing.

Can we officially quit whining about the 255's?