MotorTrend - Dyno Battle: GT350, GT350R, and Z/28
- Thread starter ElCoyote
- Start date
Let's not pretend the GT350 is a premium interior. Ford didn't even include the soft plastic upper door panels. Those should be standard on all Mustang trims, but that's for another discussion.
Last edited:
I was shopping for either a ZL1 or GT500 back in July of 2013. I test drove a new ZL1 on the lot. Damn near pulled the trigger. But fortunately a Co worker let me test drive his 13 DIB GT500. I nearly made a huge mistake...
Wow, this thread has turned into a delusional Camaro fan trying to argue that the outgoing ZL1 is superior to a 2012 GT500.
The LS7 engine is a POS in valve train stability. Every guy on every Vette forum knows all about accelerated valve guide wear. I talked to an engine builder about why this would happen and he said that pushrod motors turning higher rpms are really difficult to get the valve train and cam profile dialed in perfectly. He said it would take a ton of computer modeling and testing to get everything right to avoid accelerated wear. GM obviously had budget cutbacks or time constraints and didn't do enough work on this, called it good and released the cars to the consumer. Kinda like they were aware of a 43-cent part that could be replaced to avoid killing people but failed to do so. Kinda like those 1.4M cars that just got recalled today for the 3rd time since 2007 for catching on fire.
Any GM fanboy who thinks their precious Corvette or Camaro is immune to the GM institutional dysfunction is completely delusional. There's a reason there are a number of class-action lawsuits against them.
The LS7 engine is a POS in valve train stability. Every guy on every Vette forum knows all about accelerated valve guide wear. I talked to an engine builder about why this would happen and he said that pushrod motors turning higher rpms are really difficult to get the valve train and cam profile dialed in perfectly. He said it would take a ton of computer modeling and testing to get everything right to avoid accelerated wear. GM obviously had budget cutbacks or time constraints and didn't do enough work on this, called it good and released the cars to the consumer. Kinda like they were aware of a 43-cent part that could be replaced to avoid killing people but failed to do so. Kinda like those 1.4M cars that just got recalled today for the 3rd time since 2007 for catching on fire.
Any GM fanboy who thinks their precious Corvette or Camaro is immune to the GM institutional dysfunction is completely delusional. There's a reason there are a number of class-action lawsuits against them.
Brand loyalty is a funny thing. When I had my Shelby's, I was all about Ford and what they could build. No Camaro was worth it's weight in shit, was my opinion. Fast forward 2 years and about 5 cars later and I now have a 2015 Z/28. After I sold my last Shelby, my plan was to get a '14 GT500. Then I changed my mind and went Mopar. I really wanted a Hellcat, but didn't want to make a $60,000 mistake after never having owned a Challenger. So I bought a '15 Scat Pack. Nice car overall, and would destroy the '15 Mustang GT I test drove. But the damn thing didn't have any handling characteristics at all. So no way was I buying a Hellcat. I like cars that handle too much. Then one afternoon I drove about 2 hours away to a Chevy dealership that had a '15 Z/28 with a big $16,000 off on the windshield. Keep in mind, I have never, ever liked the new Camaro's at all. My Father, who is a die-hard Corvette guy (and recently traded his Z06 on an '11 ZR1) went with me and he about fell over when he saw how good the Z/28 looked in the flesh. I was amazed how a car that looks 90% like any other Camaro could look so stunning in person. Within 3 hours I was driving it home, and as God as my witness, this is far and away the best overall car I have ever owned. Every single thing about the driving experience makes you feel like a Trans Am racer. I've had 6 Corvettes, 2 Vipers, 2 Shelby's and one Challenger (to name a few) and driving the Z/28 is an experience you have to have for yourself and not take someone elses word for it.
If the new GT350 can match that feeling while being a faster car then the Z/28, then Ford as hit a major, major homerun. I get the negativity some of you have for the Z/28. If I still had a Shelby, I'd probably be right here putting everything down about the car too. But, it really is an amazing car to own.
If the new GT350 can match that feeling while being a faster car then the Z/28, then Ford as hit a major, major homerun. I get the negativity some of you have for the Z/28. If I still had a Shelby, I'd probably be right here putting everything down about the car too. But, it really is an amazing car to own.
I love the Z28 and the 1LE, and I like the ZL1. The only problem that I have with the Z28 is the MSRP and the cost of the brakes. At $60K or less though, it's a deal. The LS7 is a great engine with great NA potential, and I think the Z28 looks as mean as any car I've seen.
The thing about the GT350 is that engine. Ford really went out on a limb to do this, and the engine is the closest thing I'll ever get to a Ferrari 458 Speciale engine, which is my absolute favorite. If it weren't for that, I would never even consider paying $60K for a car. I wouldn't do it for a Z28, a twin turbo S550 GT500, a C7 Z51, a Hellcat, nada. The Voodoo and Ford's focus on the overall balance of every single aspect of the car (handling, power, comfort, aesthetics) are the reasons that it has my attention.
It seems people seem to target the cost of the brakes for the Z/28... the same which also come on the GT350... Amazon routinely has great deals on pads... yes, Amazon, factory pads. Plus for you nay-sayers, converting to steelies, actually costs more over the long run.
I made the move to a Z/28, honestly it was the best decision I ever made. A lot of you are keyboard warriors, picking out shortfalls in the Z. You dont know crap about it till you own one and drive it. "I read this, I read that." Cool, you read it on the internet, it must be true.
Show me someone with a closed mind and brand loyalty, and I will show you an idiot. Just because the new GT350 is out, doesnt mean you have to be a nut swinger. Nobody knows what the future holds for it. It could be riddled with problems.
The one thing I know, I wont be knocking the 350 until I experience one for myself. Then I can make claims on the two. Most of you bashing the Z probably havnt even seen one in real life. Continue your unparralled internet knowledge gathering, that way you can continue to make ludacris claims.
Its also threads like this that make me happy I changed seats. It seems the GM crowd over in Camaro5 is more down to earth. They admit short comings and better opponents, minus a couple of people. It seems that most of you lurkers are straight children, you even argue in brand... Cobros vs 5.bros.
I made the move to a Z/28, honestly it was the best decision I ever made. A lot of you are keyboard warriors, picking out shortfalls in the Z. You dont know crap about it till you own one and drive it. "I read this, I read that." Cool, you read it on the internet, it must be true.
Show me someone with a closed mind and brand loyalty, and I will show you an idiot. Just because the new GT350 is out, doesnt mean you have to be a nut swinger. Nobody knows what the future holds for it. It could be riddled with problems.
The one thing I know, I wont be knocking the 350 until I experience one for myself. Then I can make claims on the two. Most of you bashing the Z probably havnt even seen one in real life. Continue your unparralled internet knowledge gathering, that way you can continue to make ludacris claims.
Its also threads like this that make me happy I changed seats. It seems the GM crowd over in Camaro5 is more down to earth. They admit short comings and better opponents, minus a couple of people. It seems that most of you lurkers are straight children, you even argue in brand... Cobros vs 5.bros.
I just looked up a set of replacement discs for a Z28, and they come in at just under $8,000. I know CC discs will last 100K+ miles on the street before needing replacement, but that's a lot to drop in one sitting. Steel rotors will last about half of that with only street driving, so I don't see how this saves any money.
Almost $10,000 for a brake job is hard to swallow for a $75,000 car that you're able to buy for $60,000. The cost of the brakes is disproportionate to the cost of the car, that's my complaint. I think it's an awesome car, but I feel that that's a valid argument.
EDIT: MSRP is $2,410 per rotor for those who have work done by a dealer.
Almost $10,000 for a brake job is hard to swallow for a $75,000 car that you're able to buy for $60,000. The cost of the brakes is disproportionate to the cost of the car, that's my complaint. I think it's an awesome car, but I feel that that's a valid argument.
EDIT: MSRP is $2,410 per rotor for those who have work done by a dealer.
Last edited:
. Too little time in life to waste arguing semantics.
Last edited:
Well how much do you think they'll cost to replace on the GT350R? Also, who said you can't buy steel rotors when they need replaced?
The R doesn't have cc brakes.
Nobody knows how much the GT350 rotors are yet. So, I can't say. I know they won't be cheap, but they won't cost nearly that much. If I was guessing, I'd say they'll probably cost $500ish per corner. I could be way off.
Sure, you can replace them with steel brakes when they're gone. Most people do. Some just take the CC brakes off immediately and change to steel rotors. People surely do talk up those brakes as a Z28 strong point just for most owners to be removing them though. It seems like a silly move on Chevy's part for that car, and that's the main reason that they're priced so high and dealers are losing money on them.
I just realized that you may be thinking that the GT350 and R have CC brakes. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but they don't.
Sure, you can replace them with steel brakes when they're gone. Most people do. Some just take the CC brakes off immediately and change to steel rotors. People surely do talk up those brakes as a Z28 strong point just for most owners to be removing them though. It seems like a silly move on Chevy's part for that car, and that's the main reason that they're priced so high and dealers are losing money on them.
I just realized that you may be thinking that the GT350 and R have CC brakes. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but they don't.
Last edited:
Umm... What?? :dw: The GT350 and GT350R come with steel rotors. It's not going to cost anywhere near as much to maintain brakes on the GT350. You could get a whole aftermarket "big brakes" kit for the cost of just the rotors on a Z/28. And you have an unpleasant surprise waiting for you if you think changing to "steelies" is just a simple rotor swap.
Thank you.
Claims you shouldn't form an opinion of a car until driving it...procerds to form the opinion that Z/28 brakes and GT350 brakes will both cost thousands...
Well done.
Claims you shouldn't form an opinion of a car until driving it...procerds to form the opinion that Z/28 brakes and GT350 brakes will both cost thousands...
Well done.
WTF are you talking about? The GT350 doesn't have the same brakes. You come on here with a pedantic rant and you lead off showing that you are clueless. Nothing wrong with liking the Z, but to lash out on the "nay-sayers" about replacement costs while being completely misinformed is quite ironic.
I paid less than $200 for a GT350 front rotor from Ford.
will it work on the older 07-12 shelby cars if we switch up to the 6 piston calipers?????
indeed nice looking piece......has the off set changed?
hub size? stud size?
The rotor fits the S197 hub in CAD but I have yet to slip it onto the S197 hardware I have waiting for it. The offset is slightly different in that it has moved inward. The steering arm at the front of the spindle is now very close to the inside rotor face. If I have some time tomorrow I'll try to mock everything up. S550 wheel studs are 14mm, up from 1/2" on the S197. Bolt circle is still 5 x 4.5 so the rotors slip right on.
There is such a thing as too much brakes. I'll stick with my Full Tilt Boogie Racing rotors. The rears already bite just a tad too much as it is.
Users who are viewing this thread
