mustang running rough

[AMChrisRose]

A TON of incorrect information in this thread. First things first, if you return the car to stock, the dealer CANNOT tell that the car has been flashed. They will do everything possible to convince you otherwise, but that's complete BS. They can only see whether or not emissions controls have been set and if the P1000 code has gone away. If you go back to stock and complete the drive cycle (approximately 50 miles of driving) the dealer can't tell ANYTHING was done. Not the number of flashes, not the date, none of that. Who starts this crap?

Second, our Bama tuning division is SCT's largest dealer in the world. We sell more custom tunes than anyone else and have thousands of satisfied customers every month.

Here's 50+ pages about us, 2011-specific about our tunes, have fun!
The AM/BAMA/SCT Tune Thread - Ford Mustang Forums

I'd be very curious to see what they say. Of course, they're going to say it was the tune. Luckily, I'm sure everyone reading knows that the 2011 has factory wideband sensors and will adjust to the proper air/fuel ratio that is commanded automatically, so it wouldn't be the tunes air/fuel ratio. And I'm sure they know that we leave the knock sensors on in our tunes, so it wouldn't be too much timing.

OP, definitely keep everyone here in the loop. We're sorry to hear about your issues. Hopefully the dealer will get it solved for you without hassling you too bad for the intake/tune. Some dealers are pretty cool and know that it's not the end of the world and causing huge catastrophic failure, other dealers see it as an easy out and will blame it right away. Good luck, either way we'll be watching.

People who say mail-order tuning is dumb are being mislead by their dyno tuner. Actually, a good mail-order tune from a reputable vendor is better than a local dyno tune from someone who doesn't specialize in Mustangs. I used to run a dyno shop for years, I am completely for a good dyno calibration, however some companies (the popular Mustang tuning companies out here), including ourselves, have such good experience with it and have such a vast database that many times we're able to out-tune a dyno calibration. I find a dyno calibration is really only necessary for piece of mind. New 2011's even allow us to wideband datalog. We can literally do the SAME THING as a dyno tune with one datalog and a few tiny tweaks to our already very-solid mail-order custom tune.

Mail-order tuning gets a bad name with people selling SCT value files with no changes a.k.a. "canned" tunes and thinking it's that simple.

 

[cidsamuth]

mail order tunes are dumb. i cant believe how many people trust them.

Do you write stupid crap on every forum you visit? You're like a virus.

A TON of incorrect information in this thread. First things first, if you return the car to stock, the dealer CANNOT tell that the car has been flashed. They will do everything possible to convince you otherwise, but that's complete BS. They can only see whether or not emissions controls have been set and if the P1000 code has gone away. If you go back to stock and complete the drive cycle (approximately 50 miles of driving) the dealer can't tell ANYTHING was done. Not the number of flashes, not the date, none of that. Who starts this crap?

While you obviously have motive to write something like this, it is consistent with everything I have heard (from Ford techs) and read. Thanks for the info.

 

[Impetuous]

A TON of incorrect information in this thread. First things first, if you return the car to stock, the dealer CANNOT tell that the car has been flashed. They will do everything possible to convince you otherwise, but that's complete BS. They can only see whether or not emissions controls have been set and if the P1000 code has gone away. If you go back to stock and complete the drive cycle (approximately 50 miles of driving) the dealer can't tell ANYTHING was done. Not the number of flashes, not the date, none of that. Who starts this crap?

I didn't know this and I'm very appreciative of you taking the time to expell those internet rumors.

Thank you!

 

[chrisheltra]

Directly quoted from a honest and well respected SVTP member who happens to work in a Ford service department for more years than I care to think about and also is a fellow SVT owner and on top of that hes a good personal friend.

As far as I'm aware, we cannot tell at the shop. The engineers on the other hand have that tech. We had to do it to an F350 that swore up and down that it did not have anything ever done to it.

There are only two ways that we can deny a warranty claim based on demodding. If there is a P1000 code and the shit is really messed up or if they are dumb enough to leave parts in the vehicle. Or, have an engineer come out.

The hard part about reflashing to stock and completing a drive cycle is that it has to be running and I mean running like factory to get the drive cycle to pass. Cats, EGR, EVAP, shit everything.

There is only one way to get around the P1000 code. Kill the battery. If you blow your shit up, turn every electrical component on and wait to call a tow truck. "Wife and kids wanted to listen to the radio while we waited and it must have killed the battery". Dead battery will reset the drive cycle and store code P1000. They can't prove anything at the shop if the battery is dead.

E

 

[5.0jake]

Directly quoted from a well respected SVTP member who happens to work in a Ford service department or more years than I care to think about and also is a fellow SVT owner.

So what I'm gathering from this.
If I'm bone stock other than the tune (maybe a catback;-))and flashing it back to stock I can safely complete the drive cycle without anyone knowing anything?
If the engine isn't running for some crazy reason and needs to be warrantied, have a dead battery on standby or if not drain the current one until it's dead to get rid of the P1000 code.

 

[AMChrisRose]

So what I'm gathering from this.
If I'm bone stock other than the tune (maybe a catback;-))and flashing it back to stock I can safely complete the drive cycle without anyone knowing anything?
If the engine isn't running for some crazy reason and needs to be warrantied, have a dead battery on standby or if not drain the current one until it's dead to get rid of the P1000 code.

Bingo. Furthermore, if it's not running, you can reflash back to stock and THEN kill the battery.

 

[1Quick4.6]

guys this isnt a isolated incident. this is from the ford feild guys mouth...they have a problem with the knock sensors not picking up on cyl number 8, and they have been seeing quite a few cars rolling the compression ring over the piston only on the number 8 cyl with cars with aftermarket tuning. i know of 4 guys with this happening including mine own that ford has denyed warranty of:fm: with 5500mi and has givin others new motors :burn:

 

[1Quick4.6]

Bingo. Furthermore, if it's not running, you can reflash back to stock and THEN kill the battery.

mine was returned to stock un did the battery and drive for sometime and they said they have 2 pages of code showing that there was fuel and timing alterations at some point.

 

[AMChrisRose]

mine was returned to stock un did the battery and drive for sometime and they said they have 2 pages of code showing that there was fuel and timing alterations at some point.

Ask to see those 2 pages. That's complete BS. If you completed the drive cycle, they can't see any lapse of time at all. Even if you didn't complete the drive cycle, all they can see is that SOMETHING happened, not what, or what modifications, etc.

 

[AMChrisRose]

guys this isnt a isolated incident. this is from the ford feild guys mouth...they have a problem with the knock sensors not picking up on cyl number 8, and they have been seeing quite a few cars rolling the compression ring over the piston only on the number 8 cyl with cars with aftermarket tuning. i know of 4 guys with this happening including mine own that ford has denyed warranty of:fm: with 5500mi and has givin others new motors :burn:

How would knock sensor not picking up on cylinder 8 have anything to do with custom tuning? If the air/fuel ratio is correct (which these cars have wideband o2 sensors and will adjust based on feedback from them) and there was no detonation. Curious...

 

[5.0jake]

Ask to see those 2 pages. That's complete BS. If you completed the drive cycle, they can't see any lapse of time at all. Even if you didn't complete the drive cycle, all they can see is that SOMETHING happened, not what, or what modifications, etc.

So even if I do everything right as said above they can still see SOMETHING happened not knowing what it is but Something. Isn't that SOMETHING enough for them to deny coverage :??:

 

[1Quick4.6]

How would knock sensor not picking up on cylinder 8 have anything to do with custom tuning? If the air/fuel ratio is correct (which these cars have wideband o2 sensors and will adjust based on feedback from them) and there was no detonation. Curious...

it doesnt that was my defense. yea if you uped the advance too much and there was some pre ignition issue it wouldn't retard tha cyl but just as much as getting bad gas with the stock tune

 

[Torch10th]

So even if I do everything right as said above they can still see SOMETHING happened not knowing what it is but Something. Isn't that SOMETHING enough for them to deny coverage :??:

Burden of proof. In a court of law this probably wouldn't hold up because there is reasonable doubt involved.

They may be able to see that the computer was reset, but they can't prove what caused it.

For a manufacturer to deny a warranty claim, they must prove that the modification in question directly caused, or contributed to the malfunction that is attempting to be warrantied.

Dealers aren't stupid. They know we modify our cars and so when they see something suspicious like this, they try to use it to their advantage. Knowing, that most people aren't going to take them to court over it. So they say Ford won't warranty it because the ball is in their court.

You know you had modifications on the car, they have a reasonable degree of certainty that you did as well.

Since the repair bill will have more $$$ for them if it's non-warranty, they shoot for that.

If you haven't had a Ford representative themselves tell you they are denying the warranty claim, then your dealer isn't going to bat for you on the engine.

Ford doesn't want poor exposure while they are still in the midst of rebuilding the brand. Just as they don't want a lawsuit on their hands from a guy that does take the issue to court.

If you haven't yet, call customer care. They are nice, helpful and you can circumvent the dealer if you feel they aren't going to bat for you.

However, I will say, if you modify the vehicle, these are the types of situations you can find yourself in. Sometimes you simply do have to pay to play.

 

[5.0jake]

Torch10th, I hear you and understand.
If I were to mod my car and the mod were to cause a powertrain failure it should my responsibility to pay for it. BUT, if I modded my car (tune)and my engine were to grenade due to factory defect, not the mod, I should NOT be responsible to pay for it. I really want a tune(the factory tune is a bit soft) and no other mods(maybe a catback) but don't want to get screwed on this.
This is why I'm asking all of these questions if it's possible to completely hide a tune.

 

[Torch10th]

Torch10th, I hear you and understand.
If I were to mod my car and the mod were to cause a power trainfailure it should my responsibility to pay for it. BUT, if I modded my car (tune)and my engine were to grenade due to factory defect, not the mod, I should NOT be responsible to pay for it. I really want a tune(the factory tune is a bit soft) and no other mods(maybe a catback) but don't want to get screwed on this.
This is why I'm asking all of these questions if it's possible to completely hide a tune.

I think most reasonable people are this way.

The problem isn't necessarily with Ford, but with dealers themselves. Dealers do most of their business on used cars and through the service department. Margins on new cars are too slim to make a ton of money, unless you're a stupid high volume seller.

So what happens is some dealers will feed you a line trying to get you to believe that Ford is denying a warranty claim. So you end up paying their shop rate, which is probably around $100.00 per hour or more, plus their cost for an engine. This hits you on both labor and parts.

Where as, if the dealer spent the time to consult Ford you may find that your warranty may in fact be granted. This means that The dealership no longer gets to sell you a marked up engine, or charge you their standard shop rate. Instead, Ford pays them their base labor rate, and sends them a crate engine plus any needed parts.

The dealership doesn't like this situation, and neither does the tech working on the car who probably gets based almost entirely based on the effective shop rate, instead of a salary or hourly rate.

If there is a situation where a new engine is needed, you better believe Ford itself is going to looking at the vehicle. If a dealer is telling somebody that a car needs a new engine, but a field engineer hasn't come to take a look at the car, run to a different dealer immediately.

Ford is going to do everything in their power to know why that engine failed. Stuff that crops up like this on web forums can damage a reputation real quick. Especially if it starts making it to more mainstream media outlets.

It just comes down to being informed. You should know that a dealer or manufacturer can not deny a warranty claim under the simple presence of aftermarket components. They have to prove that the parts directly caused, or contributed to the failure. As a consumer, you can ask to see this proof.

You can also speak with Ford Customer Care about the issue.

 

[AMChrisRose]

Woah woah woah.. the SOMETHING they could see was simply the lapse in the KAM memory. If you complete the drive cycle, they can't see ANYTHING. I should have been more specific. The only thing they can see is that the emissions heaters and switches are not set and that the idle tables haven't been filed in. They know the drive cycle isn't completed. You could have done that by unhooking your battery over the weekend. Drive your car for 50 miles or whatever it takes to complete the drive cycle. Fixed. Now let's say the car doesn't run (I DO NOT CONDONE doing this, it is fraud and it's immoral), you'd just flash the car back to stock and then run the radio and all of the lights until the battery dies while waiting for a tow truck. Done deal. Now when they hook the battery back up, the KAM memory is blank because the battery died, and the tune is stock. Again, end of story. No other traces, whatsoever.

Everyone put their law textbooks away. LOL

Seriously, the best thing you can do is call a bunch of dealers and tell the service managers what you're planning on doing. Don't give them any personal info or vin, etc. Just let them know what your plans are.. SCT tune and CAI. You're going to find a dealer that is "hip" so to speak and knows what really does hurt motors and what doesn't. They'll tell you that as long as the CAI/Tune doesn't cause issues and you're not putting a warranty claim in for those issues, they'll ignore it. That's the dealer you want.

 

[AMChrisRose]

it doesnt that was my defense. yea if you uped the advance too much and there was some pre ignition issue it wouldn't retard tha cyl but just as much as getting bad gas with the stock tune

Yeah. And the aftermarket tune the knock sensors are set to be fully functional. I'm glad you know that and won't let them bully you into that. They're waiting for the guy who DOESN'T know that to just say "okay". Good work!

 

[5.0jake]

Well the dealership called and said it has low compression in #8 cylinder 16%. Waiting on further word to tear motor down. A engineer might come and look at it, cause its such a new motor with only 5700 miles on it. Didnt say anything yet about my Steeda CAI, or tune. I dont know it they can see the tune, I returned it back to stock!!!!

Looks like this guy had an #8 issue as well and had to get his motor replaced :shrug:
I'm not sure if he had a tune yet when this happened?

YouTube - bamaediscoveryman's Channel

 

[Get some 5.0]

I did have a 93 performance tune from Bama. Ford replaced my motor and I get it tomorrow. :banana:

 

[Get some 5.0]

sry today...:beer: