Newbi with 70 Mach 1 351w 2bbl

[GeorgiaSnake]

Thanks Lake. Yep that is typically what they did, run the 351W off the line until they were gone and then phased in the Cleveland's. I have actually seen more 70 Mach 1's with Clevelands than I have with Windsors. Actually sounds like the car is a viable ride to do a drive and go to the cruise ins type of ride. Yes the 124606 is its sequential assembly line number. Just for the heck of it you should try to get a Marti report on it. That will tell you how much it may or may not have changed over the years. If it were mine, I would fix the body and interior as best I could within what my budget would allow, including a new paint job. Recam the engine a bit, put a 4 bbl carb on it and a set of headers and be done with it. Are those Magnum 500 wheels on it? Don't change them, LOL. If they are, are they the 14" wheels or the 15" wheels? If they are the 14's, check them to make sure they are the Ford Magnums and not the Mopar Magnums. Typically the Mopar Magnums are all 14" in diameter and 6" wide while the Fords are 14" X 7" or 15" X 7" or 8" (rare). I had Magnums on the 65 Notchback I used to own. Like I alluded to, I know the first gen cars inside and out. If you want any advise on how to do something on the suspension or whatever else just hit me up. I tend to do suspensions with handling in mind, I am an avid autocrosser and was at one time when I owned the 65 the South Carolina region SCCA C/P Champion.

The Snake

 

[lakesnake1]

Snake,

Yes the car is def in cruise in condition. Has been repainted and is in really good shape - a belmish here and there.
It is running rough at idle - especially cold. I did ingition wires to cure a mis it had but still running rough at idle.
I checked the dwell with a meter and it said around 34 degrees which kind of freaked me out a little as the specs I have say 24 - 26. The points distributor has been changed to electonic - this is new to me - has black magnet (i think) that goes around the dist. shaft and a sensor where the points would noramlly be. Does the dwell reading indicate the sensor is perhaps bad/worn out, or is there an adjustment some how?

Once i get that figured out I will reset the timming. But I keep seing different timing specs out there - most say 6 deg. BTDC and reccomend going to 8 deg. on todays gas. But then I also saw 6 deg was for manual transmission and the auto should be 12deg which I thought was a little radical of a change from manual to auto. Also what RPM should I time at? I read 600 RPMS somewhere and thought that was about right.

Do you know of any good sources for the tune up specs?

Seems the more I look the more diff answeres I get. Maybe I am getting mixed up with auto vs marine and older vs newer 351's.

I think the wheels are Magnum - I will have to check out the size - haven't really looked.

+1 on the SCCA C/P championship - that's cool - must have been a blast! What did/do you run in the autocross?

I was thinking the same thing - 4bbl, headers and maybe cam and be done. But then I start thinking possible heads too but there is a budget, and at that point might as well rebuild the internals while its open.....


Lake

 

[GeorgiaSnake]

Its easy to get carried away, LOL. OK, if its an automatic, set the idle at between 600-700 rpm in gear and once warmed up. I really don't consider dwell except with points in a distributor, I am an old dual point guy. I would try setting the timing between 8 & 10 degrees. Funny you should bring up the Marine engines as the 351W started off life as a boat engine which is why its firing order is different.

Yep, autocross is a blast. My 65 was built especially for autocross. The front suspension was modified as well as the rear suspension. A lot of old school mods. Body was also modified. The engine was a bit different. My Mustang was originally a 200 I-6 car. I built a 250 I-6 for it that ended up putting out 397 bhp @ 7800 rpm. I kept that engine because it gave me a better power to weight ratio and a better front to rear weight bias for better handling. The engine was very old school in its build with 3 carbs, dual exhaust header, solid lifter cam, dual point distributor and 13.75:1 compression. also had a 9" rearend with a 4.11 Detroit Locker.

The Snake

 

[lakesnake1]

Wow that 65 must have been one heck of a ride! Def a unique motor setup. I am assuming carbs were trip duce set up? With that compression what octane did u run? Highest I remember is 104 in the old days, unless you knew someone at the airport.

Reminds me of my fathers 65, just a stock 289 with 4 (?) on the floor. Got my fingers slammed in the door of it once when I was like 5. So the mustang has literally been in my blood since then. He then had a 71 mach1 that I drove myself.
Anyway thanks for the timing advice. I guess dewll is just for the old points distributors. Good to know.

Hopefully I can get 70 runnin a little smother this weekend.

 

[GeorgiaSnake]

I have been an A&P aircraft mechanic since 1980 and used to work on small general aviation aircraft so I was running 100 LL (low lead) avgas. That's 101/131 octane depending on the fuel air mixture as delivered to the combustion chamber. Avgas octane is computed differently than auto gas. The carbs are single barrel carbs, so that 3 autolite 1100 series carbs. I had a close ratio 4 speed in the car as well. A lot of what I used to build that engine is now obsolete and unavailable, but yes it was a great car, a real ego stroker, LOL. A lot of low end torque which is what you need for autocross, yet there were times I pegged my 8 grand tach during a race and the engine never missed a beat. When I finally had to sell that car I had to do a compression check for the guy that bought it 3 of the cylinders pegged my 300 psi gauge and the lowest was 297 psi, LOL, that's not even on the chart.

The Snake

 

[cobrakidz]

You stated that the door data plate was changed--I thought it 70 they were a decal? Just curious. Any pics of the car?

 

[GeorgiaSnake]

that's why I said data plate/placard I wasn't sure when the change occurred

The Snake

 

[cj428mach]

The base engine for a 69-70 Mach was a 351 2v. In 1969 the 2v were all windsors, in 1970's they could be windsors or Clevelands in 2v form. All 1970 4v's were Clevelands. I know I would be pissed if I ordered a 4v in 1970 and got a Windsor instead of a Cleveland, lol.

In 1971 the base Mach 1 engine was a 302 2v. I never liked that you could get a performance package with a 2v motor. It kind of ruined the reputation for Mach1's in my opinion.

 

[lakesnake1]

Data plate

Cobrakidz ,

I'm not sue if the 70 data plate should be the metal tag or a decal. I just know it was changed as the car has been repainted. The original color was gold, now it is red. You still find traces of the original color inside the wheel wells. Anyway the current data plate reflects the red color code, not the original gold, hence the obvious change. Also copy of orig invoice provided with car indicates gold color.

Still waiting for the Marti report which should confirm.

 

[Powershift03]

The base engine for a 69-70 Mach was a 351 2v. In 1969 the 2v were all windsors, in 1970's they could be windsors or Clevelands in 2v form. All 1970 4v's were Clevelands. I know I would be pissed if I ordered a 4v in 1970 and got a Windsor instead of a Cleveland, lol.

I don't know. I had a warmed over Cleveland in my DeTomaso Pantera, and currently have one in my '70 Mach. I really don't think they perform all that much better than a Windsor, and God knows there are WAY more aftermarket parts available for the Windsors. Not to mention, parts for Clevelands are also more expensive than Windsor.

I have a 408w ready to replace my Cleveland. To make the same power with the Cleveland I would have had to spend easily twice what I did with the Windsor.

Again, I'm not bashing Clevelands. But, I don't think they are really worth the allure some have for the motors.

 

[427Lightning]

I would suggest you find a spare motor say a 351W out of a Lightning and build it on the side. Buy a set of AFR's or Edelbrock heads, custom cam and then swap out the motors. Leave your motor stock until your done with the spare engine, less down time when you have a spare.

 

[cj428mach]

I don't know. I had a warmed over Cleveland in my DeTomaso Pantera, and currently have one in my '70 Mach. I really don't think they perform all that much better than a Windsor, and God knows there are WAY more aftermarket parts available for the Windsors. Not to mention, parts for Clevelands are also more expensive than Windsor.

I have a 408w ready to replace my Cleveland. To make the same power with the Cleveland I would have had to spend easily twice what I did with the Windsor.

Again, I'm not bashing Clevelands. But, I don't think they are really worth the allure some have for the motors.

Considering 351C 4v heads flow 270ish cfm's which is probably at least 100 more cfms than the best factory 351W heads, I'd say it was a clear choice in 1970 lol. Now days a Windsor is the better platform but I honestly hate Windsor based SBF's. They're ugly, terrible performers stock, and a dime a dozen. No reason to want one in a car I want to get attention.

 

[Powershift03]

Now days a Windsor is the better platform but I honestly hate Windsor based SBF's. They're ugly, terrible performers stock, and a dime a dozen. No reason to want one in a car I want to get attention.

They're ugly??

My 408w from Keith Craft isn't too horrible looking. :lol1:

Stock for stock... maybe. But, if you want attention.... who leaves anything stock?

 

[fiveoboy01]

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