ok ok so the 00R front coils are N/A, can I sub the '95Rs?

[Morgan]

The rates are comparable. I'll be using them on an '03 Cobra, is this a REALLY stupid idea, to use the '00R rears and '95 R fronts, or just partially stupid? In my own defense, I am partially stupid so the concern would be a wash, if the general response is 'partially stupid'.

Thanks!

 

[ac427cobra]

The rates are comparable. I'll be using them on an '03 Cobra, is this a REALLY stupid idea, to use the '00R rears and '95 R fronts, or just partially stupid? In my own defense, I am partially stupid so the concern would be a wash, if the general response is 'partially stupid'.

Thanks!

Just put an aftermarket front suspension on it and be done with it?!?!

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[Morgan]

Just put an aftermarket front suspension on it and be done with it?!?!

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

Funny you say that. My best pal owns a shop and is doing a twin turbo set-up from HP on an '01 GT. The kit comes with a QA1 K-member and D&D coilover set-up. Anyhow, the QA1 K-member and A-arms look real nice and appear that they wouldn't have horrible NVH...so I may end up going that route...we'll see how the GT turns out.

 

[99COBRA2881]

If youre only interested in drag racing then the QA1 stuff will be ok, but if youre into autoX or On Track events and you want strong parts that can handle the abuse then these parts will be more of what your looking for.
K member ------ http://www.maximummotorsports.com/kmember.asp
Caster camber plates -- http://www.maximummotorsports.com/cc.asp
Coilovers ------- http://www.maximummotorsports.com/coilover.asp
Control arms -- http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MMfrontcontrolarm.asp

Maximum Motorsports is all that I run on my PDE 99 Cobra and on the ITE Mustang that I crew chief on. No failures and great install instructions keep us loyal to MM for all our suspension needs. Anthony

 

[Mr. Mysti]

I'll tell you what I did for what its worth.

2004 SVT Mustang Cobra Convertible

Stock From Ford: 500 lb/in specific rate front + 470 lb/in specific rate rear

I had problems with a wheel rub during high speed cornering in the front. The 500 lb/in springs were not going to cut it on the track.



Next I went to the 03/04 Cobra coupe springs: 600 lb/in specific rate front + 600 lb/in specific rate rear.

Front wheels rubbed much less during high speed cornering. Car began to oversteer in some area's (corners) that it previously would understeer. Not too bad to manage, but not the same as the profound understeer I was accoustomed to with the convertible. With the rub still there I decided to go to the next step.



2000 Cobra R springs (Eibach): 800 lb/in specific rate front + 750 lb/in specific rate rear + Cobra R Bilsteins F & R.

No wheel rub on the track during hard cornering or @ any other time for that matter. Profound oversteer during some HPDE driving. Using throttle to plant the rear down during oversteer conditions did not work. Appears rear was too stiff and adding throttle aggrevated oversteer condition.

According to William Mathis, the spring rate for a 03/04 Cobra should be reduced when compared to a Cobra R since the Cobra R spring rates were calculated with the wing. He suggested something like 75 lb/in less if I recall.



Next set-up 800 lb/in specific rate front (Griggs) + 750 lb/in specific rate rear + Cobra R Bilsteins F & R + 2000 Cobra R Wing.

I added a 2000 Cobra R wing and the oversteer condition went away completely as far as I could tell. The difference between no wing and a wing was dramatic. Although there was no reason to go to the Griggs springs (Same Rate as 2000 Cobra R), I had an offer to sell my used springs so I did so. The Griggs springs are the same rate as the 2000 Cobra R except they are 5 coils instead of 8. I guess 5 coils will have less chance of bind; however, I have talked to guys that zipped tied the coils and never found evidence of coil bind in the 2000 Cobra R Eibach springs.



Hope this helps,

Vince :beer:

 

[99COBRA2881]

Good post, :thumbsup:

Hmmm and everyone says the R wing is just for looks. I need to get mine outta the box, painted and get it on the car! Im using H&R Race springs w/ Bilstein HDs. Front 750-850lb/in Rear 770lb/in. Their rates are comparable to the 00R springs except H&Rs are variable rate while the R's are specific rate springs. Car is very controllable and predictable, only thing I noticed so far is its tendency to oversteer on the autoX course but most of this was due to too much throttle, if I lifted slightly the rear end came right back inline. On track the car has been alot of fun to drive, This next year I plan on moving up from the MXs to a set of Victoracers or V710s as my experience and ability increases. Too bad winters almost here.

 

[hawkls1]

do you guys know what you do with the stock spoiler holes when you go to the 2000R spoiler :shrug: .I bin thinking of putting a 2000R rear wing and steeda front 03-04 cobra spoiler no my 03 cobra

 

[99COBRA2881]

Option A. fill holes and have deck lid repainted.

Option B. buy some round headed door panel retainers and use touch up paint to color match, then snap them into place.

I like option B, it doesnt look quite as good but you can always go back with the stock spoiler if you change your mind and best of all its cheaper.

 

[Morgan]

Great information from all of you, thanks!

 

[Mr. Mysti]

Good post, :thumbsup:

Hmmm and everyone says the R wing is just for looks. I need to get mine outta the box, painted and get it on the car! Im using H&R Race springs w/ Bilstein HDs. Front 750-850lb/in Rear 770lb/in. Their rates are comparable to the 00R springs except H&Rs are variable rate while the R's are specific rate springs. Car is very controllable and predictable, only thing I noticed so far is its tendency to oversteer on the autoX course but most of this was due to too much throttle, if I lifted slightly the rear end came right back inline.

That's the problem. In an oversteer situation you want to add throttle, and you want to lift on the throttle for understeer. If you are begining to oversteer and you lift you are taking traction away from the rear wheels when they need it. :uh oh: That is the problem I was having when I had the 750 lb/in Cobra R springs in the rear and the 800 lb/in Cobra R springs in the front. This can be a dangerous situation, imo, and you either need to lower your rear spring rate or add a wing. Perhaps there are other things you could do like sway bar, etc., I am not a suspension expert. Maybe someone can chime in with thier opinion.

Option A. fill holes and have deck lid repainted.

Option B. buy some round headed door panel retainers and use touch up paint to color match, then snap them into place.

Option C. Get a new decklid and swap the whole thing. Save the old one to return to stock or sell it.

 

[99COBRA2881]

I always thought the oversteer was due to too much throttle around corners, my IRS is lacking a few parts that might help cure this. Eibach makes f&r sway bars for IRS cobras but I just have gone all MM up to this point and its worked well for me. I also need the MM swaybar endlinks in the rear and some delrin c/a bushings wouldnt hurt either. I have an auto X sunday and Ill try to add more throttle when I feel oversteer and see if it plants the rears and solves the oversteer issue.

 

[Mr. Mysti]

I always thought the oversteer was due to too much throttle around corners, my IRS is lacking a few parts that might help cure this. Eibach makes f&r sway bars for IRS cobras but I just have gone all MM up to this point and its worked well for me. I also need the MM swaybar endlinks in the rear and some delrin c/a bushings wouldnt hurt either. I have an auto X sunday and Ill try to add more throttle when I feel oversteer and see if it plants the rears and solves the oversteer issue.

When you accelerate during a oversteer condition it is supposed to plant the rear and allow you to take the corner a little faster. Problem is if it is too stiff it wont plant and you will aggrevate the oversteer and possibly snap spin. But the same thing can happen when you are oversteering the car and you lift on the throttle. My car with near identical springs as your H&R Race was not predictable w/ oversteer. If you are doing a parking lot auto X, I am sure you will not get hurt, but the car is not set up correctly if you have to lift for an oversteer condition.

Ask Lou Groth about when he was in my car in turn 2 @ Gingerman SVTOA and he told me to give it full throttle. :dw:

 

[venom279]

So let me get this straight... Oversteer is a "push" condition and understeer is a "loose" condition.. :shrug:

Also, don't you want your car a little on the "loose" side.. Like the slogan "loose is fast" I know you don't want a bunch or you'll just loop the car around going into a corner.. So how do you know when you have enough??

Thanks

:beer:

 

[Cobra-R]

So let me get this straight... Oversteer is a "push" condition and understeer is a "loose" condition.. :shrug:

Also, don't you want your car a little on the "loose" side.. Like the slogan "loose is fast" I know you don't want a bunch or you'll just loop the car around going into a corner.. So how do you know when you have enough??

Thanks

:beer:

"Loose" is the same as "oversteer", "understeer" is the same as "tight".


No car on a road course is going to be "loose" or "tight" as a general statement unless it is at an extreme. Every track will have corners that the car will have a tentancy to be "loose" in and other corners that the car is going to have a tendancy to be "tight" in. For fast laps, you are going to be weighing the cost of giving up somthing in one corner to get something in a more important corner. It's all a balancing act.



Where is the car oversteering or understeering, do you have a specific track in mind?. Corner entry, corner exit, and on what types of corners?

Blaming the suspension seems to be the first thing we want to do, but I would say there is just as much chance it is the result of driving habits, alignments, ect.

I don't know what your driving experience is, but if you really want to learn, have another person drive your car that is familular with mustangs and see what they say. Then, with thier help, learn to drive around the problem by moving apex's, changing entry and exit speeds into and out of corners, things like that. This will add a whole new challenge to tracking.

Brian

 

[Mr. Mysti]

So let me get this straight... Oversteer is a "push" condition and understeer is a "loose" condition.. :shrug:

Also, don't you want your car a little on the "loose" side.. Like the slogan "loose is fast" I know you don't want a bunch or you'll just loop the car around going into a corner.. So how do you know when you have enough??

Thanks

:beer:

Understeer The difference between the direction the wheels travel in and the direction they are pointing is the slip angle. When the front tyres have a greater slip angle than the rear tyres, the car is said to be understeering.

Oversteer, in an automobile, occurs when the rear tires have a loss of traction during a cornering situation, thus causing the rear of the car to head towards the outside of the corner.

understeer, front end plows straight when steering wheel is turned
oversteer, back end comes around when steering wheel is turned.

Understeer - you're looking at the wall when you hit it.
Oversteer - you're back is towards the wall when you hit it.



Here's a list of about 100 ways to adjust or correct understeer/oversteer:

OVERSTEER / UNDERSTEER CORRECTIONS

 

[ac427cobra]

So let me get this straight... Oversteer is a "push" condition and understeer is a "loose" condition.. :shrug:

Also, don't you want your car a little on the "loose" side.. Like the slogan "loose is fast" I know you don't want a bunch or you'll just loop the car around going into a corner.. So how do you know when you have enough??

Thanks

:beer:

It's true that you can drive a loose race car faster than a tight one!!

 

[ac427cobra]

Understeer - you're looking at the wall when you hit it.
Oversteer - you're back is towards the wall when you hit it.

Reminds me of one of my favorite Cale Yarbourough quotes Brian used to have in his sig:

When a reporter asked Cale to describe understeer/oversteer he replied;

"Understeer is when I hit the wall with the front of the car,
Oversteer is when I hit the wall with the back of the car"

(or something to that effect!?!?) epper:

Here's another good one:

"Oversteer is fun. Understeer scares me.

The definition of oversteer is when the passengers are scared, but the driver isn't.

The definition of understeer is when the driver is scared, but the passengers aren't."

That might make a good sig? :idea:

 

[Andy M]

Reminds me of one of my favorite Cale Yarbourough quotes Brian used to have in his sig:

When a reporter asked Cale to describe understeer/oversteer he replied;

"Understeer is when I hit the wall with the front of the car,
Oversteer is when I hit the wall with the back of the car"

(or something to that effect!?!?) epper:

Here's another good one:

"Oversteer is fun. Understeer scares me.

The definition of oversteer is when the passengers are scared, but the driver isn't.

The definition of understeer is when the driver is scared, but the passengers aren't."

That might make a good sig? :idea:

I like these!!!! I have to remember to memorize them for later use!! ;-)

 

[venom279]

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys..

Brian, there isn't a specific track that I had in mind, and I am not talking about anyone's car specifically. It's just a general question as I saw the guys talking about it in this thread and they talk about it alot in stock car racing.. I can see where tight or loose isn't as big of a deal when road racing, it's probably more important to keep the car flat with as little body roll as possible.. :thumbsup:

 

[racer726]

Option A. fill holes and have deck lid repainted.

Option B. buy some round headed door panel retainers and use touch up paint to color match, then snap them into place.

I like option B, it doesnt look quite as good but you can always go back with the stock spoiler if you change your mind and best of all its cheaper.

Best option in my opinion is to find a V6 car in the neighborhood, no spoiler that's the same color... put a note on the windshield "free Cobra spoiler, call me"... and swap the decklids (be sure to swap the locks, and you'll need a rivet for that... if no cars in the neighborhood bite, get a rental V6 car the same color and swap them out, he he, they'll love the SVT badge on the V6 rental. (just kidding, better not do that).

With the unmolested decklid, install the Cobra R wing.

Dave