Out of the ashes, a Phoenix is born (Boss 302 teardown and rebuild)

[Steveespo]

Are you freaking serious? This is the number one problem with car forums. You have a brake light go out and first thing people do is blame it on the tune. I'm telling you right now, tune didn't cause that. It spun a bearing, it didn't bend a rod or bust a piston. That is oil starvation or a defective part. Could have been a bad bearing with a weak or under formed lock tab, or a rod that was machined wrong, or a crank that was machined wrong, etc. Lots of things can cause it, but that is not tune related.

And no, I didn't tune it, I Dont know who tuned it, and I Dont even care who tuned it. But I've built way too many engines and have seen way too much broken stuff to even let a tune issue cross my mind.

Thank you. +1 Oiling issue is most likely cause of this failure. OP says he doesn't track car but it was purchased as a MP car from Ford. Must have had a hard life in the hands of car magazine writers for first 5000 miles. I would have pressed Ford for some help but OP felt the tune would cause him hassles with them for a warranty claim. The complete engine needs thourough cleaning and all parts measured to see if anything is irreparably damaged. I have advised on another forum to consider Aluminator short block with either his refurbished stock heads or new Boss heads, or a complete Aluminator all together. With tune and headers and a Boss or CJ manifold you can make comparable power to a Boss.

 

[pufferfish]

if i saw that carbon buildup, i would consider at least getting it on the dyno after the rebuild to check A/F ratios and i would definitely suspect the tune on that issue. i believe that was dizzy's thought when posting (at least that was my impression of it). of course a tune has no ability to effect oil starvation. that and saving 15% on auto insurance with geico is what everyone knows :thumbsup:

 

[ford20]

It's a beauty car. I admire the effort to dig into it. I wish I was that mechanically capable. Keep the journal going! Pics!

Well I don't know how mechanically capable I am as of yet. Anyone can take an engine apart, it is the whole reassembly end of the spectrum that I might have trouble with lol.

Dang so this cars seen a lot of track use huh? Only guess is oil starvation while running on a track :??: Ohhh and when you get Toothless buttoned back up maybe try another tuner atleast that's what i would do.

From me, no but I don't know what Ford put it through when they owned it. That being said I am thinking of seeing if JPC would tune the car for me as well.

Are you freaking serious? This is the number one problem with car forums. You have a brake light go out and first thing people do is blame it on the tune. I'm telling you right now, tune didn't cause that. It spun a bearing, it didn't bend a rod or bust a piston. That is oil starvation or a defective part. Could have been a bad bearing with a weak or under formed lock tab, or a rod that was machined wrong, or a crank that was machined wrong, etc. Lots of things can cause it, but that is not tune related.

And no, I didn't tune it, I Dont know who tuned it, and I Dont even care who tuned it. But I've built way too many engines and have seen way too much broken stuff to even let a tune issue cross my mind.

+1 Yeah, I am pretty sure all the blame for this mess rests on my shoulders which I am somewhat content about since I don't have to figure out why the motor decided to devour itself.

Thank you. +1 Oiling issue is most likely cause of this failure. OP says he doesn't track car but it was purchased as a MP car from Ford. Must have had a hard life in the hands of car magazine writers for first 5000 miles. I would have pressed Ford for some help but OP felt the tune would cause him hassles with them for a warranty claim. The complete engine needs thorough cleaning and all parts measured to see if anything is irreparably damaged. I have advised on another forum to consider Aluminator short block with either his refurbished stock heads or new Boss heads, or a complete Aluminator all together. With tune and headers and a Boss or CJ manifold you can make comparable power to a Boss.

For sure you have and that was the plan up until a couple of weeks ago when I decided to build a mini cobra jet motor instead. When I send the engine to JPC I will be sure to let them know of everything and see what they say about the block. I hope that nothing is too far beyond messed up that the block is no good though.

 

[ford20]

if i saw that carbon buildup, i would consider at least getting it on the dyno after the rebuild to check A/F ratios and i would definitely suspect the tune on that issue. i believe that was dizzy's thought when posting (at least that was my impression of it). of course a tune has no ability to effect oil starvation. that and saving 15% on auto insurance with geico is what everyone knows :thumbsup:

I think I have pictures of the plugs on the my phone when I pulled them but just looking at them it seemed to be running rich and IIRC a reason for the plugs looking rich could have been short trips and since my commute is maybe 6 minutes to home and back at the most with frequent shorter trips than that I can only imagine that would be one of the reasons for the plugs to look rich as well. When looking at the A/F ratio after running the tune it also appeared to be rich as well with Lambda at .81 IIRC.

 

[Steveespo]

Could excess fuel have washed down the cylinders causing ring wear and cylinder scoring that got metal crculating and wiped the bearings? Any opinions? Ihate that this motor went and the Owner didn't even get to enjoy it on Track.
Steve

 

[Tyler72]

Man, it would have to be more rich than that to wash the cylinder walls. From the pics, they look decent. The other thing to remember is that the boss engines have forged pistons. The PTW clearance is a little on the loose side until everything warms up and the pistons expand. This is why cars with forged internals tend to use a slight amount of oil between changes. If he was only driving it on short trips, its plausible that the carbon buildup was caused by that. As far as the richer AFR, most "road race" tunes are a little on the rich side due to the extended times that the engine is under higher loads.

OP, was the .81 lambda at WOT? Engine fully warm?

 

[gimmie11s]

thats crazy.

Looks like defective bearings or a crank/rod that are out of round or defective.

Good save before it sent #7 rod through the block.

 

[Dizzyscure1]

Are you freaking serious? This is the number one problem with car forums. You have a brake light go out and first thing people do is blame it on the tune. I'm telling you right now, tune didn't cause that. It spun a bearing, it didn't bend a rod or bust a piston. That is oil starvation or a defective part. Could have been a bad bearing with a weak or under formed lock tab, or a rod that was machined wrong, or a crank that was machined wrong, etc. Lots of things can cause it, but that is not tune related.

And no, I didn't tune it, I Dont know who tuned it, and I Dont even care who tuned it. But I've built way too many engines and have seen way too much broken stuff to even let a tune issue cross my mind.

Ummmm... I wasn't blaming the tune oke: Did you see the pics?

Thank you. +1 Oiling issue is most likely cause of this failure. OP says he doesn't track car but it was purchased as a MP car from Ford. Must have had a hard life in the hands of car magazine writers for first 5000 miles. I would have pressed Ford for some help but OP felt the tune would cause him hassles with them for a warranty claim. The complete engine needs thourough cleaning and all parts measured to see if anything is irreparably damaged. I have advised on another forum to consider Aluminator short block with either his refurbished stock heads or new Boss heads, or a complete Aluminator all together. With tune and headers and a Boss or CJ manifold you can make comparable power to a Boss.

Toothless isn't the only one to have a bad bearing with the 2012 Boss.

if i saw that carbon buildup, i would consider at least getting it on the dyno after the rebuild to check A/F ratios and i would definitely suspect the tune on that issue. i believe that was dizzy's thought when posting (at least that was my impression of it). of course a tune has no ability to effect oil starvation. that and saving 15% on auto insurance with geico is what everyone knows :thumbsup:

Thanks! Correct!!! :beer:

thats crazy.

Looks like defective bearings or a crank/rod that are out of round or defective.

Good save before it sent #7 rod through the block.

I linked one forum member in another forum who had a like issue on his 2012 Boss. I honestly tried looking for the article I seen about the 2012 Boss, a few of them having bearing issues.

 

[ford20]

I took the crank out of the block tonight and noticed some odd things with the bearings but I am way to exhausted to try and type something up tonight so I will have pictures and whatnot tomorrow. Number 5 is a dirty whore and did not want to come out though so I had to take drastic measures to take it out.....

Man, it would have to be more rich than that to wash the cylinder walls. From the pics, they look decent. The other thing to remember is that the boss engines have forged pistons. The PTW clearance is a little on the loose side until everything warms up and the pistons expand. This is why cars with forged internals tend to use a slight amount of oil between changes. If he was only driving it on short trips, its plausible that the carbon buildup was caused by that. As far as the richer AFR, most "road race" tunes are a little on the rich side due to the extended times that the engine is under higher loads.

OP, was the .81 lambda at WOT? Engine fully warm?

I wish I could say yes or no but in all honesty I can't remember. For whatever reason I keep thinking that was highway cruising but that was usually when I paid the most attention to it so maybe that is why. I do know that the engine was fully warm though.

thats crazy.

Looks like defective bearings or a crank/rod that are out of round or defective.

Good save before it sent #7 rod through the block.

I certainly did get lucky there and for that I am thankful. All I really know is that it is time to turn a bad event into something good lol.

Ummmm... I wasn't blaming the tune oke: Did you see the pics?



Toothless isn't the only one to have a bad bearing with the 2012 Boss.



Thanks! Correct!!! :beer:



I linked one forum member in another forum who had a like issue on his 2012 Boss. I honestly tried looking for the article I seen about the 2012 Boss, a few of them having bearing issues.

I do know that they are a couple of Boss motors out there with some bearing issues but how many I'm not positive since Ford had been trying to get them all back to tear them apart for R&D work from what I am told.

 

[ford20]

Since I was sick and I had no energy to try and pull out the main caps, the first thing I did was get to work on the oil pump. After removing all the screws for the oil pump I opened her up hoping to find it shattered or cracked but as usual I was let down here. Here is what it looked like when I opened it up.

After taking a good look at it I didn’t see any cracks or anything like that but I did notice what we now know is bearing material on the inner and outer gears of the oil pump. I don’t see any scratches, cracks, gouges, brakes etc. in the oil pump gears so they should be good even though they will be being replaced in the build with a set of TSS gears.

Once I gained my strength back I decided to finish off tearing the block down to nothing, so I got to work on pulling the last 2 caps out. #4 came out fairly smooth (about 5 minutes of back and forth while pulling up at the same time) while #5 was decidedly more stubborn. In all honesty I felt like blowing it out with some C4 since it seemed to be coming out 1/16th of an inch every 4 minutes. After quite some time and wrestling, out it came and I was able to take a look at the crank. I didn’t notice any odd or unusual marks outside of what appears to be some marks from when the crankshaft was balanced so I didn’t take any pictures. But if you guys want pictures of my shaft you will have to get in line.

Anyway, I pulled out the bearings and from the top they looked decent, some minor scoring on them but the bottom side looked like there were some wear marks on them.

I tried to get a picture of all of them together to save some space but you can see for yourself. #3 & #4 both had the part numbers wiped out from them and it looks like the little tab was being worn down as well. All of the caps had these weird spots on the bottom that were completely smooth as opposed to this criss-cross pattern that seems to be made that way. If you look at the overhead view you can somewhat make out what I am talking about especially looking at the right hand side of the #3 bearing (order goes left to right so #1 on the far left and #5 on the far right).

Can anyone tell me if this is normal? It looks like there is some sort of scoring on the #5 main (I guess that is what you would call it).

Outside of that the block is completely torn down with nothing left on it. Now we are going onto the cleaning phase. I think that the internal side of cleaning will be taken care of when it comes time to machine the block as well put the liners in it but I will find out for sure when I get the quote from JPC.

• Oil Pump – 8 x T30
• Rear Main Seal Plate 6 x 10mm

 

[DA BOSS 13]

Could excess fuel have washed down the cylinders causing ring wear and cylinder scoring that got metal crculating and wiped the bearings? Any opinions? Ihate that this motor went and the Owner didn't even get to enjoy it on Track.
Steve

BINGO, fuel diluted oil is my call, too.

 

[ford20]

BINGO, fuel diluted oil is my call, too.

Can you guys explain that a little bit more for me? I am very much a noob when it comes to a lot of this stuff. What would be the symptoms to look for for this?

 

[darreng505]

Noob?? Lol
You just gave us all a crash course on how to disassemble our motors!

If you're a noob then I'm a piece of pocket lint. But I'm learning a lot in this thread!

 

[gimmie11s]

Doubtful unless a cylinder/s was dead (not firing) causing the fuel so strip the cylinders of oil.

Very unlikely unless there was/is something mechancially wrong with the fuel system.

 

[gimmie11s]

Doubtful unless a cylinder/s was dead (not firing) causing the fuel so strip the cylinders of oil.

Very unlikely unless there was/is something mechancially wrong with the fuel system.

 

[ford20]

Noob?? Lol
You just gave us all a crash course on how to disassemble our motors!

If you're a noob then I'm a piece of pocket lint. But I'm learning a lot in this thread!

Haha well I would say you guys know way more than I do. I can't tell you how many times I got a headache reading what you guys were saying in your build thread. Taking stuff apart is the easy part. Now lets see if I can't put it all back together again. Hopefully this doesn't have a Humpty Dumpty ending where all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put the engine back together again.

Doubtful unless a cylinder/s was dead (not firing) causing the fuel so strip the cylinders of oil.

Very unlikely unless there was/is something mechancially wrong with the fuel system.

Would there be any way to test this? The only thing I could thing about would be to test the injectors signal or something to that effect.

 

[Tyler72]

The oil would have smelled like gss and it would've been noticeably over filled. I'm still saying no way on that.

 

[mavisky]

Agreed. Highly doubt this has anything to do with fuel washing down a cylinder and wiping out the bearings.

Unless the car was running on 7 cylinders for a couple of minutes because a spark plug wasn't firing and the injector still was.

 

[ford20]

The oil would have smelled like gss and it would've been noticeably over filled. I'm still saying no way on that.

Nope, although the main bolts smelled terrible when taking them out. Almost like I would imagine burning oil would smell like.

 

[MaximumVelocity]

Just a note on your tool choice...that is NOT the correct balancer removal tool. By using a conventional 3 jaw puller, you grab the outer pulley ring that is tied to the inner hub only by elastomeric rubber. This puts a lot of force on the rubber ring and may cause it to tear. Check carefully to make sure you didn't hurt the OE balancer.

If you look, there are 3 notches on the arms to locate the correct puller tool (same one for DSM / Chrysler engines).

Good luck with your Boss. Hope you find the issue. It sucks when you have a failure but don't have a definite cause that you can cure and make sure the problem doesn't come back.

-Tim