Really? This Qualifies For "Stand Your Ground"

RedRocketMike

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Ohio Snake said:
In Ohio, simply showing your gun at the wrong time and /or the wrong location can get you a brandishing charge. I can see where a LEO can do this without worry, but a non-LEO might have some issues doing that.


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For that reason my Florida carry class instructor said to pull it out only if I'm going to shoot. I told a guy who had his fat fingers wrapped around my open passenger window, trying to break the glass, that I was going to shoot him. Is it legal to just throw that out there during a confrontation?
 
Ohio Snake

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RedRocketMike said:
For that reason my Florida carry class instructor said to pull it out only if I'm going to shoot. I told a guy who had his fat fingers wrapped around my open passenger window, trying to break the glass, that I was going to shoot him. Is it legal to just throw that out there during a confrontation?
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Instuctors here teach that same principal.

I think you warning the guy that he could get shot if continues attempting to break in your car would be fine...and if you fired your gun......a potential SYG justification if he succeeded.


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MG0h3

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Ohio Snake said:
In Ohio, simply showing your gun at the wrong time and /or the wrong location can get you a brandishing charge. I can see where a LEO can do this without worry, but a non-LEO might have some issues doing that.


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Good info to put out. Thank you


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MG0h3

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Blown 89 said:
At no point did I say he should have shot the guy, I'm simply pointing out why he's not sitting in jail and why discharging that firearm wasn't completely unreasonable. You're playing a big what if game and the fact is the deceased assaulted the man and put the shooter in a position to fear for his life. We can coulda, shoulda, woulda all day long but those are the facts and why he's not facing charges. I'd imagine public pressure will change that at some point soon.
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I have to admit I’m looking at this through a different lens as LE so my opinion is biased.

Just hard to see someone lose their life like that when I truly didn’t see it as necessary.


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blubyu87gt

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MG0h3 said:
And exactly what experience do you have on this topic?

Or does a simple shove like that equal a life threat to you as well? I’ll assume that’s the case. ‍♀️


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I have plenty. On the LE, .mil (since it was brought up earlier in the thread), CCW, and firearms instruction and training side of things.

Personally, I think it is reasonable to suspect this guy was out looking for trouble and much of his bravado is due to the force multiplier he has on his hip.

That was not what I would call a "simple shove"... However I will agree that it likely would only land a simple battery charge. So I personally think deadly force was unwarranted. However, there are mechanisms in place via our judicial system that will make that decision.

Regardless of the "simple shove" the person doing the shoving looked to have withdrawn from further escalation of force. As such I don't personally feel that he should have taken the shot. I am also looking at the situation through the lens of my past experiences and trainings.

Finally, I think the shooter is a damn fool for getting into the situation in the first place. The guy doing the shoving is equally an idiot for getting physical. De-escalation should always be at the forefront of conflict. Sadly both of these guys failed to understand and act on that principle. In this case it cost one his life. What it will cost the other remains to be seen.

So go ahead and make your assumptions like a bonehead.
 
PaxtonShelby

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blubyu87gt said:
I have plenty. On the LE, .mil (since it was brought up earlier in the thread), CCW, and firearms instruction and training side of things.

Personally, I think it is reasonable to suspect this guy was out looking for trouble and much of his bravado is due to the force multiplier he has on his hip.

That was not what I would call a "simple shove"... However I will agree that it likely would only land a simple battery charge. So I personally think deadly force was unwarranted. However, there are mechanisms in place via our judicial system that will make that decision.

Regardless of the "simple shove" the person doing the shoving looked to have withdrawn from further escalation of force. As such I don't personally feel that he should have taken the shot. I am also looking at the situation through the lens of my past experiences and trainings.

Finally, I think the shooter is a damn fool for getting into the situation in the first place. The guy doing the shoving is equally an idiot for getting physical. De-escalation should always be at the forefront of conflict. Sadly both of these guys failed to understand and act on that principle. In this case it cost one his life. What it will cost the other remains to be seen.

So go ahead and make your assumptions like a bonehead.
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I agree with all the above EXCEPT...

I can’t say the shover is equally an idiot as the shooter. The shooter is at a much higher level of stupidity than the shover. We have all shoved someone at one time or another. If we then retreated as that person drew a gun on us, did we also deserve to be shot? I think we all know the answer to that question, regardless of the local laws in effect at the time.
 
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PaxtonShelby said:
I agree with all the above EXCEPT...

I can’t say the shover is equally an idiot as the shooter. The shooter is at a much higher level of stupidity than the shover. We have all shoved someone at one time or another. If we then retreated as that person drew a gun on us, did we also deserve to be shot? I think we all know the answer to that question, regardless of the local laws in effect at the time.
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Seriously? You've gotten in shoving matches as an adult?
 
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MG0h3 said:
Just hard to see someone lose their life like that when I truly didn’t see it as necessary.
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I agree, I don't think it was necessary either. I understand, maybe, why he might have felt the need to although I'm willing to admit there might have been some anger behind the motivation.
 
Sinister04L

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PaxtonShelby said:
I agree with all the above EXCEPT...

I can’t say the shover is equally an idiot as the shooter. The shooter is at a much higher level of stupidity than the shover. We have all shoved someone at one time or another. If we then retreated as that person drew a gun on us, did we also deserve to be shot? I think we all know the answer to that question, regardless of the local laws in effect at the time.
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No, he was just as much of an idiot. He took a verbal confrontation and made it physical. Plenty of asshattery by all parties, including the girlfriend.
 
Coiled03

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Blown 89 said:
I agree, I don't think it was necessary either. I understand, maybe, why he might have felt the need to although I'm willing to admit there might have been some anger behind the motivation.
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That's the short version of the last 16+ pages.

There was plenty of stupid to share between the two of them.
No, the guy didn't DESERVE to get shot.
It's understandable why the shooter might have done it, even if the motive was wrong, too.

How all that plays out legally is yet to be seen.
 
MG0h3

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Yep.

Guess you have to ask the question, is this guy all brave confronting people because he went out and bought a gun?

I've honestly never thought about any of this.
 

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