Rebuilt 4v Blowing Smoke. Some Input Please

zpstang96

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Cliffs: Brand new 4v is blowing smoke, found oil on top of the pistons. See last two paragraphs

Just finished the 4v swap in my 96 GT. Started with a teksid block, .020 over with a MMR 1000s rotating assembly--Kellogg stroker crank, Manley rods/pistons, Total Seal rings, etc. 9.5:1 compression. ARP bolts and studs throughout, freshened up B heads with .5mm oversized stainless steel valves, Comp valve springs/retainers, IMRCs deleted, 96-98 Cobra upper and lower intake.

Used the GT harness and ecu. Had to extend the harness for the coolant sensors but it actually wasn't a huge deal. Also it has Aeromotive fuel rails and lines and 39 lb injectors.

Anyway, on to the problem. We (my father and I, who did everything except the machine work) get a call from Bill @ Mongillo Motors, who is tuning the car, and he tells us that the car started blowing blue smoke as soon as he started it. Had it running up to 2000 rpm and it was just puffing out blue smoke. So he shut it down and did not touch it. The only thing he did was put a startup tune in the car to account for the 39 lb injectors, etc. We tow it back from Mongillo and start looking into problems.

Checked PCV valve, it's not the issue. Pulled the plugs, they all look fine and the same. Compression test yielded perfect compression in every cylinder. Vacuum checks out fine. Upon looking down the holes once we pulled the spark plugs, we could see engine oil on top of the pistons. Called the machinist, a family friend, who said that everything went together fairly easily, and that the valve guides (which were not replaced) were all well within factory spec. However, we are still thinking that bad valve guides would cause this problem. We haven't ruled out piston rings or valve seals, but what else could it be?

We have not finished looking for problems, but I figured I would post up and see if anyone has any info/ideas/experiences with this problem that they would like to share. Anything you guys can suggest is greatly appreciated :beer:
 

STAMPEDE3

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Did you start it or run it at all before sending it to the tuner? nothing show up then?
How much run time is on the motor?
 

zpstang96

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Yes, started it up with the 19 lb injectors and factory GT tune in order to get the juices flowing. Swapped to the 39 lb injectors after that and it was not run with the 39s until a tune was put in to compensate. In total the motor has run for probably around an hour. When we first started it it was not blowing blue smoke
 

encasedmetal

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OP_ if it's blowing blue smoke and there's oil on top of the pistons- then oil is getting past the rings. do a leakdown test. also- what exactly were the compression test readings- and post some pics of the plugs.
 

mustanginky

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i'd guess rings as well if oil is sitting on top of the pistons. i guess it could be from guides but i'd think it'd be a lot less oil with guides than the rings, hence why you've got oil sitting on top.

i agree, do a leakdown or compression test and see where the problem lies.
 

DVJ38

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I didn't know someone in my area was building a 4V swap into an sn95 GT. Funnier that you know mooch lol.

I'm assuming yes, but it has to be asked, so were the valve stem seals replaced with new ones during the rebuild? You didn't specify. A leak down test would be good though.
 

zpstang96

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Thanks for all the replies, guys. Been on vacation for the last couple days but I'll be back at it tomorrow and I'll get the leakdown done. Compression was 170 on every cylinder and the spark plugs were a little dark (nothing major, I'll take some pics of them), but they all looked identical. And yes, all seals were replaced. The guides were not, however
 

zpstang96

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I didn't know someone in my area was building a 4V swap into an sn95 GT. Funnier that you know mooch lol.

I'm assuming yes, but it has to be asked, so were the valve stem seals replaced with new ones during the rebuild? You didn't specify. A leak down test would be good though.

Yes every seal was replaced. Where in CT are you? :rockon:
 

SIC9250

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You replace the valve cover grommets?? Oil WILL get past a plug to the top of the piston and puddle causing smoke issues...seen this several times,happens often on hemi style cylinder heads,anything from civics to our beloved 32v's...
 

SIC9250

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Also can't forget we are not robots,humans make mistakes! Valve seals or rings could've been replaced incorrectly nobody is perfect..hate to tell ya that man :( good luck with your outcome I would be stressin..
 

96camanstroke

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If your getting puddle on the piston that's from a bad valve seal leaking it down off the valve and on the piston. Or its valve cover grommets leaking on to the plug and down the threads, it happens if it was ringsyou wwouldn't get a puddle you would just get start up smoke and when driving it would smoke. I'd check the seals. Make sure there viton seals and the guides Arnt allowing the valve to flex that will make the seal wear out in a oval and not do its job.
 
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USMC53CHIEF

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You replace the valve cover grommets?? Oil WILL get past a plug to the top of the piston and puddle causing smoke issues...seen this several times,happens often on hemi style cylinder heads,anything from civics to our beloved 32v's...

This would be way too obvious. I painted my valve covers and had 2 leaky grommets. Eventually the plug tube would slowly fill with oil and would cause a miss because of oil in between the plug and wire. Its also impossible to have the plug in the head at proper tq and have the oil leak past it. Its not the grommets, I guarantee it
 

USMC53CHIEF

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I will kinda piggy back on this a little. I did a rebuild 6k ago and I am having some smoke issues as well. I posted a video under "stingers" highlighting the sounds, but when I start it and I rev it up I get a pretty fair amount of smoke. I have new rings, valve guides, seals, the whole sha-bang. I also know that these motors just plain burn a ton of oil. The PCV system on these modular motors are garbage. I put a oil catch can system on my drivers side and it will be 3/4 full of royal purple after 80 miles.

I have been wondering why I am blowing smoke and want to interrogate the machinist with a set of jumper cables, but it could be that I am just picking up oil in the intake.

It also depends on what material the rings are made of and how you "seated" them during break in. I do know there is a difference between the stainless and moly rings... maybe figure out which ones you have and how you broke them in.





.
 
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SIC9250

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/\ impossible for oil to get past the threads of the spark plug down into the combustion chamber huh...lol ok expert..
 

SIC9250

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Also not to mention NOTHING is obvious on a brand new engine in a car that he hasn't even driven,it's been started a few times from what's been posted and smokes,no answers at all and everyone is scratching there heads..don't be so quick to think you know it all and never rule out anything when it comes to mechanics and engines...oil does some of the craziest shit people could imagine while an engine is running....
 
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65svt

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I had same issue with my stock engine, was throwing blue smoke and there was a puddle of oil on cyl #5 and #7, compression and leakdown test was with in specs so I decided to remove driver side valve cover to inspect it thinking i was gonna do the valve stem seals and found 2 cam followers off, they were from the 2 pistons that had oil in them, I put followers back on and i have been running engine with out any problems. I would check that, Good luck!
 

USMC53CHIEF

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Also not to mention NOTHING is obvious on a brand new engine in a car that he hasn't even driven,it's been started a few times from what's been posted and smokes,no answers at all and everyone is scratching there heads..don't be so quick to think you know it all and never rule out anything when it comes to mechanics and engines...oil does some of the craziest shit people could imagine while an engine is running....

you let me know when you see oil go through the threads before it fills the tube up...
 

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