Anyone tried or using the revised VMP 160mm TB for the Gen 3? Looking for feedback.
I keep hearing they have one working great and to look for the release in a couple weeks. That was over a month ago and still no release.
Another vote for the KB 168. Zero issues on my Lund tune. I'd not worry about the adapter as all it does is realign the bolt pattern to install on the blower but with the KB bolt pattern on the TB side. Kooks used to make a 3/4" thick AL plate that had counter sunk bolts to the head with different bolt pattern on the header side to allow for enlarge ports. The inlet side is not a severe area for gaskets. If it's flat milled & does not leak why wouldn't it work?
Before Hostile made the adapter plates I swapped from VMP 67 to the KB mono. I sold my O-Sized BPS elbow with the Twin 67. I bought the KB Bolt Matching O-Sized Plenum.
Hilarious. That's what they told me when I bought my gen 3 in August. Gained a whopping 8 whp over my gen 2r set up. Since replaced with kb 3.6.
So what kind of RWHP you gained after installing the KB 3.6?
Justin, how would I go about getting this lighter spring for my 72 mm TB? I'd like to experiment with it.Knowing what we know now, the VMP twin 72mm would be easy to bring back, but it would have kind of an odd place in the market because we plan to bring out a small monoblade like the Ford Racing CJ unit. That blade is small enough for the electronics to modulate easily, and with what we know now, and the tweaks we plan to make, it will work extremely well on stock camshaft/stock vacuum situations. There is an abundance of tuning info out there for the FRPP mono. Once you go bigger than a twin 65, 67, 69, or go from a small monoblade to a really big one, it really separates the tooners from the tuners.
Great info thanks for sharing.You guys would probably not believe this, but our VMP throttle bodies are actually built by the same company as KB. We specced ours with plastic gears that have worked so well on our twin 67s. However, the brass gears everyone complained about early on, actually add a bunch of play, and keep the computer from thinking the TB is "stuck" which results in a P2112 failsafe code.
We have revised our 160s and 173s with the looser brass gears and also a softer spring that allows the motor to more easily close the large blade when returning to idle. The softer spring requires your default angle be set to 0 in the tune, I had HP tuners add this to most codes, and I have an SCT value file for it. This gives the motor much more control at low airflows and keeps it happy. You can tell if your TB has this feature because the little bolt next to the motor will be brass instead of the OE black spring loaded stop screw.
I heard someone mention in another thread their KB 168 could not be tuned...the truth is, with blades this big, we're on the edge of what the factory ECU can control TB size wise. In a high vacuum situation, like idle, or in-gear decel, there is a TON of force on the blade. The motor has to modulate against this vacuum force. Any time you go to aftermarket cams vacuum goes wayyy down, and the blade becomes very easy for the motor to move. There are also some tuning tricks that help things too. The VMP twin 72mm ultimately suffered from the stiff factory stop spring and the vacuum force acting on the almost 3 inch tall blades.
Also keep in mind KB 168s have been out there for nearly 10 years, and there exists a lot of open source type tune information for them. The VMP 160s and 173s are new sizes and have different OL FF and area tables in the ECU. How they are mapped depends greatly on how much vacuum the combination pulls...as that effects airflow at low throttle angles. I have seen very few tuners that truely know how to map large throttle bodies. I can tell you we have several VMP built/tuned cars running 173s with perfect driveability, but they are cammed out 1000+rwhp combos that need as much air as they can get. We have also seen Lund tune the VMP 160 and 173 very well.
That all being said, we only recommend the 160 and 173 if they are appropriate for the combination and it will actually benefit HP-wise from such a large throttle body.
The VMP 67mm, is our old standby, and it can be tuned by anyone. I'll throw a little secret out there, stock data works just fine most of the time.
We are coming out with a VMP 69mm as well, just a little bump over the 67mm, and still super easy to tune with data that is nearly stock.
Knowing what we know now, the VMP twin 72mm would be easy to bring back, but it would have kind of an odd place in the market because we plan to bring out a small monoblade like the Ford Racing CJ unit. That blade is small enough for the electronics to modulate easily, and with what we know now, and the tweaks we plan to make, it will work extremely well on stock camshaft/stock vacuum situations. There is an abundance of tuning info out there for the FRPP mono. Once you go bigger than a twin 65, 67, 69, or go from a small monoblade to a really big one, it really separates the tooners from the tuners.
With all that being said, you can see how bigger is not always better, and be careful what you wish for.
Going forward we are setting up our throttle body line with easy to tune twin blade options, a medium sized option, and a large race option, that is not outside what the electronics/motor can handle even with a lot of vacuum. I believe we'll have the easiest to tune and best performing options out there. All of these new TB options will be out in the next 3-4 months.
Do you have long tubes?I feel like my twin 65mm T/B is really restricting my Gen3 TVS, I'm only seeing 15psi with a 2.6 upper. If Lund will be able to tune the 160mm T/B I'll go with that one.
How are you gauging boost? DO NOT rely on the factory gauge. If you had the factory throttle body on it, you'd be over 18 psi with a Gen 3 and a 2.6.I feel like my twin 65mm T/B is really restricting my Gen3 TVS, I'm only seeing 15psi with a 2.6 upper. If Lund will be able to tune the 160mm T/B I'll go with that one.
Yes, I have ARH 1 7/8 headers with there OFR H pipe and a Kenne bell bigun intercooler. I know that will lower my boost no matter what.Do you have long tubes?
I have a Autometer boost gauge, I vacuum and pressure tested it to make sure it's accurate. With my Trinity TVS and a 2.39 pulley I was seeing 13psi, with the Gen3 and a 2.8 I was seeing 13 to 14 psi, now with the 2.6 I'm seeing 15 maybe 16psi.How are you gauging boost? DO NOT rely on the factory gauge. If you had the factory throttle body on it, you'd be over 18 psi with a Gen 3 and a 2.6.