Soap Ported Blower Results (What you have all been waiting for!) Long!!

[stevenscamaross]

Before I start this thread, I want everyone to know that I am not bashing Rev-vin or Soap by posting this. I am just clearly letting other members know the gains associated with this port work. Please guys leave the fighting out of this thread so it doesn't get locked.

OK now let's get started...

Roughly 4 months ago I installed:

1. 2.75RR pulley
2. intake
3. catback
4. x-pipe
4. ngk tr6's @ .035
5. preator custom tune by RWTD
tune 1 = 21 degrees of timing (91 octane)
tune 2 (aggressive)= 21.5 degrees of timing (91 octane) :rollseyes

About a month after the install (3 months ago), I went to the Dyno Jet Research Facility out here (they developed the Wideband 02 here).

I made it to the dyno after a 45 minute drive there. We put the car straight on the dyno and didn't even give it a chance to cool off one bit (I was late ). No ice was placed on the blower, no fans were placed infront of the car, the headlight was still in, but the hood was open. The temperature was 71 degrees and it was alittle past 1:00 pm.

I made 6 pulls on the dyno right after each other. The first 3 pulls were done using "tune 1". After 3 pulls with "tune 1", I switched over to "tune 2". Here is the dyno sheet showing the best with "tune 1" and "tune 2".

The red graph is "tune 1" and the blue graph is "tune 2". Just like most of Jame's tunes, it is pretty lean and starts to richen up at my max horsepower rpm (probably losing some power).

So I made 458rwhp /485rwtq SAE with a totally heatsoaked car which is fine by me.

Well, after seeing the gains from the Apten Ported Eatons, I definitely wanted one on my car. I am a college student and am strapped for cash most of the time, so I wanted to take the cheap way out if it, if the gains were the same.

I read a post about Soap porting an Eaton that made good power (more than the Apten). I contacted him and he told me he uses a CNC machine and that I will see nice gains like the Apten with his port work. For $400, ($200 less than the Apten) I coud afford that. You have to add in shipping which would have brought the Apten to almost $700.

So off goes my blower.

Here is what the bottom of the blower looks like after the porting...

Well, the installation was cake and I gave her a drive. I had just installed the BFG DR's on the car that day as well which made it seem faster since she hooked a lot better. I emailed James @ RWTD and he sent me a tune for now having a ported blower.

I loaded up the r12 on the predator after reading about Maf Voltages and 99% of people maxing them out with the ported blowers and a small upper pulley with bolt ons. I did some 3rd and 4th gear pulls to redline on the freeway and the most it hit was 4.52. After this I just shrugged it off.

My friend on here (Wildbill) has an Torch Red Vert. Mods are:

1. Apten Port
2. 2.80 JDM pulley
3. intake
4. ngk tr6's @ .035
5. Diablo Sport Chip
6. STOCK EXHAUST!

He called me up to do some freeway pulls with him. He had a passenger with him and his top down. I was alone. He definitely had a huge weight disadvantage (coupe vs. vert with a passenger). Every single time we ran we were side by side.
:nonono:

Right then and there I knew something was up. I called my dyno guy to set up and appointment.

Off to the dyno I go...

This time I was prepared. I arrived at the dyno 2 hours early. I left ice on the car the entire 2 hours. I took out the headlight and put 3 huge fans infront of the car (yea I know dyno tricks), and opened the hood. It was around 8 am and the temperature was 72 degrees.

Here are my mods for this dyno...

1. Soap Ported Eaton
2. 2.75RR pulley
3. intake
4. catback
5. x-pipe
6. ngk tr6's @ .035
7. preator custom tune by RWTD
tune 1 = 22 degrees of timing (93 octane)
tune 2 (aggressive)= 25 degrees of timing (93 octane)

I made 3 pulls on the dyno. One pull was done with "tune 1", and 2 pulls were done with "tune 2".

Here is the graph...

Purple RUN: UNPORTED BLOWER, "TUNE 2"
BLUE RUN: UNPORTED BLOWER, "TUNE 1"
RED RUN: PORTED BLOWER, "TUNE 1"
GREEN RUN: PORTED BLOWER "TUNE 2"

*EDIT* I forgot to mention that after we had seen the low numbers on the first pull, we unplugged the bypass on the second run (even though it is turned off with the predator). On the third run, we actually held down the bypass lever to make sure it wasn't dropping boost.


As you can see the gains were pathetic and I lost torque on both tunes.

I had my dyno guy rip my tune off of the predator and examine it to see if anything didn't look right. Dan (Dyno Jet operator has been tuning mustangs and lightning forever) he used the revolution software and everything looked good. I next had him check the tune that I had made 458/485 with and that looked almost identical except for a few minor changes. NO clutch slip, and my fuel was not maxed out, he agreed that it was the port work.

So I get home :mj: . I take off the blower and go down to Ford and buy all new gaskets and a new set of NGK TR6 plugs. I gapped them at .035. I call over a buddy who is an SVT tech to reinstall the Eaton for me (just to make sure it is done right). Even though I know I installed it correctly I just bite my tongue.

After the install, I put back in the tune that I had made 458/485 with and took her for a run. Car feels exactly the same. I hook up the predator and do some 3rd and 4th gear pulls and I get the same numbers for mafv that I had gotten before. I called a friend who has a bolt on unported coupe with a 2.80 upper. I got walked by a car length.


I know that if I used the dyno tricks and the new tune the first time I dynoed without the ported blower I would have made significantly more power than 458/485.

So here now I am stuck with a $400 port job that lost power on my car.

What do you think I should do?

I have contacted Rev-vin and been told that my traps are good for my elevation even though I lost power. He wonders why I am not happy? :kaboom:

I feel am I entitled to a refund and a stock blower. I DID everything I could to make this blower work and it just isn't happening. I hope I don't have to involve a lawyer to get my money back.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to be as informative as possible. Thanks.


Steven

 

[Wayneo]

Very nice write up. If I were you I would definenty get a lawyer and get my money back. You just wasted a lot of money to get no gains what so ever. I'd be furious:mj: I am not an expert or anything but should you change you sparkplug gap now that you have the ported blower?

Oh yea, did you get the NGK TG6's at the ford dealer. I don't feel like ordering them off the internet.

 

[bassin247]

 

[FFKnuckles]

yeah get the money back...i smell false advertising on their part!

 

[Griffin]

As he takes his seat, he wonders who is bringing the popcorn and soda......

 

[broke7]

Some cars pickup HP on ported blowers, and others dont. Maybe hit another dyno.

My car only picked up 27whp or so from the apten, and a port matched plenum. It made some nice gains at the track, nearly 2mph in the 1/8th and 1-2mph in the 1/4 in less than favorable conditions both with the car and track.

Possibly dyno?? I went to my dyno in Feb and made 503whp, came back to the same dyno nearly 2 months later and the car dynod 30whp lower, so needless to say I thought something was fishy with the apten at first. I didnt go after getting my money back though. Thought there was a problem with the car, not the case as my track times refleted accordingly.

I suggest hitting the track and see what the difference is if any, thats unless your a dyno queen and pride yourself on dyno #'s.

I hope things get better for you.

The dyno queen is the demise of the 03/04 Cobra with some owners who pride themselves solely by #'s. Let your actions speak not the dyno #'s. The dyno is no track by comparison. I hope for god sakes you dont get a lawyer involved that was be just plain stupid IMOP.

 

[Juiced-03]

Did you try contacting Soap to see if he could provide any help? I have heard the bypass valve can sometimes get out of adjustment during the Eaton swap. Might be something to look into. One guy said it made a night and day difference on his car. I'll see if I can dig up that thread for you, might take a while though.

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes though. I think I am going to pass on the ported blowers and just save more for the KB. The ported Eatons seem too hit or miss for me to just gamble my hard earned money away. I'll use nitrous if I get greedy in the meantime

 

[Voice of Reason]

Can someone post up what the stock Eaton looks like from the bottom as well as what an Apten looks like? I'm curious to see the differences in how much material was removed.

 

[stevenscamaross]

Oh I forgot to mention that after we had seen the low numbers on the first pull, we unplugged the bypass on the second run (even though it is turned off with the predator). On the third run, we actually held down the bypass lever to make sure it wasn't dropping boost.

Broke7, I used this dyno because I dynoed on it before the ported blower to make a realistic comparison. I unfortunately can not compare to what I trapped at the track pre-ported blower since I didn't go with the pulley installed. I do trap 118 with this ported blower, but so do non-ported cars.

 

[broke7]

old port has the small triangle cut in the back, the new port has a oval instead of trianle.

old port shown here

 

[stevenscamaross]

Here is the first run apten with the stock one next to it. And the circle hole is the second run Apten.

 

[broke7]

Originally posted by stevenscamaross


Broke7, I used this dyno because I dynoed on it before the ported blower to make a realistic comparison. I unfortunately can not compare to what I trapped at the track pre-ported blower since I didn't go with the pulley installed. I do trap 118 with this ported blower, but so do non-ported cars.

what were the conditions like? track? elevation? tires etc.

I went 11.90@120 on my setup with the car hot and on F1's, full weight, spare and jack still in and 3/4 tank of gas. I was disapointed to tell you the truth, but I knew that wasnt the true measure of the car.

I came back 2 weeks later and ran [email protected] on ET streets, no real other changes, except a new filter and plugs with a less than desirable 60ft. So I know the blower works, sometimes it just isnt all in the #'s. I guess that what Im trying to say, for your case.

I dont see any reason why that blower wouldnt make power, port design is somewhat the same, etc. Not sure?

 

[Davesnake]

That's an ugly story :nonono: I'd be pissed!

 

[stevenscamaross]

I realize you are saying that dyno numbers mean sh*t and I agree, but the proof is right here...

After this I just shrugged it off.

My friend on here (Wildbill) has an Torch Red Vert. Mods are:

1. Apten Port
2. 2.80 JDM pulley
3. intake
4. ngk tr6's @ .035
5. Diablo Sport Chip
6. STOCK EXHAUST!

He called me up to do some freeway pulls with him. He had a passenger with him and his top down. I was alone. He definitely had a huge weight disadvantage (coupe vs. vert with a passenger). Every single time we ran we were side by side.

This is what bothers me. A stock exhaust vert with a passenger staying side by side with me.

 

[broke7]

Originally posted by stevenscamaross
I realize you are saying that dyno numbers mean sh*t and I agree, but the proof is right here...



This is what bothers me. A stock exhaust vert with a passenger staying side by side with me.

you have a point

 

[Onelfastlride]

steven,

Trust me, you are not the only one to experience this. People are much more likely to post the good and not mention the bad. I'm not certain what has happened.

In my opinion one would think the clearances between the rotor's and case are critical. Guess that is the under statement of the year. The rotors paddle the air around the outside of the case and down building pressure in the lower intake manifold. This is also one reason why the Eaton is less efficent then a KB, the friction of the air along the walls of the case. So I would think if the clearances are too tight you possibly could contact the case and cause a rub between the case and the rotor, heat and machining in place would be the results, both not good. If the clearances are too lose then you will not be able to hold pressure in the lower intake manifold and the air will leak back around the rotors and the case. Essentially I think porting the blower is eliminating some of the back pressure that builds as the air is paddled around the case and down out a small hole. Perhaps there is a limit to how much you can remove with out weakening the case, warping the case, or allowing manifold pressure to leak back or case issues with air being pushed in.

 

[Brian@SCT]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but sometimes there is a reason you pay more from one vendor to the other. Not everyone's porting is the same, I know that for a fact.

Brian

 

[JKD COBRA]

Onelfastlride is correct. I agree with him. The clearences between the rotors and case are very critical. Simply because the way the rotors spin, they push the air outwards and around the case and then down through the bottom.

Steven - like Onelfast said, your not the only one. Some people get a head of themselves and try new shops that have just started ported blowers and they have gotton terrible results. I am in no way saying that happens to everyone. But the best advice I can give to you guys is don't try and save a couple hundred bucks by trying a new porter.

Like matt and I mentioned when this issue first came up. There is a reason you cant port as much as you want.

Steven - your porting looks too big, I have seen a blower like that. And it also gained 0 hp and his inlet temps were hotter. If you port too much, the case can flex, causing the rotors to touch the case, therefore increasing your inlet temps. And that could cause more problems on its own that are very tough to deal with.

Basically, its something that takes time and practice to be good enough to be 'reliable' at porting blowers. At first, people didn't beleive all that could happen but we are now finding out why its not as easy as people think to port them correctly.

 

[stevenscamaross]

Thanks for the replies everyone. As you can imagine I am quite frustrated.

I am 100% positive it is the port work. I have checked everything and I mean everything...

I just hope Rev-vin stands behind this and gives me my money and a stock eaton back so I can have Apten do it right.

Brian, you are right! I tired to take the cheap way out and I should have just paid the money the first time around.

 

[hj16]

Originally posted by JKD COBRA
Steven - your porting looks too big

I have the Soap port job as well, I cant see Steven's port, but the triangle Apten pic looks like it has MUCH more material taken out than mine.