Oh no!! Too late.
Something for you LIberals to think about who oppose "Premptive strikes"
- Thread starter ArkangelX3
- Start date
Oh no!! Too late.
Thanks but I've been around the world three times and lived in more countries than most people.
I really have no idea what question you're trying to ask me. I'm sure the germans loved their country a lot when hitler was running the show too, same goes for soviet russia under stalin, or china, (insert your favorite military or religious dictatorship here please and move along) so I don't see where you're going with this. I'd be willing to assume you are saying that we shouldn't blow the shit out of those countries hostile to us because we may harm people other than the mean dictator. Am I close? Or right on? Right on huh?
See my other post about overthrowing or moving.
And I guess this country just fell out of the sky? No one died or went through any hardships. It just became. Poof, just like that.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a dick but your argument is weak and only causes more Americans to die unnecessarily. You may think it's ok to send American servicemen to their doom just so the other country doesn't lose people. That's wrong.
Last time I checked America didn't fly airplanes into their giant buildings and kill a bunch of people because god said so. Hmm, I wonder why they don't have giant buildings?......
I don't want our soldiers dying, but if we sat around with our hand up our ass like the liberals would, we wouldn't be the USA; we would be the United States of Germany or Japan and speaking their BS languages. There were occupations in Germany and Japan, this post war occupation isn’t a new idea. I think it's foolish when people assume no one is going to die once the major conflict is over. PEOPLE, we lost less than 300 people and we own Iraq! We were losing more than 300 people in some of the other wars.
There are hundreds of more innocent people dying every day in the states than soldiers are dying in Iraq. Every life in a loss, but war is sacrifice. God Bless those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.
YesterdayAgain
Banned
Wow!! That is the single most ignorant statement I have ever heard about this whole situation. Congrats! Worse than Vietnam? Do you have any friggin clue what you are talking about???
Vietnam lasted 8 years (we have been in Iraq for 6 months). We had 540,000 soldiers in Vietnam at it's height (we have 130,000 in Iraq). We lost over 58,000 soldiers in Vietnam (298 in Iraq). Vietnam cost the US $500 billion in what would be today's US dollars (latest estimate for Iraq is around $166 billion). The people in this country were practically about to revolt during Vietnam. To say this is worse than Vietnam is simply ludicrous and horrifically stupid.
:kaboom: :kaboom: :kaboom: :kaboom: :kaboom: :kaboom: :kaboom:
YesterdayAgain
Banned
I have to agree with him here DOHC. In those types of countries, any sort or revolt or attempt to overthrow the government is met with a brutal slaughtering of those plotting. Saddam particularly would kill people for no reason other than they were gaining popularity in Iraq. Most people are very poor in these countries also and would have no access to any significant arms to revolt against the government. In 99% of all cases, revolting would be certain death. Therefore I don't see that as a feasible solution.
So it's OK for our men and women to die but we shouldn't bomb them because it's not their fault? That's wrong and weak. Everyone has a choice. They chose not to do the right thing and overthrow sadumb. This means they chose to live in that world under those conditions and they must also accept the full and complete consequence of that choice. BOOM. No reason for our people to die over there. None at all.
Thanks for playing. I'm done.
We did not lose 298 Sailors/Soldiers/Marines combined in Iraq.
123 United States Servicemembers have lost their lives due to the War on Iraq.
And we have more than 130,000 servicemembers deployed to that location as well.
Well it's clear that you think that I'm an idiot, but so what. Where is your solution to the problem? Do we just go on like it is for the next 8 years with daily death tolls on TV and let it become the next Vietnam or do we take definitive action . Those American boys that are dying are someone's sons and fathers. Are you ready to send your son or your father or go yourself to simply stand around and get killed. Fighting not to win is just as bad in Iraq as it was in Vietnam. That, to put it in language that you can better understand, was my point. Either fight to win or get out!
What do you propose then??? Shoot every Iraqi on sight?
The people picking off our troops are not formal soldiers dressed in uniform waving flags and rushing in on convoys and such. They are plain clothed terrorists. And with the way they are attacking (suicide bombs and grenading), we don't know they are aggressors until it is too late.
Casualties are an inevitable part of any struggle. This is what we set out to do and by God we are not going to quit now. If we just up and leave, everyone died in vain and NOTHING would have been accomplished in the long run. Another baathist bastard would seee this as an opportunity to take power; then we are back to square one.
Just like anything in life, one must see a commitment through to the end or you are wasting everyone's time and resources. Give it time for crying out loud. we have been fixing our mistakes of the past for 6 MONTHS <----:rollseyes
The people picking off our troops are not formal soldiers dressed in uniform waving flags and rushing in on convoys and such. They are plain clothed terrorists. And with the way they are attacking (suicide bombs and grenading), we don't know they are aggressors until it is too late.
Casualties are an inevitable part of any struggle. This is what we set out to do and by God we are not going to quit now. If we just up and leave, everyone died in vain and NOTHING would have been accomplished in the long run. Another baathist bastard would seee this as an opportunity to take power; then we are back to square one.
Just like anything in life, one must see a commitment through to the end or you are wasting everyone's time and resources. Give it time for crying out loud. we have been fixing our mistakes of the past for 6 MONTHS <----:rollseyes
How about the same thing we've done everywhere else - set up a puppet government, arm them to keep the peace, support them with money, and build security permiters around the oil fields and keep those for ourselves.
You all know very little about this area of the world if you think that 6 months, 6 years or 6 centuries are going to get these people to accept a democratically elected goverment that the US helped to foster. They'll shoot their own people. They did that just this week.
In today's world, democracy works when you have a nice big fat middle class of working people happy with the status quo. When you have a population filled with religious fanatics who want their way of life or no life, it just is not going to work since they will never accept popular rule unless they are in the majority and they will kill everyone else to get into the majority. They understand nothing but death and put no value on their own life. These fanatics (and I do not suggest that they are all fanatics, but there are a lot of them) truly believe that killing us sends them to heaven. That is a concept that most Americans cannot truly grasp. Unfotrunately, that is also the problem is that our leaders here don't see either.
You cannot fight terrorism by doing nothing. Thus, the choices are to kill them on a 2-1 basis or take what you want and get out, leaving it as stable as you can. Anything else is just an ongoing death sentence for our boys.
And for those of you who think that 298 deaths is nothing - I pray that not one of those boys was your brother or friend or cousin or father. I agree that sacrafices must be made for the common good, but is there really any chance of success in what we are trying to accomplish - turn Iraq into a democracy? I think not.
You all know very little about this area of the world if you think that 6 months, 6 years or 6 centuries are going to get these people to accept a democratically elected goverment that the US helped to foster. They'll shoot their own people. They did that just this week.
In today's world, democracy works when you have a nice big fat middle class of working people happy with the status quo. When you have a population filled with religious fanatics who want their way of life or no life, it just is not going to work since they will never accept popular rule unless they are in the majority and they will kill everyone else to get into the majority. They understand nothing but death and put no value on their own life. These fanatics (and I do not suggest that they are all fanatics, but there are a lot of them) truly believe that killing us sends them to heaven. That is a concept that most Americans cannot truly grasp. Unfotrunately, that is also the problem is that our leaders here don't see either.
You cannot fight terrorism by doing nothing. Thus, the choices are to kill them on a 2-1 basis or take what you want and get out, leaving it as stable as you can. Anything else is just an ongoing death sentence for our boys.
And for those of you who think that 298 deaths is nothing - I pray that not one of those boys was your brother or friend or cousin or father. I agree that sacrafices must be made for the common good, but is there really any chance of success in what we are trying to accomplish - turn Iraq into a democracy? I think not.
SVTHorsnake
Banned
DOHC and I had a few friendly PM exchanges. It came to a dead end as I think this will. I just want to say however that whatever my views are, I don't want to burn bridges here. We're all car people and nothing will change that. I don't want my views to hinder how people view me. That's not to say I will change my views if I need to, just to say don't judge me and I won't judge you.
:beer:
-Now if you don't like my headlights, then we're going to have to step outside... jk;-)
:beer:
-Now if you don't like my headlights, then we're going to have to step outside... jk;-)
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But how about this....
Good question. But by us going to war with them, we did two things. One, we warded off a possible threat. Two, we basically bought our next state. The US invested a lot of money into that war, and as soon as it was over, everyone wanted a peice of the land. THe US cant just walk away. The US now owns Iraq. So who do you think will run the place (Even if we say the US isnt, we still are. Whoever the next President of Iraq is, hes just going to be a puppet with Bush's hand up his ass)
Good question. But by us going to war with them, we did two things. One, we warded off a possible threat. Two, we basically bought our next state. The US invested a lot of money into that war, and as soon as it was over, everyone wanted a peice of the land. THe US cant just walk away. The US now owns Iraq. So who do you think will run the place (Even if we say the US isnt, we still are. Whoever the next President of Iraq is, hes just going to be a puppet with Bush's hand up his ass)
Just to chime in, I think its down right stupid to blow the chit out of a coiuntry then pay to build it back up better than it was before just so som a$$ can come in and be another Saddam.
I didnt want to pay for a war in the first place, especially when 5 bombs could have done the same job. I especially dont want to pay to build that shit back up after we blew it to hell. Now if gas went down to 45 cents a gallon, then it might be alright. damn ungratefully arabs anyways. We sould take oil to pay for the war and the rebuild. I personally am not seeing a benifit form this whole effort. I guess thats why its premptive.
Chris
ps, im not anti-war, I just think using nukes would have been far cheaper and done a much better job. And so what if we piss off other countries, what are they going to do? we just used nukes.
I didnt want to pay for a war in the first place, especially when 5 bombs could have done the same job. I especially dont want to pay to build that shit back up after we blew it to hell. Now if gas went down to 45 cents a gallon, then it might be alright. damn ungratefully arabs anyways. We sould take oil to pay for the war and the rebuild. I personally am not seeing a benifit form this whole effort. I guess thats why its premptive.
Chris
ps, im not anti-war, I just think using nukes would have been far cheaper and done a much better job. And so what if we piss off other countries, what are they going to do? we just used nukes.
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