Supreme Court to rule on gun ownership.

[DocHolliday01]

obviously you are an ignorant liberal that cannot listen to reason so im done with you. you have no idea what freedoms will be taken if they take our right to own guns away. The politicians are foaming at the mouth to get a hold of an unarmed america, so if you want to just sit back and let it happen thats your choice, Myself and many other law abiding citizens will not let it happen.

 

[rrpederson]

i agree with 02mineral, guns in the hands of honest law-abiding citizens is the very same idea that prevents us from having to go through what england went through, when the kings could decide on a whim that someone needs to be beheaded for no known reason.

 

[Rochard]

here is a hypothetical question for u. being a marine u are trained how to use certain weapons. so then what happens when an armed burglar kicks in your door, shoots your dog and is now shouting at u, telling u to get on the ground face down, now what are u going to do? i ask because this has happened to one of my friends. to this day he tells me that he wishes that he could have afforded a gun because he would have bought one. my buddy didnt have a dog but he heard him come into his apt. he was asleep and heard the multiple kicks that it took to open his door. i think that the outcome would have been alot different and in this state, he would have been completely justified to defend himself and his home. are u forgetting that in your own home u are no longer required by law to retreat before using deadly force? in your own home when something like this happens where are u to retreat to? i know that a few internet arguements arent going to change your mind and that isnt my intention. if u hate guns thats fine, but when people with the same arguments as u, use them to try to take my rights away then there is a problem.

u say that hunting is the only reason to own a gun, well what is hunting? how many people do u know hunt because they have to feed their family? so then they are mostly trophy hunters. well then whats the difference between hunting animals and hunting people? i dont see a difference, u are killing either way.

and now for your favorite part, when that person invades your house after killing your large dog and laughing at your worthless alarm, you had to kill him, but u did it with a knife instead of a gun because u dont believe in them, should u go to jail now?

think about it dude.

I do believe in the right to defend yourself. I believe that if someone so much as attempts to take away your rights (by breaking into your house) you should have the right to shoot them at point blank range in the back and never ever have to fear about being sued in court by the intruder or their family. I believe that anyone who commits such a crime gives up any rights they might have had.

What happens when somone breaks into my house, points a gun at me, and tells me to lay on the floor? I'd pray that I could dodge that first bullet while I attempt to take him out.

Are you telling me that everyone one of the gun owners here would have the balls to take another man's life?

I work in porn. We deal with a lot of people I'd rather not deal with. Boyfriends and husbands who "didn't know" and fathers that are pissed. We've had them show up at our office before. We thought about getting a handgun. But I asked my boss if he would have the balls to shoot another man if it ever came to that. He answer was "I doubt it". Great - so someone comes barging in, and starts pushing us around - and suddenly someone flashes a gun but doesn't have the balls to use it. Now there is a gun in the situation. It would have gone from a fist fight to a gun fight in seconds.

Listen to me carefully folks because I'm going to bed.

The next time your in Wal Mart take a good look at the people around you, and now imagine them all exercising their right to bear arms. Now imgaine the 300lbs idiot who forgot to put his safety on when he left the house, and the guns goes off when he drops it. Suddenly you have seventy people in the store pulling out handguns and no one knows why a shot was fired or what's going on.

This is what worries me.

My office over looks a stop sign on a busy two lane street and ten times a day I hear tires screaming because someone isn't paying enough attention to see a stop sign. I see people on the road every day who can't drive. You want to trust them with a handgun?

 

[bugmenot]

You have an interesting point about a car that is more or less designed to break the law.

However, our cars are tools - tools designed to get us from point a to point b.

A gun serves only one person - to kill.

You car argue that a car at a high speed can kill, but so can a GEO Metro at 40mph.

A gun is a tool as well.

And yes, a Geo Metro can kill at 40mph, just like a screw driver can be used to kill someone. Many household objects can be used to kill, hell you can kill someone with your hands, going to outlaw them to? Your car was specifically made to go fast, and aimed at people that break the law. You don't even have to go through a background check for it, just pay up and any car is yours.

You act like everyone with a gun is just going to start shooting people. Give me a break, more people carry guns everyday than you think, you ever hear about it? Nope. The times you do hear about it, you think they got the gun legally, or are following the law? They aren't if they are shooting while in their car. Guns arent the problem, just like 500hp cars aren't the problem. It is the user, and the user only. I have the RIGHT to own guns, and if you do not like that, fine, but don't try and infringe on it. I do not like what you are saying now, but I'm not going to try and make it illegal for you to say what you want.... Its the same thing.

Thats what upsets me the most. 90% of the people against guns are all for other individual rights, but no, cant have a gun. Gay marriage, freedom of speech, freedom of press, all those are ok, but a law abiding citizen can't have a gun.

You alter the Bill of Rights, you alter what this country was specifically founded on. Once this country outlaws guns, it can no longer be called the US.

What makes a police man able to have a gun, but nobody else? Training? I doubt a lot of officers have the same amount of training as people who are into guns. Not saying they aren't trained, but true gun people are safe and train a lot. This country is going to turn into god damn Nazi-Germany if people have their way.

EDIT: Wtf makes you think everybody is going to go run out and buy a handgun? Honestly. Or carry one around, its not like they are light or form fitting to a body.

 

[rrpederson]

good god. im done, im going to bed too. we can argue over the internet tomorrow.

 

[DocHolliday01]

I do believe in the right to defend yourself. I believe that if someone so much as attempts to take away your rights (by breaking into your house) you should have the right to shoot them at point blank range in the back and never ever have to fear about being sued in court by the intruder or their family. I believe that anyone who commits such a crime gives up any rights they might have had.

What happens when somone breaks into my house, points a gun at me, and tells me to lay on the floor? I'd pray that I could dodge that first bullet while I attempt to take him out.

Are you telling me that everyone one of the gun owners here would have the balls to take another man's life?

I work in porn. We deal with a lot of people I'd rather not deal with. Boyfriends and husbands who "didn't know" and fathers that are pissed. We've had them show up at our office before. We thought about getting a handgun. But I asked my boss if he would have the balls to shoot another man if it ever came to that. He answer was "I doubt it". Great - so someone comes barging in, and starts pushing us around - and suddenly someone flashes a gun but doesn't have the balls to use it. Now there is a gun in the situation. It would have gone from a fist fight to a gun fight in seconds.

Listen to me carefully folks because I'm going to bed.

The next time your in Wal Mart take a good look at the people around you, and now imagine them all exercising their right to bear arms. Now imgaine the 300lbs idiot who forgot to put his safety on when he left the house, and the guns goes off when he drops it. Suddenly you have seventy people in the store pulling out handguns and no one knows why a shot was fired or what's going on.

This is what worries me.

My office over looks a stop sign on a busy two lane street and ten times a day I hear tires screaming because someone isn't paying enough attention to see a stop sign. I see people on the road every day who can't drive. You want to trust them with a handgun?

If it came down to me or him? yes i would, i have to much to live for to have some scumbag piece of shit drug dealer or gang banger take it all away. if you have the will to live i should hope you could take someones life that was threatening yours. like i said earlier i dont give a rats ass if you dont like guns or do, or if you own them or not thats up to you, however what is NOT up to you is my right to own them and enjoy them. if you dont like that kiss my ass

 

[King$nake]

I can't believe some of the things liberal Rochard is saying. Makes me sick, honestly.

One thing everybody here should remember, is that no matter what law is passed yesterday, today or tommorow, bad guys will always have guns. Criminals have no regard for the law, and they will have guns no matter what, and for much cheaper than what law-abiding citizens pay for them also.

All gun laws do is take firearms from a law abiding citizen, leaving us completely unarmed against an intruder.

And without going into too much detail, a 12 Gauge Shotgun saved my life, and the lives of my family 2 years ago when a spun meth addict neighbor busted through my front door in the middle of the night.

People using the anti-gun argument obviously have no interest in firearms. They are a hobby to myself and millions of other americans. I enjoy building them, cleaning them and collecting them. And it is amazing that an ex-Marine (questionable IMO) would say that it is unnecessary for civilians to own an "Assault Weapon" (could you please DEFINE Assault Rifle for me, Rochard?) As they function exactly the same as any other Semi-Automatic Rifle on the market.

If this guy thinks these "Assault Rifles" are Select Fire, Fully Automatic rifles, than he needs to check his source again, because there are VERY few Fully-Automatic Rifles on the street, regardless of what the Mainstream Media will tell you.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

saying that the one and only use for a gun is to kill someone is as ignorant as saying that the one and only use for a car is for transportation. i mean, nevermind that we have drag racing, road racing, off-roading, etc.

 

[FordMustangLove]

God i love texas,

and to the marine who seems to know every angle, my brother is a current marine, and says marines are insane ..lol

 

[DaleM]

Your saying your have the right to have a handgun. And I'm willing to be that statistically odds are that you will accidently shot yourself in the foot before you ever use your gun to defend yourself.

I'd rather have a sore foot that be killed by a criminal. According to the US Constitution I am allowed to arm myself and no one shall infringe on that right. Or did we conveniently forget that? Also the great states of TN and KY let me conceal those weapons or open carry.

You shall be the victim, I choose not. The laws are on my side, Your sissified attitude towards weapons are not on my side, but you do not really matter. You want to help society, look at the odds of dying of cancer (cigarette induced) or at the hands of a drunk.

Porn does not kill? Ask John Holmes that question you moron. Oh but you'd have to dig his AIDs infested ass up wouldn't you. What a jackass you are!

 

[dougwg]

Ok Rochard, you want to quote stuff, I can play along...

Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids, MI, 10/18/06
State: mi
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2007
Customers were browsing the shelves at a food store shortly before closing time when three men entered the building. Police say the men waited for the customers to leave before announcing an armed robbery. Once they emptied the store's coffers, the robbers took all store employees to the back of the store and bound them with duct tape. With a gun aimed at his head, the store manager, who has a concealed-carry permit, freed himself and drew a .45-caliber handgun. The manager fired several times, striking his assailant twice. The injured robber died while the other suspects fled. "In my opinion, if this man had not had a gun, my concern is that they would have executed these people," county prosecutor William Forsyth said.


Detroit Free Press, Detroit, MI, 03/23/06
State: mi
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2006
A pair of surprises occured inside a Michigan residence in March. The first was on the part of the homeowner who awoke in the early morning hours to find a woman he didn't know counting his cash on the dining room table. The second was on the part of the intruder when the homeowner drew a handgun and detained her for police. The woman, wanted for writing bad checks, was arrested on suspicion of home invasion.


The Detroit News, Detroit, MI, 07/05/06
State: mi
American Rifleman Issue: 1/10/2006
According to police, a 61-year-old man arrived home to find a masked gunman waiting in his garage and a violent struggle ensued. After attempting to wrest the firearm from the intruder, the homeowner drew his own handgun and shot him. A second suspect ran to the aid of the wounded gunman and the criminal duo fled. The victim was treated and released for chest pains and a cut hand, but was otherwise uninjured.


Detroit Free Press, Detroit, MI, 09/13/05
State: mi
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2005
What sounded like an explosion outside a Michigan mans home set off a bizarre chain of events. According to police, when the homeowner looked out his window around 2 a.m., he saw that a Jeep had crashed into his garage. Armed with a handgun, he went outside and found a man trying to dislodge the vehicle. A yelling match ensued and the man drove off, but returned with his lights off. The homeowner, fearful diat the driver was trying to hit him or run him over, hid ; behind a car, and the suspect accelerated and smashed into it twice. The homeowner then fired four shots at the Jeep, but his gun jammed, so he ran inside to retrieve another firearm while his wife and neighbors phoned police. When the homeowner returned, the driver of the Jeep accelerated toward him so he fired two more shots at the vehicle. The driver, whose vehicle was riddled with bullet holes, then left the subdivision and was apprehended by police.


Muskegon Chronicle, Muskegon, MI, 09/30/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2005
Muskegon, Mich., store owner Michael Moore was working late one night in his office when he heard strange noises that he thought were probably animals. But when he heard the doorknob jiggle, he retrieved his gun and went to investigate. Seeing an armed man jump over the counter, Moore demanded that the intruder freeze. When he did not, Moore fired once, hitting the intruder in the shoulder. Moore immediately called 911 and waited for police and an ambulance to arrive.


Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids, MI, 07/07/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2004
Around the Grand Rapids, Michigan, neighborhood, corner store owner Leon Moody is wellknown for his generosity, which is why it came as a shock that someone would try to rob him. According to Moody, the suspect walked into the store, pointed a gun at his face, and demanded money. When Moody asked why he would do this, the robber threatened to "blow his head off for that money." Asking for a moment to gather the money, Moody reached down and pulled out his own firearm, then fired twice at the crook, hitting him once in the arm. The robber fled in a car, but -- was apprehended less than an hour later in the local emergency room. The unnamed suspect has been charged with assault with intent to rob while armed, and felony possession of a firearm.


Muskegon Chronicle, Muskegon, Mich., 10/6/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2004
Hearing noises in his Egelston Township, Mich., store, Michael Moore wondered if an animal had gotten inside and went to investigate. Instead, he found himself confronted by a burglar. Moore retrieved his shotgun and fired once when the man refused to freeze. The wounded intruder who was soon arrested. Muskegon County Prosecutor Tony Tague ruled Moore acted in self-defense and would not be charged.


Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids, Mich., 7/7/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2004
When a man walked into Leon Moody's Grand Rapids, Mich., store and pointed a gun in his face, and demanded money, Moody did not comply. He drew his own gun and fired, hitting the robber in the arm. The man fled, but was arrested within an hour as he sought treatment for his wound.


Detroit Free Press, Detroit, MI, 4/29/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/2004
Barbara Holland closed her used car lot for the day and drove home. She had checked to make sure the handgun she has carried since 1992 was loaded after a strange encounter at the car lot left her feeling uneasy. Holland pulled the car into the driveway and, as she entered her side door, Holland bent down to retrieve something she had dropped. Suddenly a man armed with a gun came rushing at her. Holland tried to slam her door on him, but the man shoved the door open and Holland fell back on her landing. Lying on her back, Holland snatched her pistol from its holster, ready to protect herself and her 15-year-old daughter who was home at the time. Her assailant's glare changed. "He looked surprised," she says. Holland recalls firing three times, but authorities later confirmed six shots. Police identified Holland's attacker, who died at the scene, as an ex-con named Clabe Hunt.


The Daily Oakland Press, Pontiac, MI, 03/20/04
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2004
At 6:30 in the morning, a woman was walking from her car to her office when she noticed a car on the lot with two people inside. A man got out of the car and started toward her, his hands in his pockets. The woman realized she would not be able to reach the office door before the man reached her. Believing she was in imminent danger, the married mother of two opened her purse and drew her gun. The man reacted immediately, turning and walking back to the car, which had pulled up alongside him. The man got into the car and it sped off. Thinking quickly, the woman called police on her cell phone and provided a detailed description of the car and the couple, who were picked up within minutes of the attempted robbery. A 9mm handgun was found in the couple's car and they were charged with attempted armed robbery. Farmington Hills, Michigan, Police Chief William Dwyer, who had not been a proponent of the state's recently enacted concealed carry law, said the situation had changed his view. "She took the appropriate action," Dwyer said, "and probably saved her life."


The Oakland Press, Pontiac, MI, 05/13/03
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2003
A 75-year-old Independence Township, Mich., man was sitting on his couch watching television when he heard a loud noise. The homeowner went to investigate, and as he entered the kitchen he discovered three men coming in his back door, which had been kicked open. There was an exchange of gunfire between the resident and intruders, and the would-be burglars fled. Unfortunately, the man wasn't able to provide good descriptions of the intruders for police.


Muskegon Chronicle, Muskegon, MI, 02/26/03
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2003
A Laketon Township, Mich., couple was watching television in their living room one night when a masked man armed with a metal bat burst into their home. Detective Lt. Dennis Edwards of the Muskegon County Sheriff's Department reported that the intruder raised his bat in a threatening manner and demanded money from the couple. The husband stood and pulled out his wallet, but then dropped it on the floor. When the home invader looked down, the resident tackled him and told his wife to get their gun. She retrieved the gun, racked it and "the suspect got up and took off running," said Edwards. Deputies searched the woods near the home, but the suspect was not found.


The Saginaw News, Saginaw, MI, 01/31/03
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2003
Three men, posing as police officers, broke through a door of a home near Lansing, Mich., intent on robbery, according to authorities. When the intruders began shooting, a female resident returned fire, hitting one of the men in the back. The woman was treated for superficial wounds and released from the hospital. The intruder she shot appeared to have suffered a severe spine injury said Saginaw Police Detective Sgt. Mark Lively. Police were continuing their search for the two remaining suspects.


Houghton Lake Resorter, Houghton Lake, Mich., 5/10/2001
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2001
Gerrish Township, Mich., man discovered two men had broken into his garage. One of the suspected burglars ran off as the homeowner called the police, but he held the other at gunpoint until authorities arrived. Police discovered four stolen cans of beer in the suspect's pockets when they arrested the man. The other suspect later turned himself in.


The Flint Journal, Flint, MI, 6/13/01
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2001
A Flint, Mich., man was awakened one morning to discover an intruder in his bedroom going through his belongings. Clinton Burns, 68, grabbed his .38-cal. revolver from under the seat of his wheelchair and aimed it at the intruder. The suspect then grabbed Burns' wrist and began wrestling him for the gun. "I turned my wrist and pulled the trigger," Burns said. The suspect fell and died draped over Burns' wheelchair. Lieutenant Diane Garrison, commander of the state police post in Flint, commented that she believes people should be able to defend their homes.


Heritage Sunday, Southgate, MI, 4/30/00
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2001
When a Michigan man refused to pay rent to his half-brother landlord because of faulty plumbing, the dispute quickly turned grave. Leaving after an argument at the residence around noon, the landlord returned that night to "do some damage," according to police accounts from the resident. This time, the enraged man reportedly threw a birdbath through a window, and the half-brother, who said he feared for his life, responded by firing his gun. The attacker fell dead.


The Macomb Daily, Mount Clemens, Mich., 9/15/99
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2000
After entering Stan Schley's Grand Rapids, Mich., cellular phone store, an armed man made an inquiry about a specific model then promptly followed with the announcement: "I think I'll just take all your money!" Schley said later that when he fired back a response two shots from his own gun he was thinking, "Not today. I'm not going to be a victim, at least not an easy victim."


The Detroit News, Detroit, MI (5/10/99)
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/1999
The manager of a Farmington Hills, Michigan, motel and his fiancee were in a bedroom early one Sunday morning when a man came inside, threatened the pair and attacked the woman with a hammer. The manager was able to halt the potentially deadly attack with three shots from a .357 Mag., sending the intruder to a hospital in critical condition.


The Herald-Palladium, St. Joseph, MI (4/21/99)
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/1999
Lela Phillips, 66, was awakened by a noise in her Michigan home one evening and moments later was confronted by a 20-year-old man who informed her, "this [is] a stickup," according to Benton Township Detective Delmar Lange. "[She] told him damn right it's a stickup' and pointed [a handgun] at him," said Lange. The man turned and fled immediately. It turns out that a man had come to Phillips' home twice that same day and, on the second occasion, had asked to use her phone a courtesy she denied him because of her suspicion.


The Ann Arbor News, Ann Arbor, MI, 2/21/99
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1999
A 76-year-old Ypsilanti, Michigan, woman found herself facing a knife-wielding, black-clad robber who broke into her house, threw her to the floor, and demanded money and valuables. Handing the culprit about $200 in cash allowed the woman time to crawl away and retrieve a handgun. When she turned the gun on the man, he screamed and begged for his life, then fled. Unhurt, the woman had to make her way to a neighbor's house to summon police after discovering that the thief had cut her phone line.

Grand Rapids Press, Grand Rapids, MI, 2/5/98
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/1998
When two men knocked on the front door of David L. Skirvin's home in Michigan's Ada Township to ask for help with car trouble, Skirvin didn't even make it to the telephone before the men began to struggle with him, ultimately shooting him tiwce in the head, according to sheriff's officials. Skirvin, whose sister-in-law described him as "the type to not back down from people and take any guff," was able to run upstairs and grab a rifle. He exchanged gunfire with the thugs, sending them fleeing.


The Chronicle, Muskegon, MI, 1/2/97
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1997
The burglar ransacked 81-year-old Alberta Nicles' Muskegon, Michigan, home before waking her up and ordering her around the house to search for money. Ending up back in her bedroom, the intruder--a suspected crack addict with a long history of criminal activity--removed the widow's pajama bottoms and was preparing to rape her when she informed him that she knew where there was some money. Her assailant let her up and followed her to a closet where the woman instead retrieved her late husband's .38. She turned and shot her tormentor to death. Nicles then went to a neighbor's home to call police because her own lines had been severed by the intruder prior to his breaking in. "This was not just a random breaking and entering. ...He was planning on taking advantage of the vulnerability of an elderly person. ...She was clearly acting in self-defense," Muskegon County Prosecutor Tony Tague said.


The Daily Tribune, Oakland County, MI, 1/14/97
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1997
"It's as justifiable a shooting as I've seen," said Lathrup Village, Michigan, Police Chief Robert Jones, concerning a pizzeria manager who shot one of two would-be bandits. The two masked robbers stormed into the restaurant, accosted the manager and began pistol-whipping him. During the scuffle, the manager was able to pull the handgun he carried and fire three shots, two of them fatally striking one of his attackers. The other suspect disappeared unscathed into the night. The dead suspect had a criminal record, and police suspect the pair may have been responsible for other robberies in the area.


The Detroit News, Detroit, MI, 6/14/96
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/1996
An elderly Detroit, Michigan, couple were easy pickings for the knife-toting bandit the first time he broke into their home, stealing $100. A month later, he tried it again, but this time the 72-year-old husband was ready. Awakened by his wife who heard somebody entering their house, the man grabbed a Luger he had acquired when serving overseas during World War II. When the suspect confronted the homeowner, the elderly gentlman shot him once in the head, killing him. No charges were filed in the case. Of the matter, Lon Cripps, police chief of another Michigan city said, "There comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own life. Police officers just aren't always going to be there."


The News Herald and Press, Mikado, MI, 3/20/96
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/1996
At the sound of somebody breaking into her home, a "petite" Ausable Township, Michigan, woman jumped from her bathtub, wrapped herself in a towel, and grabbed a Winchester .30-30 rifle. Jeanie Shell soon came face to face with a 220-lb. 6-ft. 2" intruder who she recognized as a neighbor, while a second suspect fled. Shell ordered the housebreaker to leave and called police, who later arrested both suspects and discovered they were responsible for another nearby burglary earlier that morning.


The Chronicle, Muskegon, MI, 8/23/95
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/1996
Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their "gnawing hunger for crack cocaine" fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back. Store owner Clare Cooper was returning behind the counter after showing three of the four conspirators some jewelry, when one of the group pulled out a gun and shot him four times in the back. Stumbling for the safety of his bullet-proof glass-encased counter, Cooper managed to grab his shotgun and fire as the suspects fled. They were all later apprehended and the three present during the shooting face life imprisonment.


The Gazette, Kalamazoo, MI, 7/10/95
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1995
Ypsilanti, Michigan, resident Lois Menna noticed the air conditioner pushed out at her family's hot dog stand, and with .38 in hand, yelled for the prowler to come out, which he did. As a neighbor called police, Menna held the gun on the man, who attempted to unnerve her by threatening to walk away. Menna replied, "I've been waiting a long time for this...if you don't think I'll use it, walk. And you'll find out." The crook, a habitual offender, opted to wait for police.


The Free Press, Detroit, MI, 6/15/95
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1995
Sheila Cole's advice to people: "Don't be afraid to protect yourself." That's exactly what she did after a purse snatcher grabbed her bag containing more than $1,000 in receipts from her Detroit, Michigan, hair salon. Cole drew her .38 cal. revolver, shooting the man in the buttocks and leg. As he tried to escape in a stolen car, the robber was beaten and kicked by residents and business owners in the crack-infested neighborhood.


The Press, Grand Rapids, MI, 2/12/94
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1994
The burglar who broke into Joseph Thompson's Saranac, Michigan, home hit Thompson in the face with a steel pipe as he slept, breaking Thompson's jaw. But that didn't stop Thompson from nabbing his assailant and holding him for police. The crook had stopped at the home earlier in the evening, professing car trouble, and returned later when Thompson was asleep and assaulted him. After a struggle, Thompson managed to get a rifle and held the intruder for police.


The Free Press, Detroit, MI, 3/24/93
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/1993
While an address book may not be the ideal substitute for a bullet-resistant vest, Detroit grocer Salim Mansour owes his life to the one he keeps in his breast pocket. It stopped a bullet fired by one of three robbers who invaded his store. Mansour pulled his own .38 and killed one criminal; the others were caught by police. "He's showing the book to everybody," the grocer's cousin said.

The Journal, Flint, MI, 1/13/93
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1993
Trying on a pair of shoes was just an act for a criminal who then pulled a knife and demanded money. When the man advanced, the Flint, Mich., shoestore owner drew his pistol and fired, critically wounding the would-be robber.


The State Journal, Lansing, MI, 4/19/92
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/1992
Hearing screams near their Maple Rapids, Mich., home, Louis and Cindy Ward investigated and found a 65-lb. pit bull attacking an 11-year-old neighbor. As Cindy calmed the girl and distracted the dog into ceasing its attack, Louis grabbed a shotgun. Hoping to draw the animal away, Louis picked up a stick and threw it, but when the dog came after him, Ward shot and killed it. Police credited Ward's actions with saving the girl's life.


The Journal, Flint, MI, 1/10/92
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1992
The only thing betwen her children and the man breaking into her home was a shotgun, and a Flint, Mich., woman took full advantage of the fact that she was armed. As the intruder broke through the door, the woman hid her two children under a table, knelt in front of it, and when he enterd the room, fired several blasts from the pump gun. The wounded prison parolee fled, but police apprehended him by following a trail of blood.


The Free Press, Detroit, MI, 5/29/91
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/1991
Cedric Brown was in his Lakepoint, Mich., home when several masked men burst in, screaming "police" and demanding money. As one hit him with a crowbar and covered him with a gun, others went upstairs and accosted his wife and son. Brown, howver, seizing the advantage, yanked a .45 from under his couch and killed his assailant. The other intruders fled when they heard Brown's shots.


The Macomb Daily, Mount Clemens, MI, 5/29/91
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/1991
Sleeping in the basement of the family home, a 15-year-old Detroit, Mich., area boy was awakened by the sound of someone moving around the house. Getting a shotgun out of a closet, he confronted one of two intruders. Ordered to stand still, the 16-year-old burglar instead came at the armed teen, who fired two shots, wounding him and putting him to flight. The wounded youth was hospitalized and an accomplice arrested.


The Saturday Journal, Flint, MI, 1/12/91
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1991
Unaware that he was picking the wrong target, an armed robber demanded money from Flint, Mich., storeowner. Getting the money, he fled, pursued by two employees who were armed with a gun kept in the store. Responding police found the pair sitting on the criminal, caught after a two-block chase.


The Gazette, Kalamazoo, MI, 3/3/91
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1991
A burglar believed responsible for two other intrusions at Mike Meck's Kalamazoo, Mich., home picked the wrong time for his third attempt. Meck, asleep on the couch, woke to the sounds of forced entry and grabbed his shotgun. When the man broke through the door and menaced him with a baseball bat, Meck responded with a single blast, wounding the intruder and putting him to flight.


The Osceola-Lake Extra Edition, Cadillac, MI, 9/4/90
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/1990
Budget cuts to the local sheriff's department forced an Evart, Mich., householder to call on his neighbors when his home was fired on by the spurned boyfriend of his daughter, who threatened to kill him and his family. Robert Pugh, one of seven armed neighbors to respond, traded shots with the criminal, who surrendered to Pugh after a standoff of about 30 minutes.


The Press & Guide, Dearborn, MI, 2/22/90
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1990
A Dearborn, Mich., woman answered the two men claiming to be police knocking at the door of her two-story apartment by calling to them from her balcony and asking for identification. When they attempted to break in, she yelled that she had a gun, then fired a warning shot that sent them fleeing.


The News, Saginaw, MI, 8/6/90
State: MI
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1990
Versia R. Jones, a 67-year-old widow, fired two shots from her bed at a man who had broken into her Saginaw, Mich., house. The intruder immediately fled, turning up later at a hospital for treatment of his gunshot wound.


and these were just a few and were ONLY from Michigan....

 

[DaleM]

OWNED? In his mind no, porn is his escape from reality.

 

[dougwg]

Ok Rochard, you want to quote stuff, I can play along...#2

These are from YOUR town :burn:

The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 05/13/06
State: ca
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2006
Mike Smith was napping when the sound of someone breaking into his home jarred him back to consciousness. He clutched a .38-caliber pistol with one hand and dialed 9-1-1 with the other. According to reports, when he stepped into the hallway, he saw the silhouette of a man through his window blinds and an alleged female burglar in the foyer. When she stepped toward him, he gripped the pistol with both hands and fired several shots. Both suspects fled. The woman was apprehended by police and was taken to the hospital, where she was listed in stable condition. Her male accomplice was still being sought. "There's no doubt that committing burglary is extremely dangerous ... because you don't know ... if the homeowner is going to be armed," said Sgt. Terrell Marshall of the Sacramento Police Department.


Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 01/08/04
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2004
Ivory Grayson responded to a knock at his front door early one morning. The young man on his doorstep asked for Grayson's grandson. The 65-year-old homeowner replied that his grandson was not there. During the conversation at his front door, Grayson noticed a second man trying to hide from view. When the two men returned and knocked on his door again, Grayson retrieved a handgun before answering. Both men were armed, and they forced their way into the home. Grayson took cover behind a living room chair and "a gun battle ensued," reported Sacramento police spokesman Sgt. Justin Risley. Grayson exchanged gunfire with one of the armed intruders and killed the gunman. He then exchanged fire with the second man at the front of the house, until the intruder fled.


The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 08/31/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/2003
A bank robbery went awry when the suspects crashed their getaway car in a Sacramento, Calif., suburb and took off running to evade authorities. Ed Tippets was in his back yard, watching several helicopters bear down on his neighborhood, obviously searching for someone, when he noticed his dog, Charley, was acting strange. "That's when I decided to get armed," he told authorities. Tippets recalled that he went to the back of his house to load his gun and then began searching room to room. Moving toward the kitchen, Tippets noticed a shoulder in the doorway of his laundry room. "I saw a pistol pointing at me, so I started firing," he said. The homeowner then ran outside where he was ordered to the ground by police. The suspect, later identified as Jermain Blair, fled the house and tried to escape by jumping several fences. Blair confronted two police officers who had given chase and was shot in the leg. A police task force is investigating 13 other local bank robberies that may be linked to Blair.


The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA, 03/05/03
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2003
Chad Lewis answered a knock at the door of his Sacramento County, Calif., home late one night and was attacked by a frightening figure. The home invader, wearing a ski mask and armed with a metal pipe, struck Lewis repeatedly on the upper body and head. Lewis' roommate was recovering from knee surgery and could not physically assist him, but managed to call 9-1-1 and get hold of his rifle, as he feared Lewis would be killed in the attack. Meanwhile, Lewis broke free from his assailant and retrieved a handgun from his bedroom. A struggle ensued over the gun, but Lewis was finally able to pull free and shoot his attacker. When authorities arrived, both Lewis and the intruder were taken to the hospital. Lewis' condition was serious, and his attacker was in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the head.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 1/31/96
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1996
Charles Robinson and his wife, Jan, had just closed their Sacramento, California, pizzeria when two thugs shoved revolvers in their backs and ordered them to the gound of the parking lot. With the day's receipts taken from him, Robinson heard gunfire erupt. Fearing that his wife had been shot, the businessman leapt to his feet and pulled a handgun from his waistband. Shots were exchanged and the crooks, one of them wounded, fled. Police soon stopped the suspects' speeding car, arresting one and taking the other to a hospital where he died. Robinson's wife was not hurt.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 7/12/94
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/1994
It was a hot night in Sacramento, so 80-year-old Lillian Carlson left her porch door open when she went to bed. This provided easy access for an intruder, who appeared in the bedroom. Carlson reached for the gun she has kept in her nightstand for 50 years, aimed it at her unwelcome guest, and said, "You can live or die. Which is it going to be?" The culprit walked out and walked back in. Two shots from Carlson's antique revolver convinced him to leave for good. Police arrested a wounded suspect the next morning.


The Union, Sacramento, CA, 12/10/91
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 2/1/1992
After witnessing a pair of bank-robbery suspects flee on bicycles, Sacramento, Calif., area brothers Frank and Michael DeVol jumped into their truck and started the chase. While following the men, Frank pulled a pistol from under his seat, and Michael passed him cartridges for the gun. Pulling up beside one of the men, Frank ordered him to the ground and held him for police.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 5/22/91
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/1991
Tied up and robbed several months earlier, a 70-year-old Sacramento, Calif., woman decided she would be ready and purchased a handgun. When two men--apparently the same robbers--kicked in the door and pulled the telephone wires from the wall, the woman got her gun and started shooting. The men fled, but one collapsed in the driveway with a mortal wound. Police found masks, latex gloves, a police scanner and a gun on the dead man.


The Union, Sacramento, CA, 12/12/87
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1988
Saveng Saveng, the owner of a Sacramento, Calif., grocery store, had been burglarized twice in one night. When he heard a prowler trying to enter through a boarded-up hole, he told the intruder to stay out. Saveng had armed himself with a semi-automatic rifle and called police, but when the burglar entered, yelling threats and obscenities, and rushed at Saveng, the merchant opened fire, killing the man. Police deemed the shooting justifiable.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 1/22/87
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1987
Sacramento, Calif., apartment manager Joseph Harshaw was told to evict a tenant. The tenant came to Harshaw's apartment, and, after the men talked awhile, the man pulled a butcher knife. The manager's cousin wrestled the man outside, and Harshaw ordered him off the property. When the knife-wielder came at Harshaw, who was armed with a .357 Mag., the manager warned him off. When the man continued to advance, the Vietnam veteran fired when his assailant was about 3 ft. away, fatally wounding him.

The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 1/24/87
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1987
When a man kicked in the door of Vicki Stroud's Sacramento, Calif., home and began beating her, Stroud's 16-year-old son told the intruder to stop. As the attack continued, the boy went into his mother's bedroom, got a .357 Mag. and returned to fatally shoot his mother's assailant. Police said the shooting was justifiable.


Coin World, CA, 3/5/86
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/1986
The man who walked into Charles Duncan's coin shop didn't look like a coin collector, so the Sacramento, Calif., businessman was ready when the man pulled a pistol. Diving into a back room as the gunman opened fire, Duncan grabbed a shotgun and fired a blast through a partition. His quick actions managed to scare off the robber, who later had to explain to police how he got buckshot imbedded in his backside.


The Union, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/1986
Crouching in the bedroom of her Sacramento, Calif., apartment, Judith Scott heard burglars break down two doors as they tried to elude police who interrupted their burglary of her adjoining video store. As they approached her room, Scott opened fire and wounded one. The burglars were arrested. Scott, who had been robbed and her store burglarized previously, had taken a firearms course offered by Sacramento police.


The Union, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/1985
When a 26-yr.-old Sacramento, Calif., woman answered her front door, two men sprayed her with Mace, tied her up, and began ransacking her home. While the thieves were looting her possessions, the woman freed herself and retrieved a pistol. One of the men was shot once when he lunged for her and again during a struggle. Both robbers fled, but a man seeking help for gunshot wounds at a local hospital was considered a suspect.


The Union, Sacramento, CA, 6/7/83
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/1983
In a rural area near Sacramento, Calif., farmer Tchaka Muhammed saw a young man snatch a 15-year-old girl from a vehicle and shove her into a water-filled ditch. Muhammed drove to his nearby farm, summoned authorities, then returned to the scene with a shotgun and found an attack in progress. Though bleeding heavily from knife wounds, the girl broke free and received aid from a passing motorist while Muhammed held the assailant at gunpoint until police arrived.


The Union, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/1982
Minnie Storer and her husband, both 77, returned to their Sacramento, Calif., trailer home one evening to find a youthful burglar inside. When the hoodlum began to beat her husband, Mrs. Storer pulled a .38-cal. revolver from a chair and fired, hitting the assailant in the abdomen.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 4/10/81
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/1981
William Schjoth of Sacramento, Calif., was lying on his living room sofa when his wife let a stranger in to use the telephone. Suddenly the man opened fire on the 65-year-old Schjoth, who suffers from bone cancer. Schjoth rolled off the sofa and grabbed a .38 cal. revolver and fired twice at the hoodlum, hitting him in the chest. One police officer on the scene said of the incident, "we need more people who can take care of themselves."


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 1/1/81
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/1981
After two juveniles continually burglarized and vandalized her Sacramento, Calif., home for two years, Philippines immigrant Dee Yansenns finally decided not to take it anymore. She took a day off work and lay in wait. When the young hoodlums tried to break down her door, she fired a warning shot, then chased the pair down and held them for police. "I did what the police told me to do for two years," she said, "that got me nowhere. Finally...after it happened again, I told the officer I'd had it...I was going to wait and catch them myself."


The Bee, Sacramento, CA, 2/1/80
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/1980
When Douglas Elliott noticed a man pacing back and forth in front of his Sacramento, Calif., pharmacy, he picked up a pistol hidden under the counter. The suspicious man entered the store, grabbed a female clerk, and stuck a gun in her side. Seconds later, the clerk broke free, and before the gunman could react, Elliott shot and killed him.


The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1980
A bandit armed with a pistol walked into a Sacramento, Calif., liquor store and robbed its owner of cash, liquor, and cigarettes. As the robber was leaving the store, he fired a shot at the owner but missed. The owner then pulled his own pistol and shot the gunman in the chest, killing him instantly.


The Union, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/1978
Wayne Johnson was in the office of his Sacramento, Calif., restaurant when a masked robber entered, waved a pistol, and ordered the cashier to empty the cash register. Johnson, hearing the commotion, got a gun from the restaurant safe and confronted the bandit. During an exchange of shots in which Johnson suffered a minor wound, the gunman was killed.


The Sacramento Bee, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/1975
Sacramento, Calif., coin shop operator Darwin Reiswig was getting into his car to drive home when a man pressed a gun to his head and ordered him to open his store. Pretending to reach into his pocket for the store keys, Reiswig instead drew a gun and fired three times, seriously wounding the would-be thief. Reiswig then grabbed the man's gun and called to a passerby to summon police.


San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/1973
As he lives alone, Rodney Davis was surprised to find the TV going when he entered his Sacramento, Calif., home. He was even more surprised to find a parachute in the living room and a stranger asleep in his favorie chair. The man, later identified as an amateur ski-diver, had eaten half the food in the refrigerator. Davis got a shotgun and held the trespasser for the police.


Examiner-Chronicle, San Francisco, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/1967
As Joseph Lobue was closing his Sacramento, Calif., tavern for the night, two hooded robbers armed with pistols jumped him. Lobue pulled his own gun and pointed it at them. "It looks like a standoff," said one robber. Both fled empty-handed.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/1967
Two Sacramento, Calif., brothers, Daniel and Michael Valverde, were alerted in the early morning hours by noises at the rear of their home. Arming themselves with a shotgun they found three men loading a truck with property from a neighbor's garage. Daniel held the men at gunpoint while his brother summoned the police. Sheriff John Misterly commented: "We could use more good work such as this by citizens. I compliment them."


Daily Journal, Ukiah, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/1967
Pearl Ferguson, a Sacramento, Calif., veteran of four previous holdups in her little grocery store, was accosted by an armed thug who said, "This is a stickup." "Go ahead and shoot," she replied. As the gunman edged towards her, Mrs. Ferguson reached for a hidden pistol, cocked it, and pointed it at the startled bandit. He fled into the street shouting, "Don't shoot, I give up, I give up."


The Bee, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 12/1/1964
Frank McMinn heard noises in the kitchen of his Sacramento, Calif., home, left his bed, and picked up a shotgun. Going to the kitchen, McMinn surprised two men who quickly started out the back door. He fired at one, and when police arrived they found one of the intruders in the back yard suffering from shotgun wounds.


Bee, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/1963
Edward Novak was awakened at 3 A.M. in his Sacramento, Calif., home by the sound of breaking glass. Grabbing his .45 pistol he ran outside in time to see three men carrying arm-loads of clothing from a men's store next door. He called on the burglars to stand still. Two men ran, but the third waited at gun point until a passing off-duty detective took him into custody.


The Union, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 3/1/1960
After being robbed in his Sacramento, Calif., apartment of $1100, restaurant owner Louis Jim Chong armed himself with a cal. .380 pistol. Chong was watching television when he was alerted by a figure sneaking past the window. When a knock came on the door and Chong opened it, the robber who had previously victimized him lunged in. The restaurateur shot him 3 times and ran for police. The critically wounded bandit fled to a getaway car and his 3 confederates. All were captured by police as they headed for a hospital.


The Bee, Sacramento, CA
State: CA
American Rifleman Issue: 7/1/1959
Estquio Banayat, co-owner of a Sacramento, Calif., grocery, was sweeping the floor when a gunman entered and demanded the money. Partner Damaso Gumangan sensed trouble and emerged from the living quarters in the rear with a cal. .32 pistol. One shot from the bandit went wild and the grocer fired, hitting the gunman in the shoulder. Police arrested the felon.

 

[DaleM]

American rifleman rules, Rochard is a retard.

 

[spinscan]

Your wrong.

The Constitution was written hundreds of years ago. It was written in a time when you had to carry a gun for protection because there was no law enforcement, and in the event we were invaded by another country it would take months for an armed miltia to respond. The framers of the Constitution had no idea we would become a nation with millions of people.

I'm a former United States Marine. I've fired every gun under the sun from handguns, rifles, shotguns, sub machine guns, and machine guns so big I couldn't carry them.

Someone explain to me why we need guns?

Are you worried about someone breaking into your house? Then perhaps you need to move or get a very large dog. I keep my doors locked, my home alarm on, and I own a dog.

Do you really mean to tell me that if someone breaks into your house your going to suddenly wake up, pull a handgun out of the nightstand, and kill someone? Chances are by the time you wake up it's already too late. And if you tell me that thirty seconds after you wake at 3am in the morning your perfectly alert and able to handle a gun - I'll tell you your high.

Then comes my favorite part.... You shoot someone who breaks into your house, there's a good chance your going to jail. And if you don't - the intruders family will sue you.

Hunting is the only reason anyone should own a gun. And you don't go hunting with handguns.

Brilliant.

 

[YesterdayAgain]

And while yes I do work in porn, I do have problems with "freedom of speech".

Freedom of speech for me = "the right to say what you want about your government". It's the freedom to be able to speak freely about your government without fearing being locked up for the rest of your life for what you've said. Freedom of speech is not burning a flag. You have the right to protest all you want, but you do not have the right to burn the American flag.

So you basically think two of the most fundamental and important parts of the Constitution are junk. While I think your intent is good, I think you lack a basic understanding of the "balance" of the Constitution and what removing certain areas you don't agree with would do to the country. Not good times. Not good logic.

 

[XCELR8]

Your wrong.

Oh, the irony.

The Constitution was written hundreds of years ago. It was written in a time when you had to carry a gun for protection because there was no law enforcement, and in the event we were invaded by another country it would take months for an armed miltia to respond. The framers of the Constitution had no idea we would become a nation with millions of people.

I'm a former United States Marine. I've fired every gun under the sun from handguns, rifles, shotguns, sub machine guns, and machine guns so big I couldn't carry them.

Someone explain to me why we need guns?

Are you worried about someone breaking into your house? Then perhaps you need to move or get a very large dog. I keep my doors locked, my home alarm on, and I own a dog.

Do you really mean to tell me that if someone breaks into your house your going to suddenly wake up, pull a handgun out of the nightstand, and kill someone? Chances are by the time you wake up it's already too late. And if you tell me that thirty seconds after you wake at 3am in the morning your perfectly alert and able to handle a gun - I'll tell you your high.

Then comes my favorite part.... You shoot someone who breaks into your house, there's a good chance your going to jail. And if you don't - the intruders family will sue you.

You fit the typical Californian point of view well, but the fact that you were a jarhead is irrelevant in this argument.

Hunting is the only reason anyone should own a gun. And you don't go hunting with handguns.

Hunting isn't necessary. If you're hungry, go to Taco Bell.

P.S. Hunting with a handgun is a common occurance.

 

[XCELR8]

A gun serves only one person - to kill.

Really? I have half a dozen weapons, including an assault rifle and I have yet to kill anyone, or anything for that matter with them.

Shooting/marksmanship is a sport/hobby. Much like you feel the need to have a supercharged Cobra as a mode of transportation.

 

[harry gilbert]

I don't think it's fair to say that our rights (within the realm of gun ownership/possession) are being whittled away. Just this past weekend I took the training course for my CCH license for the state of KS. More & more states are opening up to the idea of allowing concealed carry because it IS statistically proven to reduce crimes committed against fellow citizens.....or maybe the states are just caving to their constituents' pressure. Either way, it's happening & I'm getting mine. I'll be toting my favorite flavor of .45 legally soon enough.

With all due respect: anyone applying for a CCW has given up his RIGHT to keep and bear arms in exchange for accepting the granting of the state's PRIVILEGE, predicated on meeting whatever qualifications the state wishes to impose on which firearms may be possessed (a la Kalifornia), how and where carried, and what training must be taken before a revokable privilege is granted. IMHO, that is infringement.

Yes, I agree that law-abiding citizens carrying firearms reduces crime; however, it is your RIGHT to do so, not a privilege to be granted or withheld by any government.

 

[harry gilbert]

A gun serves only one person - to kill.

That is :bs: A gun is designed to shoot a projectile. I use my guns to shoot at targets. I have "killed" a lot of paper, clay, bowling balls, steel animals, paper plates, and NECO wafers.