Tell me about it

[boostm3]

Guys, first let me say Ive never even owned an american car. Im what youd call a more 'mature' driver if you get my drift. In college, I drove VW bugs, and '59 MGAs and stuff like that, just to give you an idea. But now, Ford comes out with this amazing car. Just amazing. To get 390 hp and ft lbs (arent real readings closer to 410? Havent they dynoed at near 360 rwhp or more?), with .92 skid pad numbers, 4.5 0-60 and 12 sec quarters, etc, all for 35 grand, well, I just think they have something very special here.

Ok..now, I come from the bimmer world. For the last 3.5 years, Ive owned a '99 M3 which Ive modded up with all kinds of go fast goodies, including a Dinan supercharger. The car is making 350 rwhp, and its no slouch either. But now, I find I may have a transmission problem. Next week its going to the dealer, and if they replace the tranny under warranty (I have 9 mos left on the new car warranty), fine. But if they dont want to cover it, instead of springing for like $4000 for a tranny replacement, Im thinking, I can probably take it to an SVT dealer and trade it straight up for a new Cobra! And its sounding more appealing to me by the minute. But, you wouldnt believe all the crap Im taking from my erstwhile bimmerbuddies.

So, you guys tell me. What will I notice if I switch to this car? They say its lacking the 'refinement' of the bimmer. But refinement is hard to quantify. Are the seat stitches crooked? Is the plastic cheap and the seams dont line up? Is the leather paper-like? Does it squeek and rattle over bumps? These are the things which comprise 'refinement' to me. What else.. What are some other things Id notice on the down side if I made this switch?

I guess the next thing I should do is find an sVT dealer near me, and try and get a test drive. Is that even possible? I know there were many Vette dealers who wouldnt even give a Z06 test drive. Is it the same for the Cobra? And what about MSRP + ? How likely am I to find a local dealer willing to deal at MSRP? Hell... arent they making 12,000 of these? That doesnt exactly sound like a shortage. Maybe now theyre charging MSRPplus, but I cant imagine that with this quantity, it'll last for long.

Ok guys I guess thats about it. Just trying to get a feel of the lay of the land over here. And, thanks!:coolman:

 

[03ShadowCobra]

I really doubt that they will trade you straight up for an 03 Cobra. You have alot into you M but performance mods usually only hurt the resale value of the car especially if the tranny is junk. But if they do you will definetly be impressed. My friend has a supercharged CLK55 and my Cobra will usually out run his car. He has beat me but usually that because of my piss poor driving skills. Anyway good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[Brad]

Originally posted by boostm3
Guys, first let me say Ive never even owned an american car. Im what youd call a more 'mature' driver if you get my drift. In college, I drove VW bugs, and '59 MGAs and stuff like that, just to give you an idea. But now, Ford comes out with this amazing car. Just amazing. To get 390 hp and ft lbs (arent real readings closer to 410? Havent they dynoed at near 360 rwhp or more?), with .92 skid pad numbers, 4.5 0-60 and 12 sec quarters, etc, all for 35 grand, well, I just think they have something very special here.

Ok..now, I come from the bimmer world. For the last 3.5 years, Ive owned a '99 M3 which Ive modded up with all kinds of go fast goodies, including a Dinan supercharger. The car is making 350 rwhp, and its no slouch either. But now, I find I may have a transmission problem. Next week its going to the dealer, and if they replace the tranny under warranty (I have 9 mos left on the new car warranty), fine. But if they dont want to cover it, instead of springing for like $4000 for a tranny replacement, Im thinking, I can probably take it to an SVT dealer and trade it straight up for a new Cobra! And its sounding more appealing to me by the minute. But, you wouldnt believe all the crap Im taking from my erstwhile bimmerbuddies.

So, you guys tell me. What will I notice if I switch to this car? They say its lacking the 'refinement' of the bimmer. But refinement is hard to quantify. Are the seat stitches crooked? Is the plastic cheap and the seams dont line up? Is the leather paper-like? Does it squeek and rattle over bumps? These are the things which comprise 'refinement' to me. What else.. What are some other things Id notice on the down side if I made this switch?

I guess the next thing I should do is find an sVT dealer near me, and try and get a test drive. Is that even possible? I know there were many Vette dealers who wouldnt even give a Z06 test drive. Is it the same for the Cobra? And what about MSRP + ? How likely am I to find a local dealer willing to deal at MSRP? Hell... arent they making 12,000 of these? That doesnt exactly sound like a shortage. Maybe now theyre charging MSRPplus, but I cant imagine that with this quantity, it'll last for long.

Ok guys I guess thats about it. Just trying to get a feel of the lay of the land over here. And, thanks!:coolman:

I wouldnt put more than high 20's on a 99 m3 neither would most ford dealers. You will not find a new cobra on a used car lot, and a new ford dealer will not keep an m3 on the lot to sell, they will just swap it. Most dealers will not let you test drive either. Also most dealers that have 03 cobra on the lot, want 5k+ over MSRP. Where are you located? I have a few connections around these parts.:-D

 

[boostm3]

Seriously, no test drive? No way will I get a Cobra coming from an M3 without a test drive. You know how they say in all the articles how with an M3, steering the car in the twisties is like the car knows where the road is going before you even steer it? Its often described as a subliminal feeling. Well, Id certainly want to see how much of that is being sacrificed by going to the cobra. As far as trading it, it doesnt have to be a straight up trade. For me if its within 10 grand somewhere, thats fine. But not without a test drive. As for the tranny, its not ruined..Matter of fact, once the car is warmed up, noone could tell it even has a problem. And drivers unfamiliar with M3s wouldnt know it even when cold! Besides I'll probably get it fixed anyway. As for MSRPplus, with 12000 cobras being made, how long do you thing dealers will keep that up! BTW, you guys might get a kick out of this. There's a video over at bimmerforums in the kill section from a guy who used to own a turboed M3 who now has a 561 hp supra.

http://www.luckybmw.com/videos/BRAD600HPSUPRA+NEWSVTCOBRA.WMV

Somehow, he hooked up with a new Cobra, and naturally, blew his doors off. I dont know what hes so self-satisfied about though. I mean, with 561hp, its modded to the gills, so whats the big deal about killing a factory car anyway!

 

[Blue03Cobra]

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

If you want an extremely fast factory blown V8 car (that can be made a rocket sled for $1500 or less) with gobs of tire smoking torque, that is still based on the '79 Fairmont...the Cobra is for you.

The bimmer is a more highly refined, much more expensive, base car to begin with and a rev-happy I-6 for a motor.

The Cobra is still a Mustang and it will take practice learning the clutch and transmission to be able to drive it without clunking and thumping. It is a stout drivetrain. The BMW's is more refined, but adding a supercharger obviously took its toll on yours. The T-56 in the Cobra may be balky, but will not be the weak link (see recent half-shaft, drag threads) and will handle significant HP increases.

Some dealers will allow test drives, some won't. If a customer ordered that particular car, I doubt they will let you drive it.

All I know is don't take a ride in a chip/pullied car...you won't hesitate to make the decision :-D

 

[key2you]

I believe there making less then 10k in 03.

 

[boostm3]

>>The BMW's is more refined, but adding a supercharger obviously took its toll on yours.<<

I have to correct you here. The glitch in my tranny has nothing to do with that. There are several stock owners who have the same issue. Its just not a power related thing. But I am not thrilled with some of the quality issues. RSMs dont last. Rear shock towers have sheet metal that tears and cracks, and now the tranny issue. Surprising on a car this expensive. Hell, sounds like I might as well have bought a ford for chrissake! (just kidding). But what you say is why I want to test drive it. I love the power and i love the torque. But I dont know how happy Id be giving up the sublime steering feel for the road, and balky shifters never appealed much to me. Maybe there is too big a difference. What I was hoping for was a car that handles like my M3, with the torque of the stang. Guess I just proved the old adage, you get what you pay for. Or in this case, if you want the handling of the M with the power of the Stang, better be prepped to spend over 80 grand! LOL. But I'll never know without a test drive to compare them. You know, before I bought the M I was shopping vettes. Those bozos too didnt give me a test drive either. I guess they can sell enough to the died in the wool fans. But its sure no way to win converts. I'll just fall in love with my M again, I guess. not hard to do with 410 hp.

 

[boostm3]

believe there making less then 10k in 03

Maybe. MotorTrend says 12000.

 

[boostm3]

>>Where are you located? I have a few connections around these parts.<<

Metro NY. Westchester County. 10606 area code. Ford doesnt make it easy to find these svt dealers either. At the ford svt site, on dealer search, I get 4 pages of dealers, but when you 'search inventory', none of them come up with any SVTs at all! what a joke.

 

[ZXnVS]

I considered an M3 before I bought my '03 Cobra. On the inside it's a night-and-day difference between the two: the Cobra dash is an endless expanse of drab, gray plastic. Luckily the seats are not standard Mustang issue, so the leather is nice and the embroidered Cobra is a nice touch. My first several mods were interior "appearance" mods since power is not the Cobra's weak link.

Handling is far beyond a normal Mustang (or any typical muscle car) but probably not up to your M3, which is usually considered one of the best handling cars (stock) on the planet. There's quite a weight difference here, and you'll definitely notice it.

If prestige is important to you, keep your M3. While many non-BMW owners will mistake an M3 for a lesser 3-series, almost everyone will mistake a Cobra for a regular Mustang, or even the V-6. The differences are subtle to the uninitiated.

 

[ygohome]

what will you notice if you switch to 03 Cobra?

well, if you've ever driven an american car than you'll know they like plastic.

I fear I'm going to get flamed but.... you'll notice a few more squeeks and rattles than your probably used to. But just keep reminding yourself everyonce in awhile by stomping on the peddle about why you decided to go with the Cobra (the engine!).

You will not be dissapointed with it, that's for sure. But you will notice that it is american made.

:beer:

 

[haskett]

Expect squeeks and rattles. Expect build quality that is below the BMW standard. Expect lots of plastic in the interior. Expect less creature comforts. Expect to be mistaken for a Mustang (not necessarily a bad thing, depending on your perspective). Expect sale departments and service departments that are not necessarily customer service oriented.

Expect lots of power. Expect lots of fun. Expect, with very little money, the ability to make more power than you can put on the pavement. Expect to be a part of a great enthusiast community.

 

[boostm3]

>>Expect squeeks and rattles. Expect build quality that is below the BMW standard. Expect lots of plastic in the interior<<

Thanks guys. So far the comments have been real helpful. I do have a tiny bit of exposure to the cobras. An aquaintance of mine had a '95 or '96, I think. before the current body style. What I found with that car is that there was loads of body roll, it clanked around corners (wasnt that before IRS?), and had loads of NVH issues. I would never have considered buying one of those. But.... Isnt the '03 a very different animal? Honestly, if thats more hype than truth, then its not for me. The hype, and the car mag reviews, and motorweek on line, etc have all led me to believe this is a different kind of animal. Sure its derived from the same platform, but that doesnt mean that they cant get rid of alot of the faults it used to have.... Thats why the dealers need to give guys like me a test drive. Either that, or I need to develop a new friend that owns one. Too bad my current friends are alot of M3 owners. Aint that often the way it is!

 

[MidLifeC]

If you want refinement, upgrade to an M5. Won't the new one have 500 HP? The ride on a Cobra is very harsh, you will feel all the bumps and cracks in the road. It is not put together as well as the BMW. What it is, is a damn good value for $35K if you value straight line performance. I believe 90% of that $10K premium (over a GT) went into the drivetrain. Very stout.

Good luck on a test drive, I understand very few dealers are allowing it.

 

[03rocks]

Car and Driver, Motor Trend and Automobile Magazine have always talked down in a way of previous Mustangs in general. With regards to the 03 Cobra though many of them have given Ford well deserved props. Ford has come a long way since the Fairmont with the platform. The 03 is an amazing car with tons of potential for either road racing or the drags. As for the creeks and squeeks subframe connectors will help prevent that.

I had no problem at all finding a dealer that would let me test drive.

 

[Blue03Cobra]

Originally posted by boostm3
An aquaintance of mine had a '95 or '96, I think. before the current body style. What I found with that car is that there was loads of body roll, it clanked around corners (wasnt that before IRS?), and had loads of NVH issues. I would never have considered buying one of those. But.... Isnt the '03 a very different animal?

If it's a 5.0 pushrod it's a '94/5. If it's a DOHC 4.6, it's a '96-98.

Having traded a '98 Cobra (last year for the solid axle) for the '03, I'll tell you that the '03 is light years ahead. The Bilstein gas struts/shocks and higher rate springs make the '03 an exceptional handler (very little body roll), where my '98 would bounce and push through corners. Daily driving the IRS in the '03 is a dream compared to the solid axle.

Don't get me wrong, the '98 was a great car. The '03 is significantly better, in all areas. It is amazing just how sophisticated Ford has made a 20+ y.o. basic design :-D

If you're in South Texas, I'll give you a ride :thumbsup:

 

[2thman]

BoostM3,
Like many on this board, I considered both the m3 and the cobra. I actually test drove both of them, on the same day back to back. Here is a thread on the topic that might be of interest http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16880

Bet you can guess which one I liked better;-) I also did a 'demo' of the cobra for one of my good friends, who is a BMW fanatic (his last 3 cars all M3's, wife has 540i) He was always saying that he could not believe I bought the Ford, BMW is so much better yada yada.. Afterward he had the biggest damn grin on his face and said HE might go look at one.

jason

 

[StreetStalker]

I turned my 2000 BMW M Roadster in for 03 Cobra. So far I am really happy with my decision. Tell you the truth, I don't think the BMW was built that well. I was expecting way better dealer service and build quality for such an expensive car. The BMW would burn a quart of oil every 1000 from new. That seems like an awful lot. I was real easy on it too. That is just my opinion. Also, the BMW rattled alot more than my Mustang. It might be the fact that the Mustang is new and the BMW was a convertable but that is just what I have noticed.

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by boostm3
>>Expect squeeks and rattles. Expect build quality that is below the BMW standard. Expect lots of plastic in the interior<<

Thanks guys. So far the comments have been real helpful. I do have a tiny bit of exposure to the cobras. An aquaintance of mine had a '95 or '96, I think. before the current body style. What I found with that car is that there was loads of body roll, it clanked around corners (wasnt that before IRS?), and had loads of NVH issues. I would never have considered buying one of those. But.... Isnt the '03 a very different animal? Honestly, if thats more hype than truth, then its not for me. The hype, and the car mag reviews, and motorweek on line, etc have all led me to believe this is a different kind of animal. Sure its derived from the same platform, but that doesnt mean that they cant get rid of alot of the faults it used to have.... Thats why the dealers need to give guys like me a test drive. Either that, or I need to develop a new friend that owns one. Too bad my current friends are alot of M3 owners. Aint that often the way it is!

BoostM3,
Go into that R forum and talk to Andy. He had a M5 and now has a Cobra R. He might be some help on the handling questions, assuming the M3 and M5 have simular handling traits. I am sure Andy would be more than willing to help.

Brian

 

[boostm3]

>>I turned my 2000 BMW M Roadster in for 03 Cobra. So far I am really happy with my decision. Tell you the truth, I don't think the BMW was built that well. I was expecting way better dealer service and build quality for such an expensive car. The BMW would burn a quart of oil every 1000 from new. That seems like an awful lot<<

yea Yea.... Thats right! In Spades!! Burns oil alot. The RSMs (Rear Shock MOunts...see they even have their own initials cause they break so often) need replacement frequently as the bushings always pull lose. The Rear Shock towers are Too Weak. I needed min weld plate reinforced 4 mos ago as they were cracking. And now we apparently have this transmission weakness. In addition, like you say, in general, you get no better service at these dealers than I bet you get at SVT dealers. At least we get loaner cars if we srvc where we bought it. But I bet you guys get that too, right? So, given that there appear to be several points of weakness, and a not superior dealer network, alot of the panache is off the image. What youve got left is a nice looking, moderately powered car, that corners beautifully, and handles very very well. But like any car, its got plusses and minuses. I knew as soon as I drove it home (I didnt even ask for a test drive in the M3. Thats how convinced I was by the hype and the auto mags that this was the car for me) that I was going to have to to help the power. NOw dont get me wrong. 5.5 0-60 out of the factory is nothing to sneeze at... Especially a few years ago. But I was coming from a boosted '95 Volvo 850 Turbo with 280 hp, and this M3 didnt cut it for me. So, after a Dinan Superharger upgrade ($10 grand!), and another 3 psi upgrade, I finally got a 400+ hp car. Combined with the typical M3 handling, upgraded too with a Dinan Koni suspension, this seems like one ideal car by most people's standards. Yea, I love it. But, I dont care what kind of car it is, we gearheads have a way, after about 4 years, of wanting to sample new wares. I just think its in our bones. Objectively, there's probably not a whole lot an SVT Cobra is going to do that mine cant. We both run 4.5 0-60. You will beat me by a few tenths in the quarter, but I'll win a road course. So, why am I considering changing? Im not even sure! I think I just admire what Ford has done for 35 grand. That, and the massive torque advantage that you have. You know, I dynoed 290 rear wheel torque, which is like 350 crank torque, so you dont have that big a torque advantage. And our HP is very even. And, Im almost 500 lbs lighter! Hey. Ive got an idea which might help alot. Any brand new SVT owners in the Westchester County, NY area want to swap test drives? You can test drive my supercharged M3, if I can test drive your SVT Cobra. Doesnt that sound like fun? Instructive too :--) Just let me know. Im in between jobs, as it were, so any time is good for me.