The facts: GM Synchromesh v. Red Line

Cobra'03

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I finally was able to get one of my lubrication buddies at the SAE to look up GM's specification for its Synchromesh product.

"GM Synchromesh is formulated with high quality paraffinic base stocks, a multifunctional performance additive, a fluidity modifier, a shear stable viscosity index improver, corrosion inhibitors, and a foam suppressor. It offers excellent synchronizer performance, oxidation stability, yellow metal compatibility, and low temperature performance. This product will satisfactorily lubricate manual transaxles/transmissions from –40F to +300F."

So, this basically confirms my speculations that this is essentially a fortified motor oil, or can be viewed conversely as a light gear oil lacking EP additives conforming to GL-4 or GL-5 specs. It does not contain any synthetic lubricant components.

Let's look at its chemical properties:
cST 40degC: 41.6
cST 100degC: 9.08
Pour point: -50
Flash point: 385degF
Color: amber

Let's look at Red Line D4ATF (typical ATF formulation)
cST 40degC: 34.0
cST 100degC: 7.5
Pour point: -60
Flash point: 437degF
Color: Red

Let's look at Red Line MTL
cST 40degC: 50.8
cST 100degC: 10.2
Pour point: -50
Flash point: 450degF
Color: Red

Let's look at Amsoil ATF
cST 40degC: 36.0
cST 100degC: 7.5
Pour point: -69
Flash point: 432degF
Color: Red
************************************************
So what do we make of all this? Well, GMS is a non-synthetic formulation, so it can be expected to change its properties over time, due to less stable base stocks and shear strength, and higher volatility. This is partly reflected by its 50 deg lower flash point than the synthetic competition. It does have higher viscosity than the ATF's, but lower than MTL.

As I have previously stated, GMS (and other specialized gear lubes including a Mopar spec) were developed primarily to deal with the special needs of some GM transmissions, particularly ones (like the Getrag and the ZF) which use yellow metal synchronizers. GM found that conventional gear oils, especially ones with GL-5 specification, often contained active sulphur compounds, which damaged the synchros. Going to a specific GM specification ensured less warranty claims, less rejection of claims by the German mfrs, and less consumer complaints. A good idea.

Now, does that make it a good choice for the T-56? Well, according to TTC's own website, they recommend Dexron III (Mercon V) for the Cobra and Corvette, or Castrol Syntorque (Dodge Viper). Nowhere on the TTC site does it recommend GMS - that appears to be one of those Internet "somebody told my brother who told me" stories.

GM gets a lot of $'s for a mineral oil-based product. Red Line and Amsoil use Group V (ester) and Group IV (PAO) synthetic lubricants respectively. There is very little likelihood that GMS will have anywhere near the service life of the synthetic products, neither of which has any components which will harm any of the T-56's internals, includings its carbon blocker rings or metal synchronizers. GMS will likely thicken over its service life, due to evaporative factors, resulting in reduced cold-weather performance, and the greater likelihood of deposits. If you use it, change it every 30k miles would be my recommendation. It is also amber in color - a dead giveaway if the dealer checks it or if the tranny fails.

But why use it? If you want thicker viscosity and stronger film strength, there is Red Line's MTL - essentially a light gear oil with the component properties and additives of an ATF. It has a flash point 65degF higher than GMS.

Now, I cannot comment on the shiftability or "feel" of the various lubricants, other than to note that the TTC T-56 ostensibly was designed to use ATF-type lubricants, and that is what Tremec, GM, Ford, and Chrysler recommend. One would have to wonder how the "feel" and mechanical performance engineered into the product using the ATF-family of lubricants could be bettered by a lubricant designed for other applications, and not even recommneded by its distributor (GM) for its own cars using the T-56. Doesn't make sense, does it?
 

MidLifeC

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Cobra'03:

Wow!

Now can you translate for us non-engineers? Does RedLine MTL provide the best lubrication and coating properties?

TIA.
 

dougwg

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From what my "guy" said... and I think cobra'03 will agree....

As far as "provide the best lubrication and coating properties" they will all do the job...

The problem comes from the fluid being so "slippery" that the Blocker rings in the T-56 can't "grab" like they're supposed to and they don't slow the gears down fast enough to make a "fast" shift..

I think if you want really "smooth" shifts ...use Redline MTL or GM Synchromesh

If you want to shift "fast" use Redline D4ATF

I also found out that the Blocker rings "soak up" the fluid... so simply changing fluid is not the BEST TEST.....(because the blocker rings are contaminated with that old fluid) but rather use new blocker rings when you change fluid ,,,,, for a more difinitive test.

BTW: Cobra'03, remind me never to doubt your research ability... :beer: and might I add ... Great post!
 

HotRodHarry

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Just from my experience...I am using the GM synchromesh and have never missed a shift or heard a complaint from my trans. Its been in there since 500 miles....I have 1495 miles now ...not many miles...but they have been fun miles with a happy smile all the way. The GM stuff works....of course a good shifter helps too. I learned about the GM Synchro from Nitrous Pete back in November when I put it in.

Harry
www.HotRodHarrys.com
2003 Cobra (22 lbs of boost and nitrous..yep..stock Eaton too)
 

totaled

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Syncrohmesh here also based on Rick and Pete's recommendations. I orginally changed to Redline D4 based on Cobra03's post but it made MY tranny very hard to shift???? I swithced to Syncrohmesh and it is like a different tranny very smooth and never a missed gear :thumbsup:
 

dougwg

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I think we're gunna put up some sticky note on the wall with the names of different tranny fluids on them and throw a fricken dart!..........:bash:
 

Cobra'03

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Ha ha ha - can't people decide for themselves based on the available info?

I just threw in some Amsoil ATF today to further complicate things! I inspected the magnet in my drain plug and it looked pretty clean - no dark stuff, and no metal shavings. So the MTL has not harmed anything as far as I can tell - of course, my car just celebrated its 1st year of life, and I just rolled over 2000 miles! And the tranny has had...1,2,3, 4 fluid changes! Are we crazy or what?

Just for the record, I never said GMS was bad - but it will certainly have less service life, and was not designed for our trannies, and is a dead giveaway.

Doug, I agree that the carbon blocking rings have porosity and will absorb some fluid, but I think the effect is minimal, since the action is still somewhat cushioned by whatever lube is in the tranny, and also the fact that the fluid will soon displace by pressure and liquid motion the residual previous fluid in a short time.

One thing I would not do is put any friction modifier in there - as I have seen some people say they did - BTW, Amsoil just developed its own FM if anyone needs it for their pumpkin.
Glenn.
 

08snake

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I have been running Redline MTL for about 4000 miles now and have had no problems. However Cobra'03, my car never sees outside air temp less than 70-75. Is this the best tranny fluid for me or is there something better, being here in Hawaii.....?
 

Cobra'03

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U have chosen well. If you are happy with the results, why worry about it? Hell, we could probably put Boar mucous in these trannies and they would do OK.
 

jonas

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i live in socal where its rarely ever under 60, Maybe Ill do the same and go with a synthetic mtl like redline
 

Snoker

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I changed to MTL, 03's recomendation, about 5500 miles ago. Change was done when outside temperatures in 20's and 30's. I have experienced no harder shifts with the MTL in cold weather than I did with factory fluid. The summer shifting is noticeably better with the MTL. Shifts are clean and solid. I am very satisfied with my choice.
 

caveman6666

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Originally posted by Cobra'03
Ha ha ha - can't people decide for themselves based on the available info?


Wish I could. After reading everything I could find on the subject, I'm still at a loss to choose. I'm certainly not happy with the hard way it shifts with the stock fluid in there, and not certain if a fluid change would improve it, or it's just the way the tranny it.:shrug:
 

03 COBRA SB

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Originally posted by Cobra10thaniv
So has there been any changes in anyones mind?

first tranny fluid change was to Mobil 1 atf, i had a hard time getting a smooth 1 to 2 shift, changed to Red-line D-4, never have had a problem sense., to bad it doesn't fix the TOB.
 

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