Total bridge collapse in Baltimore...

[Bensin]

 

[lOOKnGO]

The chances of never having an allision is never Zero. This tragedy makes the point. As stated before, tugs moved everything around that area when I was a kid. Not to have Dauphins in place for buttress protection is asinine. All private airplane pilots must check their fuel as a part of the preflight inspection. No waver should be expected for a ship of this size either. All the letter certifications and redundant technology will never supercede common sense. This is an example of complete design failure on many levels.

 

[ford fanatic]

**** him, he's a complete ****ing idiot. That's on Maryland's ass. I don't live there.

I live in Maryland, and that bridge was my commute, it's literally right outside my office. They're surely going to raise our tolls to fund this.

I completely agree that Maryland/boat insurance should pay. But if Buyden is going to piss away money, i'd much rather see US Government money stay in the US rather than going to the Ukraine.

 

[VegasMichael]

Confirmed by Sonar and TMA conducted by yours truly. Those big ships are fast movers - not as fast as a torpedo though.

I remember when on the Carl Vinson all divisions had a small room where there was a tv, vcr, board games, etc. One of the channels on the tv was a live feed of the water and the speed at which the ship was currently traveling. Several times we would see the speed at 30 knots and you could literally feel the ship increasing speed but the 30 knot speed stayed pegged on the screen and never went above. We would all look at each other and chuckle.

 

[Lambeau]

pete will make sure the new FSK Bridge is equitable, not racist.

 

[BrunotheBoxer]

My background is mechanical and marine engineering with a concentration on nuclear, the first eight years were with A4Ws and S6Gs, so Bubbleheads and Nukes from the start. I am not a licensed mariner, but I have either managed the design, managed the construction, or managed the overhaul/repair of various vessel types since 1988. One phase of my career was Testing & Commissioning of both Naval and Commercial vessels. Part of that is developing/performing Design Verification Test Procedure (DVTP), Failure Mode Effect Analysis (FMEA), and Periodical Safety Test Procedure (PSTP). These tests are Regulatory requirements (NAVSEA, ABS, USCG) to prevent what happened in Baltimore. You go through a series of single point failures to show how the design prevents the vessel from being in a position of helplessness, which is what happened here.

Another phase was final delivery requirements prior to customer acceptance. I have spent many hours on the bridge with Masters/Captains/Mates and many hours in the ER/ECR with Chief Engineers, 1st Engs, etc. I was also a dockmaster for a few years (I would bring vessels into a graving drydock, pump out the water until she landed on the blocks safely and in correct position, then pump the balance of the water), so I have worked with docking and river/bay pilots.

If they had a lower tier of QMED swapping the filters, he may have been lucky previously and not had any issues with either vacuum or trapped air when working the Racor assemblies. I agree that having all of the filters impact at the same time is a long shot, but I have experienced worse issues that I thought could never happen. The other variable that I cannot recall for this class is if she had a shaft generator so that the arrangement would have been 4 ea SSDGs and a single shaft generator, backed up by the Egen that should be located in the aft machinery casing, where the stacks (exhaust piping) can be seen in between the container stacks. If not the filters, I would lean towards dirty fuel. I am also curious if the Engineers keep the sets of generators segregated (2 feeding from port, 2 feeding from stbd for fuel) similar to Dynamic Positioning rated vessels for redundancy (that does not appear to have worked based upon the outages).

One other fact, this vessel is rated for "Periodically Unattended Machinery Space". That means that the engine room can run on automation for a Regulatory approved period of time WITHOUT any engineers legally being required in the engine room on watch. So, if the watch engineers were out of the ER, and things started failing, the Power Management System or Machinery Automation Monitoring System started cycling through generators failure after failure. Alarms were probably going off, and the Chief Engineer who was probably asleep had his alarm panel in the Day Room or Stateroom screaming, and called down asking "WTF is going on"? The Engineer on Watch probably hauled ass down to the ER or ECR but was too late to keep the plant online, stable before the allision.

The vessel is not diesel electric in the sense that the main propulsion is from a large motor, powered by generators. This vessel has a Hyundai Heavy Industries diesel engine directly coupled to the main propulsion shaft (900mm Bore, 3,260mm Stroke, 41,480 kW @ 82.5 RPM).

I am curious if Ports will change how assist tugs work with vessels transiting under bridges in small channels/harbors going forward. Typically, they are only there to give the vessel "nudges" on command from the docking pilot to counter another force (wind, current, wash coming back from the berth), and they are not typically made up to the ship because the evolution is so quick combined with the capabilities of the vessel. I believe the docking pilot is a McAllister Tug captain from the Baltimore office. Once they are away from the berth, he turns it over to the river or bay pilot and departs the vessel onto one of the assist tugs, or with the other pilot at the buoy.

This is very long, but the conspiracy theories are nonsense, so hopefully this will help eliminate those types of posts. The important issue is that 6 people who were trying to provide for their families and worked a difficult/dangerous job are not going home. The good things out of this is that the ABs or Deckies that worked the anchor windlasses to release the chains/anchors got out of there before they were crushed by the bridge structure, and the Pilot issued a Mayday in advance for crossing traffic. I feel sorry for the vessel Captain and the Pilot. I know the Pilot, and she was very good at her job. She is NOT a DEI hire, so that BS that is being cycled also pisses me off. I have been in vessel bridges during near misses and my posterior was puckered. The feeling of helplessness is the only way I can explain it, and is very uncomfortable. They have to live with this for the rest of their lives, and it is not because they were not doing everything they could to prevent it.

Have you spent any time up at the Mass Maritime Academy?

I knew a mechanic there that was a part time pilot for the cape cod canal.

 

[*Jay*]

pete will make sure the new FSK Bridge is equitable, not racist.




View attachment 1834437

If this was satire I would be laughing my ass off, there is no way this level of stupidity could happen unless it was intentional.

 

[mysticsvt]

I know we always did fuel samples before and after taking on fuel in the Navy. Astern refueling was always fun. Side by Side was work! Mechanical failure for sure, let's see who cut corners, failed inspections, steps were skipped, PMS not conducted etc etc.

 

[2003RedfireVert]

How do so many mother ****ers here know so much shit.

If I want to feel retarded this is where I come.

Me: so.. boat lose power.. boat hit bridge .. bridge go boom

You guys: so the bilateral quadratic function of the radius trigonometry of the nuclear vessel at 8 knots times pi equals the relativity of the suspension to indeed bend at a 37 degree which caused…


Jesus ****ing Christ

I always think I’m going good until I come on here. I’m poor as ****, stupid, and inadequate in nearly everything. Thanks SVTP.

 

[CompOrange04GT]

I always think I’m going good until I come on here. I’m poor as ****, stupid, and inadequate in nearly everything. Thanks SVTP.

I know trucking.

I can tell you DOT by the book. Tell ya how to run a fleet.

Past that. I’m ****ing retarded.

Like every topic on here we legit have geniuses… and I realize how ****ing retarded I really am.

 

[RES0574]

Have you spent any time up at the Mass Maritime Academy?

I knew a mechanic there that was a part time pilot for the cape cod canal.

I have, I managed three of the drydockings for the TS Kennedy and the MARAD Port Engineer for that vessel is good friend of mine. Most of my visits to Mass are either to Buzzards Bay, Woods Hole (for NOAA and Oceanographic Institute), and South Boston (drydocks and the cruise ship terminal).

Two of my other good friends live in Abington and Brockton, so I get to pass by your old neighborhood at least twice a year. Drinking and playing shuffleboard at Conte.....

 

[03cobra#694]

I live in Maryland, and that bridge was my commute, it's literally right outside my office. They're surely going to raise our tolls to fund this.

I completely agree that Maryland/boat insurance should pay. But if Buyden is going to piss away money, i'd much rather see US Government money stay in the US rather than going to the Ukraine.

I was just going off on the potato, not you. I know you live there and saw your pictures from your office the other day.

 

[BrunotheBoxer]

I have, I managed three of the drydockings for the TS Kennedy and the MARAD Port Engineer for that vessel is good friend of mine. Most of my visits to Mass are either to Buzzards Bay, Woods Hole (for NOAA and Oceanographic Institute), and South Boston (drydocks and the cruise ship terminal).

Two of my other good friends live in Abington and Brockton, so I get to pass by your old neighborhood at least twice a year. Drinking and playing shuffleboard at Conte.....

Pretty ****in cool. I used to do a lot of boating up there. Buzzards bay cape cod canal onset bay woods hole passage Hadley harbor Martha’s Vineyard etc. Used to leave my boat at fiddlers cove.

Was a great time in my life but the conditions could go to horror in an instant.

 

[blk02edge]

My background is mechanical and marine engineering with a concentration on nuclear, the first eight years were with A4Ws and S6Gs, so Bubbleheads and Nukes from the start. I am not a licensed mariner, but I have either managed the design, managed the construction, or managed the overhaul/repair of various vessel types since 1988. One phase of my career was Testing & Commissioning of both Naval and Commercial vessels. Part of that is developing/performing Design Verification Test Procedure (DVTP), Failure Mode Effect Analysis (FMEA), and Periodical Safety Test Procedure (PSTP). These tests are Regulatory requirements (NAVSEA, ABS, USCG) to prevent what happened in Baltimore. You go through a series of single point failures to show how the design prevents the vessel from being in a position of helplessness, which is what happened here.

Another phase was final delivery requirements prior to customer acceptance. I have spent many hours on the bridge with Masters/Captains/Mates and many hours in the ER/ECR with Chief Engineers, 1st Engs, etc. I was also a dockmaster for a few years (I would bring vessels into a graving drydock, pump out the water until she landed on the blocks safely and in correct position, then pump the balance of the water), so I have worked with docking and river/bay pilots.

If they had a lower tier of QMED swapping the filters, he may have been lucky previously and not had any issues with either vacuum or trapped air when working the Racor assemblies. I agree that having all of the filters impact at the same time is a long shot, but I have experienced worse issues that I thought could never happen. The other variable that I cannot recall for this class is if she had a shaft generator so that the arrangement would have been 4 ea SSDGs and a single shaft generator, backed up by the Egen that should be located in the aft machinery casing, where the stacks (exhaust piping) can be seen in between the container stacks. If not the filters, I would lean towards dirty fuel. I am also curious if the Engineers keep the sets of generators segregated (2 feeding from port, 2 feeding from stbd for fuel) similar to Dynamic Positioning rated vessels for redundancy (that does not appear to have worked based upon the outages).

One other fact, this vessel is rated for "Periodically Unattended Machinery Space". That means that the engine room can run on automation for a Regulatory approved period of time WITHOUT any engineers legally being required in the engine room on watch. So, if the watch engineers were out of the ER, and things started failing, the Power Management System or Machinery Automation Monitoring System started cycling through generators failure after failure. Alarms were probably going off, and the Chief Engineer who was probably asleep had his alarm panel in the Day Room or Stateroom screaming, and called down asking "WTF is going on"? The Engineer on Watch probably hauled ass down to the ER or ECR but was too late to keep the plant online, stable before the allision.

The vessel is not diesel electric in the sense that the main propulsion is from a large motor, powered by generators. This vessel has a Hyundai Heavy Industries diesel engine directly coupled to the main propulsion shaft (900mm Bore, 3,260mm Stroke, 41,480 kW @ 82.5 RPM).

I am curious if Ports will change how assist tugs work with vessels transiting under bridges in small channels/harbors going forward. Typically, they are only there to give the vessel "nudges" on command from the docking pilot to counter another force (wind, current, wash coming back from the berth), and they are not typically made up to the ship because the evolution is so quick combined with the capabilities of the vessel. I believe the docking pilot is a McAllister Tug captain from the Baltimore office. Once they are away from the berth, he turns it over to the river or bay pilot and departs the vessel onto one of the assist tugs, or with the other pilot at the buoy.

This is very long, but the conspiracy theories are nonsense, so hopefully this will help eliminate those types of posts. The important issue is that 6 people who were trying to provide for their families and worked a difficult/dangerous job are not going home. The good things out of this is that the ABs or Deckies that worked the anchor windlasses to release the chains/anchors got out of there before they were crushed by the bridge structure, and the Pilot issued a Mayday in advance for crossing traffic. I feel sorry for the vessel Captain and the Pilot. I know the Pilot, and she was very good at her job. She is NOT a DEI hire, so that BS that is being cycled also pisses me off. I have been in vessel bridges during near misses and my posterior was puckered. The feeling of helplessness is the only way I can explain it, and is very uncomfortable. They have to live with this for the rest of their lives, and it is not because they were not doing everything they could to prevent it.

Tezz likes this

 

[Tezz500]

Tezz likes this

He could have left out Nukes and I would have already known.

Holy wall of text. Shit.

 

[03cobra#694]

He could have left out Nukes and I would have already known.

Holy wall of text. Shit.

It was pretty sweet to read. I'm impressed.

 

[Tezz500]

It was pretty sweet to read. I'm impressed.

One thing all them Nuke boys are is thorough.

 

[03cobra#694]

One thing all them Nuke boys are is thorough.

Can't imagine why.

 

[VegasMichael]

One thing all them Nuke boys are is thorough.

Not many of them use paragraph breaks like him though. He knows we need those to stay focused.

 

[mysticsvt]

I have, I managed three of the drydockings for the TS Kennedy and the MARAD Port Engineer for that vessel is good friend of mine. Most of my visits to Mass are either to Buzzards Bay, Woods Hole (for NOAA and Oceanographic Institute), and South Boston (drydocks and the cruise ship terminal).

Two of my other good friends live in Abington and Brockton, so I get to pass by your old neighborhood at least twice a year. Drinking and playing shuffleboard at Conte.....

Have not managed anything...but been a part of a ton of them. You might have found this interesting. I was on the Blue Marlin for a month taking the USS Raven and USS Cardinal from Ingleside, Tx to Manama, Bahrain. Took as about a month at 18 knots. Was a fun trip with the Russians! Brings dry dock to another level. This trip was just before the Blue Marlin brought the USS Cole home.