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DMotorsports

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It matters to me because it's damaging to the "new" image of the Mustang brand. As with the last Boss 302 and with this upcoming GT350, Ford is trying to evolve the brand. Unfortunately, there is still that disproportionately vocal minority of people/shops out there that only want to drive in a straight line for a few seconds at a time. For crying out loud, the Mustang is 50 years old! There comes a point when it's simply time to grow up. Everyone. These shops focus on dragging because it's fast and easy money. Let's be honest here. It's a whole lot easier to get a car to cut 2 seconds off an ET than it is to cut 2 seconds off a road course time. The latter takes some careful thought and engineering. The former just takes more power without blowing up the engine and a suspension comparable to riding a cooked alfredo noodle down a water slide.

I mean, which would be more useful on a day-to-day basis? A car that is more nimble and swift on its feet or a car that will roll over like a Yorkie at the first sight of a curve? In all actuality, everyone can benefit from a car that can handle well. Very few can benefit from a car setup for dragging. Just going for a drive in the country you're apt to encounter every kind of turn and undulation you would hit on a road course. Not much chance you're going to encounter a rubberized intersection with glassy smooth road ahead waiting for the light to turn green.

Holding on to that drag mentality just gives the Mustang a bad image. Personally, I'm tired of hearing/reading from the uninformed that the Mustang can't turn. That hasn't been true for years, but thanks to the folks who ruin a good handling car for the sake of blasting down a straight line, that is the image that soldiers on in peoples' minds about the Mustang. It's why people insist on calling a pony car a muscle car. The Mustang was never intended to be a muscle car. Its beginning was to be a cheap alternative to the European sports cars. Hell, even Carroll Shelby used Mustangs to beat Corvettes on the race track, and he did a la GT350/GT350R. It's so cringe-worthy seeing a Boss sitting on a drag suspension that I don't even watch videos that people post of one going down a damned dragstrip. Why couldn't that person/builder just have used a regular GT, instead? Yeah, yeah. Their money, their choice. Blah blah blah.

So yes, it matters to me on a personal level that people ruin Mustangs that were meant to handle. Does that mean everyone has to agree with me? Nope. But I wish they would! :) I guess I can at least take solace in that they aren't going to make a convertible version of the GT350 (nor did they the Boss 302.) Don't even get me started on that! LOL

Well said. I too cringe when I see a Boss 302 that has been set up as a drag car. However, to each their own. That's just not what I would choose to do with a Boss 302 if I had one, but it's their money to spend how they want. I had started down the drag route with my GT500, but have recently come to the realization that I would rather maintain some decent street manners so I can enjoy it more often. I'm sure there are a few that will attempt to do the same with the GT350, but with this engine and the Tremec 3160, I think they'll hit a few road blocks when they do the usual "slap on some forced induction and some slicks."
 
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GT Premi

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Yep. They're probably going to hit more roadblocks than it's even worth. And I'm glad about it. Maybe it will get them to leave it alone to be what it's intended to be.
 

DMotorsports

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Removing the brakes on the GT350 and replacing them with some spindly, lightweight, smaller ones so as to fit 15's out back. Replacing the factory k-member with something from Granatelli (Jesus...). Bolting in some fiberglass shell seats from Jegs or Summit Racing. Yanking the MR system for some drag only shocks.

Egads...

I have to admit that I did vomit a little bit in my mouth at the thought of this.
 

97desertCobra

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I found this part most interesting:



I guess that answers people's questions about throwing a turbo on it. They're going to have quite the task on their hands to get it to work and still be liveable. I'm sure somebody is going to try, though. .

All that quote really says is that Ford and SVT intended the GT350 to be a n/a track beast from the start, it speaks nothing to the strength of internals. I suspect that like the Boss 302 and the 2000 Cobra R the GT350 will have one of if not these strongest rotating assemblies Ford has ever produced. The only thing I can think of immediately that won't be high boost friendly is the compression ratio.
 

91z28350

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Don't get me wrong, at the expense of lower performance on the strip, I have biased my GT 500 as a street car first and foremost (albeit one with a MMR Built 1500+, sleeved to 5.8, KB 3.6 etc), but it doesn't bother me if someone decides to go all out. Lost in the argument is my total agreement that I personally would not gut this car to make it a drag shell.

There is definitely a high degree of interest on my part for this car as a road course car to go along with my GT500 as a street/strip car, best of both worlds in the garage.
 

J_Roc

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On the other side of the token, a lot of r&d comes out of these shops primarily focused on drag racing. If they want to test the waters on power mods, then more data and potentially cheaper prices for us more interested in the road course.
 

SlowSVT

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From everything I've seen the flat plane crank seems to be somewhat of a mixed bag. Sounds like Ford had their hands full tying to get the dynamics right. Should be interesting seeing how this engine responds to mods but I can tell you your going to have an up-hill battle trying to get more power out of that mill NA (this is what happened in the motorcycle industry). I wonder what the objection to supercharging is all about if it's something inherent in the design. Boost pounding away at those throws may have undesirable affects. I'm sure we will know soon enough.
 

04svtsnke

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From everything I've seen the flat plane crank seems to be somewhat of a mixed bag. Sounds like Ford had their hands full tying to get the dynamics right. Should be interesting seeing how this engine responds to mods but I can tell you your going to have an up-hill battle trying to get more power out of that mill NA (this is what happened in the motorcycle industry). I wonder what the objection to supercharging is all about if it's something inherent in the design. Boost pounding away at those throws may have undesirable affects. I'm sure we will know soon enough.

Although we don't know the full spreadsheet of part used in the motor, the compression ratio and inherent design of FPC engines dictates light, weaker components to handle the higher rpm. Those components are probably not good for boosting although I'm sure this motor will be able to take some boost.
 

IamRacerX

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This thread is about the weight being approximately a base GT... 36xx...I sure hope so!
As far as why the fpc and no blower, this car is a track focussed. Imo there will be a GT500 for the high hp straight line buyers.
Take a look at the new C7 Z06... it appears to suffer from tuning to reduce power after just a few laps to protect the car from heat build up. By going na the engine will be more consistent lap after lap.
 

tt335ci03cobra

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From everything I've seen the flat plane crank seems to be somewhat of a mixed bag. Sounds like Ford had their hands full tying to get the dynamics right. Should be interesting seeing how this engine responds to mods but I can tell you your going to have an up-hill battle trying to get more power out of that mill NA (this is what happened in the motorcycle industry). I wonder what the objection to supercharging is all about if it's something inherent in the design. Boost pounding away at those throws may have undesirable affects. I'm sure we will know soon enough.

I'd actually say getting about 75-100whp from full exhaust, bolt ons and tune shouldn't be too hard.

A few things that lead me to think so:

The Ferrari 458 Italia's 4.5L v8 makes 563hp stock, 480whp+, and that's considerably high like 125hp/L. The voodoo is relatively plebeian at 100-105hp/L (expected). No it's not as capable or cammed as a 458's. It's also not as optimized though. There's plenty of room to grow. The nearly maxed out 597hp 4.5L stradale actually picks up over 50whp from equal length headers, full exhaust and a tune. That's 133hp/L picking another 50whp... Just nuts. Fpc's have about 15-20% more power potential vs cpc's.

If cpc 12 boss 5.0's are making 500-530whp cammed and full bolt on/tune, and 470whp (stock cams), I'm expecting the 5.2 to love na mods as well.

If a boss roadrunner can make 535-600 engine hp na built up, I'm expecting, the fpc to make upto about 700hp na, ~625whp. That's cammed and so on, but even full bolt ons/tune, I won't be surprised if 550whp happens.

Best part is taking an fpc from 8300 to 9200rpms has much bigger gains /L vs a cpc because of the flow supporting design. Less restriction means more power production /L, and that should be great-plus the sound will be epic.

If they can get 3550-3600lbs factory weight, I'd imagine one with full bolt ons/headers back, custom lighter race wheels, and a few suspension tweaks could too the scales at 3450lbs. With 550whp it'd be an absolute blast, and cammed at 600+whp with 3.90's or more, it would be incredible.

An sc shouldn't be necessary. There are plenty of other mustangs for boost duty IMO. If boost is desired, build a rotating assembly for 8500rpms tops, cam it for boost, and build a kit.

Everybody wins, just that boost builders will have to build a rotating assembly this time around. A drop in the bucket compared to the base price and price of building an fi system sc or turbo.
 

SlowSVT

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I'd actually say getting about 75-100whp from full exhaust, bolt ons and tune shouldn't be too hard.

A few things that lead me to think so:

The Ferrari 458 Italia's 4.5L v8 makes 563hp stock, 480whp+, and that's considerably high like 125hp/L. The voodoo is relatively plebeian at 100-105hp/L (expected). No it's not as capable or cammed as a 458's. It's also not as optimized though. There's plenty of room to grow. The nearly maxed out 597hp 4.5L stradale actually picks up over 50whp from equal length headers, full exhaust and a tune. That's 133hp/L picking another 50whp... Just nuts. Fpc's have about 15-20% more power potential vs cpc's.

If cpc 12 boss 5.0's are making 500-530whp cammed and full bolt on/tune, and 470whp (stock cams), I'm expecting the 5.2 to love na mods as well.

If a boss roadrunner can make 535-600 engine hp na built up, I'm expecting, the fpc to make upto about 700hp na, ~625whp. That's cammed and so on, but even full bolt ons/tune, I won't be surprised if 550whp happens.

Best part is taking an fpc from 8300 to 9200rpms has much bigger gains /L vs a cpc because of the flow supporting design. Less restriction means more power production /L, and that should be great-plus the sound will be epic.

If they can get 3550-3600lbs factory weight, I'd imagine one with full bolt ons/headers back, custom lighter race wheels, and a few suspension tweaks could too the scales at 3450lbs. With 550whp it'd be an absolute blast, and cammed at 600+whp with 3.90's or more, it would be incredible.

An sc shouldn't be necessary. There are plenty of other mustangs for boost duty IMO. If boost is desired, build a rotating assembly for 8500rpms tops, cam it for boost, and build a kit.

Everybody wins, just that boost builders will have to build a rotating assembly this time around. A drop in the bucket compared to the base price and price of building an fi system sc or turbo.

Agree, I don't see to many people shelling out big coin for a GT350 and then put a blower on it, that why they make the GT500 but I'm sure a few will. The power levels being floated around for this engine are amazing. The variable cam timing and high flow induction system is allowing Ford to extend the rev range. 8000 rpm redline! :eek: I wonder how much seat pressure they are running on the valves I'm sure it more than 62. It's only a matter of time before a few "crazies" push this engine to 10 grand who knows we may see some spectacular engine failures (melted pistons get kinda boring after a while). I'll always be a forced induction guy. NA engines requires a lot more "finesse" to make power where a blower just overwhelms everything. High revs beats up on the engine but they are more reliable then FI engines which go "poff" pretty easily :nonono:

Ford getting it down to 3600 lbs is not likely. The chassis just got stiffer than the S197 and heavier just like it's done since they built the wet noodle Fox. Lightweight parts only take you so far before stripping stuff off the car.

It's all good :thumbsup:
 

Tob

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...the compression ratio and inherent design of FPC engines dictates light, weaker components to handle the higher rpm.

Considering the rpm ceiling/approximate power levels that the 5.2 engine will see along with commensurate inertial loads, combustion chamber forces, wrist pin moments, etc, I don't see Ford engineering a rotating assembly (or valvetrain for that matter) with minimum Factor of Safety specifications being any lower than any other "performance" engine in their current (or previous) lineup. How exotic they decide to go in terms of materials remains to be seen but I would expect this specific engine to utilize every cost effective measure possible so as to ensure a very robust assembly with some rather stout internals.
 

04svtsnke

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Considering the rpm ceiling/approximate power levels that the 5.2 engine will see along with commensurate inertial loads, combustion chamber forces, wrist pin moments, etc, I don't see Ford engineering a rotating assembly (or valvetrain for that matter) with minimum Factor of Safety specifications being any lower than any other "performance" engine in their current (or previous) lineup. How exotic they decide to go in terms of materials remains to be seen but I would expect this specific engine to utilize every cost effective measure possible so as to ensure a very robust assembly with some rather stout internals.
This would make me very very happy! It's what I'm praying for as I plan to have one in a few years.
 

Tob

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I have little doubt that the crank will be a masterpiece and a step above a typical "production" piece. It's the connecting rods that have me waiting with bated breath. While I suspect a PM piece is part of the plan I'd really like to see a return to the '03/'04 Cobra line of thinking (or better).
 

DMotorsports

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While "real" forged rods are most certainly better, I feel like the powder forged rods have gotten an unnecessary bad name. The rods in the GT500 have seemed to hold up admirably to the 700rwhp mark, and there have been some make it closer to 800rwhp without rod failure. In my opinion, that's spectacular for a factory connecting rod. If you're wanting to push the power higher than that, you probably should be tearing into your engine to address some other issues as well, such as the oil pump, valve springs, etc. Anyway, I won't be disappointed if it has powder forged rods, but will take it as a bonus if it has something better.

On the original subject of weight, I think a curb weight of 36xx lbs could be great in this car. For comparison, C7 Z06 has a curb weight of 3,533, and that car is getting amazing reviews. Not that I expect this car to perform to the same level as the C7 Z06, but just to show what a car of similar weight is capable of doing.
 

jtfx6552

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The Ferrari has the same bore and less stroke, and can go to 9k if I'm not mistaken. The 5.2 is never going to get the same hp per liter. When is Detroit? I really want to see what this thing is rated for!
 

biminiLX

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The Ferrari has the same bore and less stroke, and can go to 9k if I'm not mistaken. The 5.2 is never going to get the same hp per liter. When is Detroit? I really want to see what this thing is rated for!

I think none of us want to spend Ferrari money, so having less specific output targets are fine with me, as will be more useable mid-range torque from extra stroke.
I'm also interested in seeing a vortech/procharger at low boost to compliment the FPC benefits.
Hopefully Detroit NAIAS gives us more engine technical data.
-J
 

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