Weld craft not widening super snake rims anymore

[CPRsm]

I believe the Alcoa that he widened had a replacement inner/back section. I don't know how else you would get by with one bead when widening?? :shrug:

Hell yeah. Look very clean.
Never heard anything about any weldcraft stuff failing, ever. But as a fab guy I know AL welds are very weak. To me, the less welding the better. This costs more because of the extra rim you are paying for, but worth it to me.

 

[Robert M]

Talked to Eric today. He received my 2 rims from Shelby faster than I thought.
I talked to him breifly about what he was gonna do. He said he cuts 2" off rim and then welds in a new inner section adding 3.75" inner hoop. I don't mind if I loose the alcoa info off as I know it's real rims and worth the trade off. He said should have wheels done or be working on them by end of next week.
He also said after finishing up wheels he would clean them then scotch brite the inside of the rim to help make the new material match the original rim. Said it would look good.
He seems very knowledgeable about what he is doing.

Gonna pm you to start talking tires and best sizes.

Loosing the Alcoa info. is not such a big deal to me either, I was just wondering what he did to get a one weld appearance.....

I've done some additional tire research, I think the 345/25 Invo's are going to look "thick" on a 11.75"-12" rim. They are spec'ed at 12-13" rim and are even fatter than the PS2's. The PS2's spec'ed at 13.5" section width, the Invo's at 13.66. The invo's are also a full inch shorter than the original diameter at 26.6" vs. 27.7. If I had not spent the $$$ for the 325/30 Dunlops my next choice for a nice fit would be the 335/30 Pirelli P Zero's, they are narrower than the 335/30 Michelin PS2's 13.2 vs. 13.5.


Traction..............that is the big question? I don't know that any of these 335-345 20" tire combo's have been tested and compared for traction.


R

 

[CPRsm]

You're not going to gain much from 30mm. Especially putting a 335 on a 11.75. Less tread will actually be foot print that way.

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

So sounds like stick with the 335 or 325? I'm just curious as to how traction is with these brand tires. They seem more a street/cruiser tire than a racing tire.
I know that sounds weird but if I'm gonna spend that much money on a wide tire I would expect it to hook pretty good.

 

[Robert M]

So sounds like stick with the 335 or 325? I'm just curious as to how traction is with these brand tires. They seem more a street/cruiser tire than a racing tire.
I know that sounds weird but if I'm gonna spend that much money on a wide tire I would expect it to hook pretty good.

I have never lowered the pressure below what is normal for the street, but I can say that even at 35-38psi. the 325/30 Dunlop Sport Maxx tires grip much quicker/better than the 275/35's that were part of my Super Snake conversion, and the car does not look so "short changed" for traction on the rear.



R

 

[2nd2none]

"Yes that’s true ... I did post that on our website.
It is specific to the Super Snake wheels.
However your wheels and one other customers Shelby Super Snake wheels will get completed in the normal time frame.
Your wheels arrived on 11-10 ...
I have suspended those wheels temporarily until we work out a better way to finish down the weld beads and deal with some of them having too much run out.
I can and will personally work on your wheels to make sure there are no issues.
You should expect to hear from us around Dec. the 9th.
I do plan on modifying those wheels again in the near future.
Can’t believe though that Cruzin Customs refuses to sell only two wheels.
They have a lock on those wheels and are gouging folks.
We wanted to try a few things and I tried to purchase some of their wheels.
No discounts ... no exceptions ....
James"

When he says "Super Snake" wheels he means all of the Shelby Alcoas and not just the ones that come on an actual Super Snake. Mine are not actual Super Snake ones.

Well, I guess he decided to not give my wheels a try. Just got a call from someone else at Weldcraft saying they are gonna send mine back this week. He said the problem with the Alcoas is when they cut the rim a lot of them are getting distorted and they aren't sure why. He said James bought an extra set of these rims to test on but still hasn't figured out the problem. oh well, :shrug:

 

[Tob]

I've wondered about these wheels. Are they 6061 grade and are they stress relieved? I'm also wondering if their Dura-Bright finish, if improperly done, could be changing the base metallurgy and somehow inducing stresses into the wheel. Then, when cut, they deform...

 

[Robert M]

I've wondered about these wheels. Are they 6061 grade and are they stress relieved? I'm also wondering if their Dura-Bright finish, if improperly done, could be changing the base metallurgy and somehow inducing stresses into the wheel. Then, when cut, they deform...

I had a pair of 9's widened to 12 and have had no issues, in fact one wheel/tire combo balanced with no weight added and the other side required just a couple of stick-on squares. They also where very true when spun and checked for runout.

The only place that I see the Dura-Bright finish is on the face, once you get back into the wheel it looks like a regular aluminum wheel.



R

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Hopefully it's not a big issue. Fingers crossed.

Should hear back from Eric soon with a update.
Fed ex and ups have been here every day dropping off parts. :banana:
Can't wait to get them installed.

 

[2nd2none]

Hopefully it's not a big issue. Fingers crossed.

Should hear back from Eric soon with a update.
Fed ex and ups have been here every day dropping off parts. :banana:
Can't wait to get them installed.

Im gonna try and get a hold of Eric tomorrow. I'll prob just drive up to him and drop them off as soon as I get them back from Weldcraft since its only about 1.5-2 hours away. May I ask what hes charging you?

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Im gonna try and get a hold of Eric tomorrow. I'll prob just drive up to him and drop them off as soon as I get them back from Weldcraft since its only about 1.5-2 hours away. May I ask what hes charging you?

When my gf talked to him. He said 300 per wheel. Not sure if that's going rate or not but wanted them done so figured it was worth it.

 

[2nd2none]

When my gf talked to him. He said 300 per wheel. Not sure if that's going rate or not but wanted them done so figured it was worth it.

Thanks. Thats not bad at all. I've seen people post that Weldcraft charged 225, 250, and 275 per wheel. When I called they told me 275/wheel to add up to 2" and another $50 to have the welds grinded down. I think I read that Eric does the grinding down as part of the deal. Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow.

 

[Tob]

The only place that I see the Dura-Bright finish is on the face, once you get back into the wheel it looks like a regular aluminum wheel.


R

It isn't about what you see but rather the process. It has been mentioned that...

...the problem with the Alcoas is when they cut the rim a lot of them are getting distorted and they aren't sure why

I believe the patent number for the Dura-Bright coating is 20100021757. As Alcoa puts it "the patented treatment actually penetrates the aluminum, forming a protective barrier that becomes an integral part of the wheel." The patent mentions that "the aluminum surfaces have a temperature in the region of 280 to 350° C" during this process.

I'm no metallurgist -D) and I'm sure Alcoa has quite a bit of experience here, but if improperly done, you'll know when you cut the wheel in half. The specific grade aluminum alloy that Alcoa uses is 6061-T6..

All Alcoa forged wheels are made from one piece of 6061-T6 aluminum and manufactured to exceed OEM standards for ultimate strength and durability. One-piece forging design eliminates welds that concentrate stress where fatigue cracks can start.

(The red highlighted area is fodder for a different debate - see below)
From here.

Grain structure defects, improperly done heat treatment, etc, could all play a role in the fact that the some wheels are distorting when they are cut in half. It would be interesting to hear James comment on any issue he has run into with other forged wheels, when cut.


Of importance and directly from Alcoa...

 

[niceguyyy01]

So, when you guys are widening the wheels... it is essentially adding backspacing? Or does he machine the wheel to keep the original backspacing, or add half the desired addition to the rear? Like if you had him make a 9" wheel (with 5" BS) a 10.5" wheel, would the backspacing be 5.75" or would it now be 6.5"?

And one last question. Has anyone widened the stock 20" SVTPP 9.5" wheel?

 

[evasive]

We are adding material to the back.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[Robert M]

It isn't about what you see but rather the process. It has been mentioned that...



I believe the patent number for the Dura-Bright coating is 20100021757. As Alcoa puts it "the patented treatment actually penetrates the aluminum, forming a protective barrier that becomes an integral part of the wheel." The patent mentions that "the aluminum surfaces have a temperature in the region of 280 to 350° C" during this process.

I'm no metallurgist -D) and I'm sure Alcoa has quite a bit of experience here, but if improperly done, you'll know when you cut the wheel in half. The specific grade aluminum alloy that Alcoa uses is 6061-T6..

(The red highlighted area is fodder for a different debate - see below)
From here.

Grain structure defects, improperly done heat treatment, etc, could all play a role in the fact that the some wheels are distorting when they are cut in half. It would be interesting to hear James comment on any issue he has run into with other forged wheels, when cut.


Of importance and directly from Alcoa...

Specifically with the Super snake wheels, I wonder if something has changed in the Alcoa process? The reason why I ask is because James at Weldcraft has done many, many pairs of these wheels over the last 3+ years without issue, and now suddenly, there are problems?, especially at a time when Shelby has announced that they have discontinued the Alcoa?

Maybe these wheels are no longer U.S.A.?


I understand what you are saying in your post above, and during the time at Weldcraft weakening of the wheel would not be noticed if the two halves appeared to come back together nicely, but we are now talking about James seeing issues that were not apparent before, showing up on what appears to be all, or at least most all of the Alcoa's he is trying to widen, after the wheels have been cut and before the two halves are joined . You would think that if this distortion (once the wheels have been cut) was an issue on all Alcoa Dura-Brights, this issue would have showed up a couple of years ago? Something seems to be different now..........





R

 

[evasive]

Hmm, hopefully the one I had to buy a few months ago doesn't fall under this.

Perhaps Alcoa is going to come out with a wider version of some new wheel.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[Tob]

So, when you guys are widening the wheels... it is essentially adding backspacing? Or does he machine the wheel to keep the original backspacing, or add half the desired addition to the rear? Like if you had him make a 9" wheel (with 5" BS) a 10.5" wheel, would the backspacing be 5.75" or would it now be 6.5"?

And one last question. Has anyone widened the stock 20" SVTPP 9.5" wheel?

Yes, when James welds in a strip of material to the back side of the wheel he is effectively increasing the backspace dimension. See the following diagram...

Yes, there have been a few that have widened the 20" SVT PP wheels. This gentleman added two inches to the overall width (now 11.5") and also used an eighth inch wheel spacer...

Specifically with the Super snake wheels, I wonder if something has changed in the Alcoa process? The reason why I ask is because James at Weldcraft has done many, many pairs of these wheels over the last 2+ years without issue, and now suddenly, there are problems?, especially at a time when Shelby has announced that they have discontinued the Alcoa?

Maybe these wheels are no longer USA?

I understand what you are saying in your post above, and during the time at Weldcraft weakening of the wheel would not be noticed if the two halves appeared to come back together nicely, but we are now talking about Jemes seeing issues that were not apparent before, showing up on what appears to be all, or at least most all of the Alcoa's he is trying to widen before the two halves are joined . Something seems to be different now..........

R

Robert, I do not believe that Alcoa changed any part of their wheel finishing process. In looking at press releases from both past and present they make no mention of it.

I believe the wheels are made in Cleveland, Ohio.

Again, it'd be nice to hear James mention whether or not he was seeing random Alcoa wheel issues before. Maybe he did. Alcoa makes mistakes, as evidenced by a simple "Googling" of "Alcoa and recalls" (as much as the core of their wheel business is for large trucks).

 

[Robert M]

Yes, when James welds in a strip of material to the back side of the wheel he is effectively increasing the backspace dimension. See the following diagram...

Yes, there have been a few that have widened the 20" SVT PP wheels. This gentleman added two inches to the overall width (now 11.5") and also used an eighth inch wheel spacer...

Robert, I do not believe that Alcoa changed any part of their wheel finishing process. In looking at press releases from both past and present they make no mention of it.

I believe the wheels are made in Cleveland, Ohio.

Again, it'd be nice to hear James mention whether or not he was seeing random Alcoa wheel issues before. Maybe he did. Alcoa makes mistakes, as evidenced by a simple "Googling" of "Alcoa and recalls" (as much as the core of their wheel business is for large trucks).

Maybe that is what it is............a bad batch, or at least a bad batch for widening?


No one had mentioned this issue before on the TS Super Snake forum, but there are way more Alcoa owners out there who don't monitor TS to mention their widening experiences.

One thing that does seem to be apparent, James is now worried about having to spend $$$ now to replace Alcoa's and there has been no mention of that before.



R