That is where the 5.0 shines. You can get a foxbody on the cheap, and make serious power for not alot of money. I have about 15K in mine (all mods included) and it does everything a new Mustang will do......just faster. Alot of foxbody cars sacrifice creature comforts for going fast. I took a different approach. I have a/c, leather, nice stereo, good brakes, tight suspension, etc. In the end it really matters what you want. :beer:
What does it take our cars to run with 03 cobras
- Thread starter Adower
- Start date
That is where the 5.0 shines. You can get a foxbody on the cheap, and make serious power for not alot of money. I have about 15K in mine (all mods included) and it does everything a new Mustang will do......just faster. Alot of foxbody cars sacrifice creature comforts for going fast. I took a different approach. I have a/c, leather, nice stereo, good brakes, tight suspension, etc. In the end it really matters what you want. :beer:
same here. i still have A/C and everything. only fall back to mine is it has a C4. I may switch back to my TKO though. :beer:
I understand your point, but when you're comparing price, stop to think why there's a difference. 03's still have the value they have mostly because they still have low miles. So when comparing price, atleast compare them miles to miles. You can find 100k+ mile 03's for under $19k. There are also 93 cobras selling for $28k, so when comparing price, it ALL depends on miles.
When these 93's were 4 years old, modding them wasn't a big deal, just like now with the 03's. Years from now, it would be a bad financial decision to mod either one with 13k miles on them.
As far as initial investment, they're completely different cars, I wouldn't expect price to be near the same. '03's are more, but you're getting a lot of car for that added amount. I don't care what you do to a fox, these newer cars are far superior. I've had some REALLY nice fox's, but they don't even compare to my '03, not even close. Sure, you can go fast for cheap with a fox, but they're nowhere near as tight/refined as the newer ones.
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I agree. I recently rode in a 04 cobra and the thing felt so much better than a fox. The cobra just had intake, pullies, exhaust but boy did it scream. I think thats probably the best DD muscle car Ive ever been in.
Of course it's going to scream. With intake/pulley/exhaust it likely puts down well over 400hp... a Fox with the same mods is lucky to hit 250. That doesn't make an '04 inherently better than a Fox, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Get in a Fox that's making 450hp and you've got a valid comparison- I've been in dozens of daily driven Fox's making that kind of power, and they did it for a lot less than the cost of the '04... not to mention that they'd blow it's doors in. It only feels better because it's ten years newer, and in ten years it will be just as loose and tired as our '93s are today. Granted, '04 is probably the last model year that will be true of, as the s197 has made a huge leap in build quality, fit and finish- but nobody was talking about them.
As far as the 05"- you can have them. Personally I would take a Termi over a GT00. Hell I would take a wrapper 93 Cobra over a GT500, but that is just my taste.
The older foxes do have their rattles and creaks, but that is with any car that has had reasonable power for any amount of time. My vert shakes bad on bumpy country roads, but on any decent pavemnet it is fine.:rockon:
The older foxes do have their rattles and creaks, but that is with any car that has had reasonable power for any amount of time. My vert shakes bad on bumpy country roads, but on any decent pavemnet it is fine.:rockon:
Cars are not investments. I probably wouldn't mod a 93 with 13k on it, but I wouldn't keep it around thinking I can make a buck on it in a few years either. However, I would mod the shit out of a 03 no matter what the miles. My 93 is what a 93 should be in my eyes. I can get in it and drive it anywhere. Everything works and it can rip into the 10s without a problem. As for it not being tight, I don't know what your talking about. Mine rides a little stiffer than a 03, but thats it. Its got 67k on it now and the chassis makes no extra noise what so ever. This year if I have the time and some extra money I would like to redo somethings on my car and go for the low 10s/ high 9s! :burnout:
Ok to get back on topic.
For a 93 Cobra to compete with an 03 Cobra all that is needed is to level the playing field. Put 9 psi of any kind of boost to a 93 and the proper fuel and exhaust and it will hang right with an 03.
For a 93 Cobra to compete with an 03 Cobra all that is needed is to level the playing field. Put 9 psi of any kind of boost to a 93 and the proper fuel and exhaust and it will hang right with an 03.
I wish this video wasn't so hood, ya dig?
LOL, oh yeah, I understand. I didn't make it. It was the bitter Terminator driver who made the video. I'm personally surprised it ever made it online after how bad he got destroyed. :rockon:
When I said the newer cars are much better, I wasn't refering to just horsepower. I was refering to overall build quality/ride/handling. And, that is also why I suggested to compare miles for miles. Age has very little effect on how loose a car is, or how good/bad it handles. It's the miles. Compare a 13k mile 93 to a 13k mile 03, and you have a fair comparison, and will also be able to feel the difference in body stiffness/quality/handling. The 03 is simply better stock for stock. Anyone who's driven a stock '93 cobra shouldn't deny they handle like crap. Small sway bars, soft springs/shocks/struts. Lots of body roll and flex. They ride nice, but so does a Taurus. I'm not trying to downplay the 93, it's the best fox Ford ever built, but with each new model, improvement comes, and price goes up. In cars, you get what you pay for.
My point was, yes, the 03 is more money, but you're getting a much better overall car for the money, regardless of hp. Whether it's a better value or not, that's up the the buyer. Personally, I prefer both.
Also consider the money it takes to make a fox beat an 03/04 reliably. Put that same amount into an '03 and see where it takes you. Dollar for dollar on modifications, the '03 will make more power, but the 93 will be faster because of it's weight advantage, but what about the rest of the powertrain? There is value in the strength of the parts used in the 03/04's, which the '93 doesn't have.
And FWIW, IMO, a low mile stock 93 cobra is, and will be, an investment. We've already seen the prices on the wrapper cars go way up. It's just the beginning. The others are soon to follow. 03/04's currently are depreciating, and in no way an investment, but they're still new, and their time will come.
Don't be surprised to see $100k wrapper 93's within the next 5 years, and I'm not refering to asking prices, I'm talking about selling prices.
As for the topic, what it takes to beat an 03/04 depends on which 03/04 you're targeting. If you're trying to beat a stock one, it won't take much. As mentioned, 9 lbs of boost from just about anything will get it done. Beyond that, you'll have to start upgrading the rest of the powertrain, and go into the motor a little (ARP's, cam, etc) to keep it reliable.
LOL... that was pretty funny right there. Can anybody say "Joo jus ga served dawg!"
you do know these cars sit on the same chassis, right?? A 03 stock may handle a little better than a 93, but not much if any at all. A fox is a lighter car, so once you upgrade the factory suspension parts kiss your 03 good bye. Raw horsepower, again stock for stock an 03s got it. Mine put down 462rwhp on 6psi. i haven't seen any 03s match that on the same boost unless its turbo. Im probably opening a bag of warms here, but this in my opinion and everyone is untitled to their own.
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I'm quite aware they're the same chassis, but if you've had a look under both of them you'd know the newer ones are greatly improved over the fox cars. It's the same chassis, yes, but it's the improvements to the chassis and suspension that makes the difference.
Ask any road racer that's raced a 93 R, and a 95 R or 00 R. The 93's didn't last long as the 94-up cars simply walked away on the road courses.
And a modded fox can hardly handle as well as a stock 03 cobra. It's not even close. I've owned over 22 mustangs, and I know this as a fact from experience, not just opinion. Again, I'm not trying to downplay the fox's, I think they're great cars for the money, but they simply don't handle like the newer ones. As far as your hp, that's impressive power for 6 psi. It took my turbo 93 cobra 10 lbs to make that kind of power.
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im sure if you put IRS, the K braces, and a cage in a fox it could handle just as good if not better than any newer stang.
never mind im wrong. i was just talking to a friend that builds drag cars and road race cars. He said he probably wouldnt use either chassis for road racing, but the newer ones are a little better than the fox.
I had Ported Factory cobra heads, F303 cam, 36lb inj., Extrude honed upper/lower intake, ProM MAF, B Trim Vortech 12psi, shorty headers, O/R H, 2 1/2" Catback 3.55's, and a good fuel system.
The car ran 11.7 @ 124mph on 17" DRs.
Technology has come a long way, as well as the aftermarket.
The car ran 11.7 @ 124mph on 17" DRs.
Technology has come a long way, as well as the aftermarket.
No, you were right. I don't know where you're friend is coming from, but there are a ton of Camaro, Firebird and even Corvette drivers in American Iron who are downright pissed with the pesky Griggs and MM equipped Mustangs that are kicking their asses. Furthermore, do we really think MM couldn't afford an SN95 or even a Terminator for their shop car? But no, they're still racing (and winning) in the same POS LX they used over fifteen years ago (with a full interior and almost 200K on the clock) to set the second fastest time Motor Trend ever recorded, and that was before they dreamed up the torque arm. Same could be said for the Griggs Fox.
The Fairmont Mustangs have the most inherently bad suspension design from Ford the pencil sharpeners could think up, but it's all insanely easy to not only fix, but make more than proficient. There are plenty of Fox's in SCCA running down the best the Germany has to offer for a fraction of the investment, pulling over 1G on the pad with ease. Exactly what road coarse vehicle is he building to do that so much better?
That my friend was an awesome post!
Thank you Ben. I actually cut about 2/3 of it out before posting it, but you get the point.
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