That sucks to see... Hopefully you can find out the cause and can get a quick solution!
Whipple's NEW 4.5L 275AX 07-2014 GT500 Supercharger
- Thread starter John@Lethal
- Start date
Something tells me the mass of that 4.5 is the culprit. The crank snouts on these engines are not very beefy. Anyone else running a 4.5 without problems?
That keyway drives the timing chains. The moment that crank broke the car would have died because the cams would have stopped turning. I wonder if it twisted a bit at first causing the timing to be off, which would cause it to run poorly like you describe. Then it finally snapped off and it certainly wouldn't run after that. Luckily the oil pump drive is further back.
I would still thoroughly inspect everything else to make sure there wasn't a contributing factor, and no other secondary damage (like piston to valve contact).
I would still thoroughly inspect everything else to make sure there wasn't a contributing factor, and no other secondary damage (like piston to valve contact).
Update I cracked my f*^king crank
Curious to see what you find on tear down and closer inspection.
Well f@ck, there goes that idea.
Sorry to see, let us know what you find.
-J
Sorry to see, let us know what you find.
-J
Don't let that sway you. The OP called me and explained to me that before this happened, he installed a used balancer that ended up being defective, so he put the stock one back on. A defective balancer can definitely eff up a crank, as well as installation procedure if not done properly. Not saying it wasn't installed right in the OP's case, but he definitely told me the balancer was bad that he had installed.
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If I'm not mistaken the crank snout on the 5.8 is no bigger then the snout on the 4.6. People don't think much that the inertia loads imposed on the crank are in both directions :uh oh: Next time you take your car out for a spin watch the movement of the tach needle especially when sawing thru the gear box. Now imagine the blower pulley trying to follow that needle rpm-to-rpm never mind the load it puts on the crank at full boost. That's pretty nasty on the crank snout :nonono:
Just looking at the size of the 4.5 I think this one is a bridge too far for a mod motor. The poor crank is asked not only to turn that behemoth but it must push the car with the fat bloke behind the wheel to Ludacris speeds starts to boarder on "mechanical cruelty". A 2.9 or a 3.4 should be easier on the engine.
Just looking at the size of the 4.5 I think this one is a bridge too far for a mod motor. The poor crank is asked not only to turn that behemoth but it must push the car with the fat bloke behind the wheel to Ludacris speeds starts to boarder on "mechanical cruelty". A 2.9 or a 3.4 should be easier on the engine.
Thanks for chiming in Derek is right I has installed a previous pulley which blew 2 oil pumps
It may be possible that my snout was already bent
Because the 2nd pump didn't even last a month
So I'm hoping that's the case
So Derek u think I will be fine with a cobra jet crank
?
It may be possible that my snout was already bent
Because the 2nd pump didn't even last a month
So I'm hoping that's the case
So Derek u think I will be fine with a cobra jet crank
?
FYI, the Cobra Jet cranks are just production GT500 cranks. They're the same. They're very strong though, so don't let this one failure lead anyone to believe this was caused by anything other than a fluke, or previous damage like mentioned. Keep in mind, he was barely spinning this blower. Even with its mass, it likely had less load than my over-spun 2.9. On purely a strength basis, the belt should fail long before the crank does. Or even the 4 small screws holding the blower pulley on. Not the forged steel crank snout. However, vibrations from a bad pulley can and will destroy anything. Forged steel doesn't like to flex. Based on the new info mentioned above, I'd say we've found the culprit.
Anyway, my opinion is that the Whipple was not the cause of this.
Anyway, my opinion is that the Whipple was not the cause of this.
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Crank Support Question?
Crank Support Question?
To take most of the bending moment cyclic stress out of the belt pull from the SC, the 03-04 Termi has a bearing support bracket & bearing at the front pulley. I removed the support from my car 6-7 years ago as I run a 4lb lower with 2.3 Whipple. It is fine so far.
Does the GT 500 use any type of front crank support like the old Cobra?
Crank Support Question?
To take most of the bending moment cyclic stress out of the belt pull from the SC, the 03-04 Termi has a bearing support bracket & bearing at the front pulley. I removed the support from my car 6-7 years ago as I run a 4lb lower with 2.3 Whipple. It is fine so far.
Does the GT 500 use any type of front crank support like the old Cobra?
Not on any of the GT500s I've seen (Haven't looked at the 13 and up specifically). However you'll notice on the 03/04 Cobras the first pulley on the crank has the serpentine belt for accessories and it's the outer pulley and belt that has the supercharger on it. For the GT500s Ford changed that and put the supercharger pulley first closest to the block presumably to reduce sideways loads and then removed that cage the 03/04s had.
The 13/14's are setup the same as the 07-12's as far as pulley configuration with no support setup.
Power by the hour are the ones that tested those blowers on the lethal car and from what I heard when talking to them about the results they found from testing was that there was no decrease in IAT2.
Sorry to hear that happened Tom, after spending that kind of money on the blower it would be hard for anyone to get up from that and build a new motor as I am sure the valves are all bent in those heads that repair won't be cheap. Without knowing the chain of events that led up to the failure we can only guess as to what caused the failure and can't prematurely blame the big whipple. The question is why did you blow 2 oil pumps were they stock replacements with the powered gears and if so maybe the motor was detonating and sending harmonics through the pump and the gears shattered. The other thing that is possibly being overlooked is that the stock harmonic balancer bolt is torque to yeild and can only be used once did you replace it with a new one when you changed out those 2 balancers ? if not that could be part of the equation. Again sorry for your loss but I'm sure you will build it bigger and better. On another note I had read on the GT500 forums about another guy snapping the snout off his crank and he was running a 4.0L whipple but his was a billet crank so it was pretty much as good as it gets. Maybe these big whipples take too much power to turn and they are too much strain on these mod motor snouts. Just food for thought.
I plan on pushing my 4.0L pretty hard, so we'll see how it holds up.
Hey yall
What's going on I habe a theory
One day before any failures my car was saying misfire cylinder number 5
Removed code from tune
3 days later I blow my first oil pump I later find out my iw balancer has scuff marks on the left side of engine
Happens to be exactly where cylinder number 5 is
Bad pulley vibrating hitting left side of engine causing a false misfire
Replace pump stock replacement last 1 month and was running great with 16 psi with upper being a 2.4
Get greedy put lower back on and bam blow oil pump again I replace with oil pump with TSS billet oil pump
With 2.4 upper and stock lower
Get greedy order 4.5 Whipple gets here with 5.0 pulley
Only 14 psi car slower then before get pissed
Call Whipple and they send me 4.5 pulley free of charge
Make a datalog car runs real close to Tvs down low or equal and pulls like a freight train up top I love it I wanna order bigger injectors and everything to get more power down low
Finally I'm happy or so I thought
2 hours later engine blows
And dam now I gotta start again
Gunna pull engine out tomorrow
Ps
What I think caused it defective lower pulley blew first pump
Bent crank so high rpm it wobbles
2nd pump goes in and last less time because crank is bank already
Blows
3rd pump TSS billet
All I gotta say about this TSS pump is it is worth the money because even with the crank bending and cracking off the oil pump has still not failed and still provides me with oil pressure as of now
My plans for this not to happen again
Buy cobra jet crank
Get it Cryogentically frozen
Then get it double keyed
Then get a stock diameter ati balancer and get it double keyed Aswell
And forged internals and ford gt cams
And that's it put some id1300 injectors as up the boost and see how far torco and pump gas can take my car without knocking at all
Sorry if this is long and doesn't make sense to u made sense to me when I wrote it.
What's going on I habe a theory
One day before any failures my car was saying misfire cylinder number 5
Removed code from tune
3 days later I blow my first oil pump I later find out my iw balancer has scuff marks on the left side of engine
Happens to be exactly where cylinder number 5 is
Bad pulley vibrating hitting left side of engine causing a false misfire
Replace pump stock replacement last 1 month and was running great with 16 psi with upper being a 2.4
Get greedy put lower back on and bam blow oil pump again I replace with oil pump with TSS billet oil pump
With 2.4 upper and stock lower
Get greedy order 4.5 Whipple gets here with 5.0 pulley
Only 14 psi car slower then before get pissed
Call Whipple and they send me 4.5 pulley free of charge
Make a datalog car runs real close to Tvs down low or equal and pulls like a freight train up top I love it I wanna order bigger injectors and everything to get more power down low
Finally I'm happy or so I thought
2 hours later engine blows
And dam now I gotta start again
Gunna pull engine out tomorrow
Ps
What I think caused it defective lower pulley blew first pump
Bent crank so high rpm it wobbles
2nd pump goes in and last less time because crank is bank already
Blows
3rd pump TSS billet
All I gotta say about this TSS pump is it is worth the money because even with the crank bending and cracking off the oil pump has still not failed and still provides me with oil pressure as of now
My plans for this not to happen again
Buy cobra jet crank
Get it Cryogentically frozen
Then get it double keyed
Then get a stock diameter ati balancer and get it double keyed Aswell
And forged internals and ford gt cams
And that's it put some id1300 injectors as up the boost and see how far torco and pump gas can take my car without knocking at all
Sorry if this is long and doesn't make sense to u made sense to me when I wrote it.
You want to get the second keyway machined into the crankshaft before you do the Cryogenics process. All machine work or polishing should be done before you Cryo anything. To do any type of machine work to a piece after it has been through a cryogenics process is a waste of the money you spent to do the cryogenics in the first place.
If the crank and or balancer were bent or wobbling you should have had some kind of vibration or some kind of wear or fraying on your belts due to mis alignment. If you are going to replace the cams I would just get comp or bullet cams to grind you some custom cams. I know the cobrajet crank is cheap but there are better options out there like winberg cranks for example.
It sounds like the engines past history played a big role here. The snout may have been compromised during the first 2 failures and the 4.5 just pushed it over the edge. The 4.5 will stress the snout more regardless and crank snout failures are not uncommon with this engine. The topic of adding a second key way came-up on another thread where Malcolm raised the issue of the possibility of weakening the snout by adding a second key way. If the snout was more substantial I don't think this would be an issue but the mod motor crank snout is rather "thin" to be supporting a blower. The undercut on the snout don't help either :nonono: Besides; the key way on this crank appears intact. The snout itself is what gave-up the ghost.
Can u link me to a better crank for the money please
I wasn't aware there are other better options
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