Why not prep the car for E85?

[johnny-longtors]

Serious question.
My limited understanding of what is required for E85 support is simply upgrading the "fuel transport" bits to materials suited to handling the added alcohols (and some tune bits).

Has anyone an understanding of why Ford didn't make this car E85 compatible? This just seems like it would have been a really logical thing to do. I am sure there's a logical explanation but I simply don't know enough about E85 support.
(heading to google now - I don't even know if the base GT can run E85 "stock")

 

[DSG2003SVT]

No Mustangs are factory Flex Fuel capable. I know that the 11-14 GT already has an alcohol safe fuel system, and the only thing required to run E85 is a custom tune and larger injectors to handle the volume. I ran LU47 Ford injectors on my 2013.

The main reason, I'm sure, that Ford doesn't build the Mustang with stock Flex Fuel tuning is that it saves them some money. The demand for E85 capable sports cars just isn't there. I'm sure that's mainly because of lack of availability, because that's the only real disadvantage unless someone is worried about the convenience of range on a single tank.

E85 doesn't detonate, it runs cooler, it's nearly free of harmful emissions (except for the 15% gasoline, it's emissions are biodegradable), and it completely stops any long term carbon buildup in your engine. The lack of availability nationwide is the main hang up business wise. When comparing the cost of operation to 87 octane, it's usually more expensive, but compared to 93 octane, it's usually equal or less. Unfortunately, it's not going to gain popularity nationwide unless the cost savings are there over 87 octane too.

The Obama administration is pushing to install more ethanol blender pumps across the country in an attempt to reduce carbon emissions. I know they recently put $100 million toward increasing the volume of said pumps. Maybe with that and the advances in waste based and cellulose ethanol production, we will see it start decreasing in price and catch on more.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

Here's a piston from a GTO LS2 with 30,000 miles of 93 octane use.



Here it is again 3,000 miles after switching to E85.

 

[Lemers]

View attachment 48306

Here's a piston from a GTO LS2 with 30,000 miles of 93 octane use.

View attachment 48307

Here it is again 3,000 miles after switching to E85.

How many kids need to go in starving while we drive around burning up all the corn?

 

[SID297]

Ford likely doesn't want to spend the money on a second round of emissions testing on a low volume vehicle.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

How many kids need to go in starving while we drive around burning up all the corn?

Haha! I think the cellulose and waste based production should cover you on that.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

E85 conversion would be a great change to a gt350r, assuming it's readily available in your area, or you flex build it so getting e85 isn't so tough.

I've built my fuel system with the potential to convert pretty easily (id2000's, duals as a sequential, etc) because e85 is 30+ miles away from my house with heavy traffic most hours for those drives.

On a side note, natural gas based oils like penzoil ultra really keep a clean engine as well. My daily driver is a turbo 4 ecotech and the oil looks very clean even at 3-5,000 miles of aggressive driving (sometimes 17mpg for a whole tank 0.o)

I wonder how clean an e85/natural gas based oil would be... Virtually spotless?

 

[johnny-longtors]

After some reading I see there also seems to be an issue with the quality of the E85 in some areas. And decent, high-flow injectors aren't a bargain. I also see mixed opinions on mileage (albeit not a huge concern for me - if I drive 1000 miles in year that's a lot). Lund's got some crazy beast that pulls 17mpg on either so not really sure if it's a true issue.

It's available at a new Thorton's that a mile from my house. Was debating on converting my GT - could be an easy change that would make 700HP fairly easy to get to (currently at 602). NOT sure where it's at price-wise now - but when 93 octane was $3.50/gallon it was looking pretty enticing.

Ford likely doesn't want to spend the money on a second round of emissions testing on a low volume vehicle.

I guess I would get that for _just_ the GT350, but am again surprised it's not in the Mustang/GT (particularly the EcoBoost) as Ford seems to have everything from entry-level Focuses to high-end Lincoln SUVs tagged for FlexFuel.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

The "quality issue" wording is a little misleading. What people usually mean is that you can get anywhere from E70-E95 at an E85 pump. This isn't an issue on any 2011+ Mustangs because they all have OEM wide band O2 sensors and full time closed loop tuning. All you have to do is tune for E85 at a true 85% content one time. After the tune is finished, the ECU can adjust your fueling automatically for E70-E100. Don't let people scare you away from switching. There's probably 100whp+ available by switching your supercharged car to E85.

 

[H-TownMachI]

How many kids need to go in starving while we drive around burning up all the corn?

Have you ever driven through Nebraska or Iowa?

 

[SID297]

After some reading I see there also seems to be an issue with the quality of the E85 in some areas. And decent, high-flow injectors aren't a bargain. I also see mixed opinions on mileage (albeit not a huge concern for me - if I drive 1000 miles in year that's a lot). Lund's got some crazy beast that pulls 17mpg on either so not really sure if it's a true issue.

It's available at a new Thorton's that a mile from my house. Was debating on converting my GT - could be an easy change that would make 700HP fairly easy to get to (currently at 602). NOT sure where it's at price-wise now - but when 93 octane was $3.50/gallon it was looking pretty enticing.

I guess I would get that for _just_ the GT350, but am again surprised it's not in the Mustang/GT (particularly the EcoBoost) as Ford seems to have everything from entry-level Focuses to high-end Lincoln SUVs tagged for FlexFuel.

EcoBoost doesn't have enough headroom in the fuel system.

 

[Lemers]

Have you ever driven through Nebraska or Iowa?

I have and yet with all the corn being grown there; there still tends to be a lot of kids starving arround the world. #feedkidsbeforebiofuel

 

[03VertGT]

I have and yet with all the corn being grown there; there still tends to be a lot of kids starving arround the world. #feedkidsbeforebiofuel

They aren't starving because the food isn't available, they are starving because they can't afford it.

 

[Lemers]

They aren't starving because the food isn't available, they are starving because they can't afford it.

well corn and other "food" products being used as fuel only drives the cost up so they can't afford it.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

I'm not going to get into this huge ethical debate yet again, but I'll just make a few quick points, and then let it be.

Unless you only eat grass fed beef, grain fed chicken, and wild caught fish, you really can't complain about improper use of corn. I'm vegan, so consider that my Al Gore carbon credit for the 15 gallons per month of E70 I used to burn.

Corn feeding makes our meat products unhealthy to eat, and corn isn't even very healthy for anyone to eat. Its only notable healthy effect is fiber because you can't digest the kernel skins. You could argue that corn is more suitable for fuel than food. E10 decreases carbon emissions by 7% over ethanol free gasoline. E85 reduces them by 60%. You can argue the use of ethanol fuel 800 different directions, and I'm not sure that any of them would be correct outside of individual opinions.

All that said, I strongly support alternative ethanol production through waste and algae. I think it pretty much eliminates the controversy other than oil company propaganda. However, that's not going to make me sweat filling my Mustangs with corn liquor in the meantime.

 

[johnny-longtors]

This thread is taking AN ODD TURN

 

[DSG2003SVT]

Cliff notes:

Switch to E85, don't look back. Your car will love you for it.

 

[03VertGT]

I'm not going to get into this huge ethical debate yet again, but I'll just make a few quick points, and then let it be.

Unless you only eat grass fed beef, grain fed chicken, and wild caught fish, you really can't complain about improper use of corn. I'm vegan, so consider that my Al Gore carbon credit for the 15 gallons per month of E70 I used to burn.

Corn feeding makes our meat products unhealthy to eat, and corn isn't even very healthy for anyone to eat. Its only notable healthy effect is fiber because you can't digest the kernel skins. You could argue that corn is more suitable for fuel than food. E10 decreases carbon emissions by 7% over ethanol free gasoline. E85 reduces them by 60%. You can argue the use of ethanol fuel 800 different directions, and I'm not sure that any of them would be correct outside of individual opinions.

All that said, I strongly support alternative ethanol production through waste and algae. I think it pretty much eliminates the controversy other than oil company propaganda. However, that's not going to make me sweat filling my Mustangs with corn liquor in the meantime.

Not a vegan but I agree. Would love if E85+ was more common. So much power to be unlocked

 

[Voltwings]

One thing to consider is its track capabilities. In my 2013 5.0, making just a tick over 400 whp, i was going through 1/4 tank per 20-25 minute session at the track on 93-98. Go to 100% e85 and you're looking at another ~40% fuel demand, and you'd be going through over half a tank of gas per session between the E85 needs and the higher power demands of that motor.

E85 is awesome at the track, but it takes a lot of consideration and planning. We actually run our cars on 50/50 to get the cooling and octane, but still save some fuel headroom and not have to cart like 50 gallons of E85 to the track. E85 has its place, but its not at the commercial level.

 

[needspeed]

I live in Iowa where you would think E85 is available everywhere, but even here you have to go look for it. I have 3 of 4 vehicles that run on E85, but it is not at that many gas stations........Steve