Will Ford drop the ball?

[Jpjr]

I don't think Ford dropped the ball. I think the '05 has been a big success, and the Shelby will be as well. I think this car is literally a love/hate design. If you don't like retro (like me) you won't care if its got 700hp. Ford took the Mustang in a different direction, but they have done a good job with the car. It will sell very well, and is a more profitable segment for them.

 

[Purvis]

Ford gives us the most powerful mustang of all time, and people think they dropped the ball?

And honestly, to the people who want IRS...
Go drive a Vette. ITs got an IRS that is night and day better than the SN95 Cobra's! Why bother with the Mustang IRS?.. Handling was never the Mustang's strong suit. If you want handling, get a Vette!

 

[meaty mac]

I like the retro look and think the GT500 is going to be a great Mustang, but it's not the Cobra I was expecting or wanted. I think Ford should have offered the GT500, but not as or in place of the SVT Cobra. I'm still waiting for a more balanced performer. I know the '03 was just as nose heavy, but I bought it because I've always wanted a supercharged Mustang. I had expected to trade it in on the next gen Cobra anyway and now that I've had an IRS I don't want to go back to an SRA. I like the superior ride and handling the IRS provided in the Cobra over the SRA in the GT, and expected the IRS that the new platform was designed with to be in the next gen Cobra. I'd rather have 400 horses out of a supercharged aluminum 4.6, an IRS and better weight balance over the iron 5.4, SRA and more power. If the GT500 is going to be the only Mustang offering from SVT over the next few years I'll either get a Roush Stage 3 or buy a GT and build my own Performance Mustang. I'll also be able to get my IRS since MM has stepped up and filled the void that Ford left when they dropped the IRS.

getting a roush over the gt500 would be a bad choice,imo. you would still have a live axle, and a regular bottom end 4.6...and it would still be more expensive.

 

[WraithCobra]

getting a roush over the gt500 would be a bad choice,imo. you would still have a live axle, and a regular bottom end 4.6...and it would still be more expensive.

And it will best the GT500 in all performance categories except in a straight line.
I don't care about the fastest or most powerful, I want well balanced performance and will pay for it. If I have to have an SRA, Roush will do a better job with it than the bean counters at Ford ever could. The aluminum block and internals in the GT will easily handle 425+ horsepower, so I'm not worried about that either. I could have kept my '03 and Whippled it if I wanted a 600 hp monster.
I was originally looking at a Roush Stage 3 before I decided to buy the Cobra for $12K less. With the GT500 now at $40K, the price difference will not be as much. The Roush will not only be more rare, it will also hold it's value longer than the GT500 even with the $helby badge.
I've had at least one Mustang in my driveway for over 23 years until I sold the Cobra, so I definitely do NOT want a fugly 2 seat Vette.

 

[Fourcam330]

And it will best the GT500 in all performance categories except in a straight line.
I don't care about the fastest or most powerful, I want well balanced performance and will pay for it. If I have to have an SRA, Roush will do a better job with it than the bean counters at Ford ever could. The aluminum block and internals in the GT will easily handle 425+ horsepower, so I'm not worried about that either. I could have kept my '03 and Whippled it if I wanted a 600 hp monster.
I was originally looking at a Roush Stage 3 before I decided to buy the Cobra for $12K less. With the GT500 now at $40K, the price difference will not be as much. The Roush will not only be more rare, it will also hold it's value longer than the GT500 even with the $helby badge.
I've had at least one Mustang in my driveway for over 23 years until I sold the Cobra, so I definitely do NOT want a fugly 2 seat Vette.

On the whole Roush Mustangs have always been a joke performance per $ wise. I also wouldn't say that the shitty cast internals in the new 3V 4.6s are up to the task of easily handling 425+HP. The top of the piston is only .008" thick near the exhaust valve, the hottest spot.

 

[meaty mac]

The top of the piston is only .008" thick near the exhaust valve, the hottest spot.

hey fourcam, how does that compare to pistons on the new edge stangs,namely my bullitt? are they the same? i take it that's the reason why the ring lands are so vulnerable to pre ignition.

 

[WraithCobra]

On the whole Roush Mustangs have always been a joke performance per $ wise. I also wouldn't say that the shitty cast internals in the new 3V 4.6s are up to the task of easily handling 425+HP. The top of the piston is only .008" thick near the exhaust valve, the hottest spot.

I usually have you ignored but I HAD to see your reply.

I looked at an '03 Stage 3 Premium, if I remember correctly the sticker was near $52K marked down to $48.5K, I paid sticker for my Cobra $36.5. The '01 Stage 3 with only 360 hp could run the 1/4 with similar numbers to the '03 Cobra due to the SRA and weight difference. The '03 Stage 3 was rated at 380 hp and both hp and torque peaked at a lower RPM. The Roush had better weight balance and handled better than the Cobra. I'll admit the SRA set up in the Roush handled better than the "Band-Aid" IRS in the Cobra, so I KNOW it will be better in the next gen Mustang over the GT500 factory set-up. The real IRS for the next gen Mustang that Ford left on the drawing board would have been a much better set-up than either the previous IRS or the SRA in the GT500.

Like I said, the Roush will be a better overall performance car than the GT500 (except in a straight line) and is expected to have 430hp/385lbft of torque. That's a Ford warranted 425+ horsepower out of the supercharged aluminum 3v 4.6 GT motor, so yes it will easily handle that kind of power.
I want balanced performance over big straight line hp, so I don't think the Stage 3 is "a joke performance per $ wise" for a Mustang. It might cost more, but if I just wanted a fast cheap Mustang there are plenty of other options.

 

[Force4.6]

I have yet to see the production car but I did see the prototype up in PA. The problem was that they had it beside all three Cobra Rs. It made the car look huge, I do like the GT500 but it doesn't make me want to rush out and buy one. But after I bought my 04 Cobra I was more than glad to take part in all the surveys and messages I got about my thoughts on my car and what I would like to see improved. I want the GT500 to be a badass car no matter what, it should be better than my car!!! Part of the reason I like the Cobras is because they are suppose to be Ford's special forces against the other car companies best. The GT500 should continue the reputation 03/04s built up. I consider the GT500 an evolution of the Terminator, keep the tradition going GT500 owners and do us Cobra owners proud. :rockon:

 

[Fourcam330]

I usually have you ignored but I HAD to see your reply.

:banana:

I looked at an '03 Stage 3 Premium, if I remember correctly the sticker was near $52K marked down to $48.5K, I paid sticker for my Cobra $36.5. The '01 Stage 3 with only 360 hp could run the 1/4 with similar numbers to the '03 Cobra due to the SRA and weight difference. The '03 Stage 3 was rated at 380 hp and both hp and torque peaked at a lower RPM.

ROFLMAO. $52K for a blown 2V and a name. :lol1: Kind of ironic that in 2006 at least we get forged internals in a GT head 5.4 for much less $. The Roush had nowhere near the potential of the 4V, yet commanded a huge premium that only a NASCAR loving poser would pay for. As for having more low rpm power, big deal, gear around it. :loser: If you want enough power to rip your head off up top, a 281 CI motor is not going to be a stump puller.
I think you're forgetting about the old Roush stage I and II (dress up, suspension, wheels, and an air filter) Cobras that used to command over $45K back in the late 90s. The $55K stage III Cobra had an S-trim with a whopping 5psi on stock internals.

The Roush had better weight balance and handled better than the Cobra. I'll admit the SRA set up in the Roush handled better than the "Band-Aid" IRS in the Cobra, so I KNOW it will be better in the next gen Mustang over the GT500 factory set-up. The real IRS for the next gen Mustang that Ford left on the drawing board would have been a much better set-up than either the previous IRS or the SRA in the GT500.

Your ass still sore over that? Get over it or buy a vette. If you wanted a Mustang that really handled moneybags, you would have gone Griggs or MM anyway.

Like I said, the Roush will be a better overall performance car than the GT500 (except in a straight line) and is expected to have 430hp/385lbft of torque. That's a Ford warranted 425+ horsepower out of the supercharged aluminum 3v 4.6 GT motor, so yes it will easily handle that kind of power.
I want balanced performance over big straight line hp, so I don't think the Stage 3 is "a joke performance per $ wise" for a Mustang. It might cost more, but if I just wanted a fast cheap Mustang there are plenty of other options.

LOL toss me some of your Modular omniscience. :bored: The Roush is nothing more than an overpriced Mustang GT complete with junk internals, a literal ticking time bomb waiting to happen--especially when faced with upping the boost or getting your ass waxed by a turbo Neon due to a lack of HP. Speaking of, have you ever actually seen an 05/06 3V 4.6 piston? :shrug:
Only a true dipshit, or someone so boldly blinded by their hate for the next Cobra's lack of an IRS would spend $50K on such a car when you could easily get what you want and more for less $ by going with another brand. oke:

 

[chuckstang]

I like the retro look and think the GT500 is going to be a great Mustang, but it's not the Cobra I was expecting or wanted. I think Ford should have offered the GT500, but not as or in place of the SVT Cobra. I'm still waiting for a more balanced performer. I know the '03 was just as nose heavy, but I bought it because I've always wanted a supercharged Mustang. I had expected to trade it in on the next gen Cobra anyway and now that I've had an IRS I don't want to go back to an SRA. I like the superior ride and handling the IRS provided in the Cobra over the SRA in the GT, and expected the IRS that the new platform was designed with to be in the next gen Cobra. I'd rather have 400 horses out of a supercharged aluminum 4.6, an IRS and better weight balance over the iron 5.4, SRA and more power. If the GT500 is going to be the only Mustang offering from SVT over the next few years I'll either get a Roush Stage 3 or buy a GT and build my own Performance Mustang. I'll also be able to get my IRS since MM has stepped up and filled the void that Ford left when they dropped the IRS.

lol no offense but the 03/04 cobra does not have an aluminum block like you seem to think oke:

 

[Fourcam330]

hey fourcam, how does that compare to pistons on the new edge stangs,namely my bullitt? are they the same? i take it that's the reason why the ring lands are so vulnerable to pre ignition.

They are actually a tad worse, earlier slugs had slightly thicker lands. You're going to see a lot of blown up stock motors in the near future, especially as the twin screw blowers become more readily availalbe.

 

[SlowSVT]

I usually have you ignored but I HAD to see your reply.

I looked at an '03 Stage 3 Premium, if I remember correctly the sticker was near $52K marked down to $48.5K, I paid sticker for my Cobra $36.5. The '01 Stage 3 with only 360 hp could run the 1/4 with similar numbers to the '03 Cobra due to the SRA and weight difference. The '03 Stage 3 was rated at 380 hp and both hp and torque peaked at a lower RPM. The Roush had better weight balance and handled better than the Cobra. I'll admit the SRA set up in the Roush handled better than the "Band-Aid" IRS in the Cobra, so I KNOW it will be better in the next gen Mustang over the GT500 factory set-up. The real IRS for the next gen Mustang that Ford left on the drawing board would have been a much better set-up than either the previous IRS or the SRA in the GT500.

Like I said, the Roush will be a better overall performance car than the GT500 (except in a straight line) and is expected to have 430hp/385lbft of torque. That's a Ford warranted 425+ horsepower out of the supercharged aluminum 3v 4.6 GT motor, so yes it will easily handle that kind of power.
I want balanced performance over big straight line hp, so I don't think the Stage 3 is "a joke performance per $ wise" for a Mustang. It might cost more, but if I just wanted a fast cheap Mustang there are plenty of other options.

Band-aid IRS? The “real” IRS for the next generation Mustang?

WraithCobra

Why don’t you engage your brain for 5 minutes if you can sustain the effort and consider the logistics of an IRS on the new Mustang.

Any IRS “adapted” to the SN197 platform will be handled in the same manner as the Cobra. Both cars were never designed with an IRS in mind plus the volume won’t justify modifying the chassis to integrate it into the structure. Ford will need to employ a sub-frame just like on the Cobra. It will be bolt-on affair to keep the cost in line and to facilitate building the many varieties of the same cars on the assembly line. It is also likely to push the weight of the car to 4000-4100 lbs. which is one thing it already has an abundance of.

One problem with the IRS equipped Cobra are the big soft rubber bushings used at the pivot points. They don’t do a very good job of locating the axle but will minimize the noise and harshness transmitted to the chassis to provide a plush ride that the average consumer will demand. There is also a fair amount of bump steer designed into the system which will provide predictable handling characteristics that your average Jane can cope with. I am unaware of any plans by Ford to employ an IRS in the new Mustang but if they did that same philosophy will be applied. Count on it.

If you are unimpressed with the handling qualities afforded by the IRS on your Cobra then consider installing a set of delrin bushing and a bump steer kit. Guys who have done so describe the improvement as “dramatic”. But there will be a down side to this modification. The interior noise will increase and more shock loads will be transmitted to the chassis increasing ride harshness. Hard bushings are something Ford wisely left off the car to begin with. They are way smarter then you realize.

Roush Mustang :xpl:

To me they are nothing more then a flashy customized Mustang sold to rich kids who want to make a statement and would rather pay someone else to get their hands dirty. A typical Roush or Saleen is not what I call an “optimally” engineered car. Anyone with a shopping cart full of aftermarket parts could easily replicate and surpass the performance level of either of those vehicles. Ford refused to supply both companies with the Cobra or the Mach 1. That forced them to settle for the standard issue Mustang GT to apply their catalog “bolt-on” parts to which will never attain the level of performance potential that was designed into the Cobra and the upcoming GT500. If either company gets their hands on the GT500 I will scream! They will do nothing but cheapen the car buy pocking useless orfaces in every panel they can bolt onto the chassis and emblazon it with obnoxious graphics. I sure it does wonders for Jack Roush and Steve Saleen ego seeing a car plastered with their name on in big letters driving down Main St.(add Carrol Shelby’s to name to that list as well).

Next time consider the issues before you stick your head in a draft.

 

[SlowSVT]

The top of the piston is only .008" thick near the exhaust valve, the hottest spot.

Fourcam

Can you elaborate? .008" is about the thickness of four sheets of paper. With the cylinder pressures involved I would imagine that part of the piston would collapse very quickly. That can't be right. It just can't :shrug:

 

[Fourcam330]

Fourcam

Can you elaborate? .008" is about the thickness of four sheets of paper. With the cylinder pressures involved I would imagine that part of the piston would collapse very quickly. That can't be right. It just can't :shrug:

Doh, sorry .080"

 

[SlowSVT]

 

[broeli]

. Ford refused to supply both companies with the Cobra or the Mach 1. That forced them to settle for the standard issue Mustang GT to apply their catalog “bolt-on” parts to which will never attain the level of performance potential that was designed into the Cobra and the upcoming GT500

Not really true. You do know there are Saleen Cobras..don't you? In case you want to see one..here is one for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...Z6236QQitemZ4604607720QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Saleen also offers the S281E...as in extreme, with forged internals, etc. Although it is WAAAY to expensive I'd rather have it than a GT500. Then there is the S351 and the supercharged S351. Saleen makes great Mustangs eventhough they are priced a little high. I'd be in heaven if Ford made something like a Saleen S281E or S351 and offered it for $40k
You REALLY think a Cobra will outhandle some of Saleens offerings??
Roush on the other hand has never really impressed me with their Mustang packages.

 

[SlowSVT]

Some customers brought their Cobra's to Saleen to be modified. They did not get them directly from Ford.

 

[Fourcam330]

Not really true. You do know there are Saleen Cobras..don't you? In case you want to see one..here is one for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...Z6236QQitemZ4604607720QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Saleen also offers the S281E...as in extreme, with forged internals, etc. Although it is WAAAY to expensive I'd rather have it than a GT500. Then there is the S351 and the supercharged S351. Saleen makes great Mustangs eventhough they are priced a little high. I'd be in heaven if Ford made something like a Saleen S281E or S351 and offered it for $40k
You REALLY think a Cobra will outhandle some of Saleens offerings??
Roush on the other hand has never really impressed me with their Mustang packages.

Saleens fall into the same class $ per HP wise as the Roush stangs, laughable. As for suspension/handling, mention "Racecraft/Saleen" at an open track event and prepare for some serious laughter.

 

[HISSMAN]

When the 03's came out I had my 98 cobra, and I can't remember one negative thing being said about it durring the months before it's release. However the GT500 has just as much negative posts as it does positive. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the wow factor will not be as great as what we had when the 03 came out of the stable.


-Jeff

 

[broeli]

Some customers brought their Cobra's to Saleen to be modified. They did not get them directly from Ford.

:nonono:
Again. NOT TRUE. Why do you say things you don't know are fact? The Cobra Saleens are true numbered Saleens. Due to their high cost though they were done, I believe, on a "pre-purchase" basis just as the S351's were...then they were made to order. Here is a link to some production #'s: http://www.mustangheaven.com/Production Numbers/saleen.htm
I also know a dealer back in the day that ordered and had a Cobra Saleen on their lot for sale along with all the other Saleens and Mustangs.

As for suspension/handling, mention "Racecraft/Saleen" at an open track event and prepare for some serious laughter.

I've never heard anyone laugh at Saleen when I went to DE's. Yes they're overpriced though. Do you think a stock Cobra handles better?