Get a Bob's Catch can if you haven't already...

[mullens]

I've sat this discussion out several times, but here goes:

How do you know it will not cause warranty problems? You are adding a non-factory part that modifies the PCV system on an extremely complicated and expensive engine. If you have an engine related problem during the warranty period, my guess is you will be going round and round with them about wether or not this modification contributed to the failure in any way.

How could it cause a problem? Well, if for any reason the PCV system was to get plugged up, it would create a dramatic increase in crankcase pressure that would cause all kinds of problems.

Is it likely, probably not, but it can and has happened to other manufacturers oil separator designs.

BMW had a huge, well known oil separator problem:
What years of X5's are most susceptible to the dreaded oil separator failure? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Porsche warranty claim problem with oil separator:
Can oil separator cause catastrophic engine failure? - Rennlist Discussion Forums


I completely understand the oil vapor issue in play here as I have had several factory blown fords over the past 10 years, but if hassle free warranty service is important to you, I would wait and put the separator on after 3/36,000.

And please don't quote Magnuson Moss, I get it, but IMO this is not a fight you want to have if you plan to keep the car otherwise stock.


Take care,
Kevin

I agree anything can happen, but the chances of an oil separator causing failures/warranty problems on this particular engine is remote at best. How do I know this? Hundreds of GT500 owners of all years have used separators and I don't know of one failure. Even if there was some kind of blockage it would immediately cause a CEL from the sensor on the PVC before it could do any damage. With that logic ANY mod could void the warranty, i.e. hood struts bending the hood, etc.

To each his own but I'd rather not wait 3 years (or longer with and extended warranty) and have a gummed up intercooler for an occurrence that has almost no chance of happening. I've seen the shape of my last intercooler after only 15k with no separator and I was shocked.

In the past I have installed mods that could have very well caused engine damage (tunes and other power adders) but I'd say it's a pretty good be we'll be OK with this one. Like I said, to each his own.

Enjoy

 

[usmotox]

Boosted engines at rev do blow oil thus the recirculation system. Many ways to deal with it Bobs is not bad JIT has a good rep I have been building my own for the turbo imports we have for years and before that the big high compression V-8's so if you cant build one i would recomend buying one and if the one you buy dont drain the oil back to the engine then dont forget to check and adjust your oil level when you empty the can

 

[1stShelby]

Drained the Pass side catch can after around 2000 miles of spirited street driving. As you can see there is a fair amount of oil that would have been coating my supercharger/intercooler.

I found the best way to drain it is by cutting a section out of a water bottle. It allows me to hold the top of the bottle firmly as the catch can is draining into the bottom of the bottle.

2000 miles

Van's the Man!

I drain mine into the bottom half of my JLT, that works pretty good too!

 

[ObieFox]

I agree anything can happen, but the chances of an oil separator causing failures/warranty problems on this particular engine is remote at best. How do I know this? Hundreds of GT500 owners of all years have used separators and I don't know of one failure. Even if there was some kind of blockage it would immediately cause a CEL from the sensor on the PVC before it could do any damage. With that logic ANY mod could void the warranty, i.e. hood struts bending the hood, etc.

To each his own but I'd rather not wait 3 years (or longer with and extended warranty) and have a gummed up intercooler for an occurrence that has almost no chance of happening. I've seen the shape of my last intercooler after only 15k with no separator and I was shocked.

In the past I have installed mods that could have very well caused engine damage (tunes and other power adders) but I'd say it's a pretty good be we'll be OK with this one. Like I said, to each his own.

Enjoy

Comparing a hood strut modification to a crank case ventilation system modification with regards to voiding a warranty is ridiculous at best.

Yes, hundreds of GT500 owners have used separators over the years, but that leaves thousands who have not. We have all seen the pics of oil residue covered intercoolers from termi's, lightnings and GT500's but I don't recall seeing any problems caused directly from the oil residue.

I trust that Ford would have installed a catch can by now (after 10 yrs) if they were experiencing intercooler related failures due to oil residue.

As you said, to each his own.

 

[Farmer-Ted]

I trust that Ford would have installed a catch can by now (after 10 yrs) if they were experiencing intercooler related failures due to oil residue.

Not running one will not cause an intercooler related failure. Just clogging which reduces flow and heat transfer.

 

[662HP631TQ]

...drawn into the combustions chamber, burned with the rest of the hydrocarbons, and expelled out the exhaust.

Don't get me wrong, it's better to NOT recirculate this into the intake tract. Some of it does create a residue, aneffective octane rating of the fuel... but this 'shock and awe' campaign reminds me of politicians whining about draconian spending cuts that in the end still d that which enters the combustion chamber has the effect of lowering the amount to a net spending increase.

It would be interesting to see (I believe someone on here has already done a preliminary study) on how this reclaimed oil volume is affected by the type of oil one uses.

I bought one but I DEFINITELY see your point...I've often had the same questions. I just figured it'd be better to put it on.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

...drawn into the combustions chamber, burned with the rest of the hydrocarbons, and expelled out the exhaust.

Don't get me wrong, it's better to NOT recirculate this into the intake tract. Some of it does create a residue, aneffective octane rating of the fuel... but this 'shock and awe' campaign reminds me of politicians whining about draconian spending cuts that in the end still d that which enters the combustion chamber has the effect of lowering the amount to a net spending increase.

It would be interesting to see (I believe someone on here has already done a preliminary study) on how this reclaimed oil volume is affected by the type of oil one uses.

It's not shock and awe. It's more like 'look what I found'. The evidence is empirical. As you stated yourself it is better NOT to recirculate.

I've used nothing but FORD OEM Oil in my car with the OEM thermostat and I've recovered about 6 oz. of oil from the separator. 4,500 miles with heavy track duty and dyno testing.

The Lightning and 03/04 Cobra guys can attest to intercooler contamination and they've got the miles.

The separator is just a preventative maintenance piece. Like changing spark plugs and oil. It just continues to deliver.

I have another thread going about this with oil everywhere on a 2013 with 1500 miles. Easy break in too. Case for: Bob's Oil Separator

 

[ObieFox]

ummmm.....clogging which reduces flow and heat transfer IS exactly what I mean by intercooler "related" failure.

How many 10 year old '03 cobra's have you seen or heard of with a "clogged" intercooler. Me personally... zero.

Let's look at it another way. Ford has been torture testing these blown modulars on their engine dyno's for years. They run them night and day with the exhaust manifolds glowing for thousands and thousands of miles. After this torture, they tear them down for inspection. Don't you think that if the intercoolers were getting "clogged" or degraded with oil residue that they may have noticed that? They monitor every sensor they have on the dyno, so if the intercooler was loosing efficiency due to the residue, they would have logged it in the air temp data.

I have personally run 4 factory blown modulars over the past decade for a bunch of miles and I have never had any problem what so ever with oil residue blocking or degrading my intercooler.

Again, do whatever you like, but the constant gushing about this "mod" that distills oil from oil vapor is a little much for me.

Take care,
Kevin

 

[Eviltwins344]

Van, I agree with you in regards to the need for keeping oil out of the intake system. Regardless of what Ford thinks (warranty wise) I say install one. I have torn down several motors and scratched my head at their engineering on more than one occasion. I'm sure that in some if not all occasions, I just wasn't seeing the full picture, just the end users point of view.

If Ford were to install their own oil separator/catch can they would have had to installed an idiot light to tell people when to empty it. Just a thought.

What do u think about plumbing the breather from both valve covers into a single Bob's catch can?? I asked this on the other thread but it was buried within a pretty long rant and I'm sure got camouflaged.

 

[Iceman5000]

ummmm.....clogging which reduces flow and heat transfer IS exactly what I mean by intercooler "related" failure.

How many 10 year old '03 cobra's have you seen or heard of with a "clogged" intercooler. Me personally... zero.

Let's look at it another way. Ford has been torture testing these blown modulars on their engine dyno's for years. They run them night and day with the exhaust manifolds glowing for thousands and thousands of miles. After this torture, they tear them down for inspection. Don't you think that if the intercoolers were getting "clogged" or degraded with oil residue that they may have noticed that? They monitor every sensor they have on the dyno, so if the intercooler was loosing efficiency due to the residue, they would have logged it in the air temp data.

I have personally run 4 factory blown modulars over the past decade for a bunch of miles and I have never had any problem what so ever with oil residue blocking or degrading my intercooler.

Again, do whatever you like, but the constant gushing about this "mod" that distills oil from oil vapor is a little much for me.

Take care,
Kevin

Your partially right. Ford does do all the testing and monitoring that you state. They also have tolerances that every part of an engine must live up to in order to pass. Ford tolerances on intercooler efficiency loss is up to 18% loss over the course of 100,000 miles. My personal tolerance on intercooler efficiency loss is much closer to 0%. Your intercooler is not going to fail if you don't use an oil separator. Your engine is not going to fail either. But they will remain much more efficient over their lifetime if you do. All auto manufacturers have the ability to design cars that will last forever, handle perfectly, etc. Unfortunately such cars would be prohibitively expensive, so every design decision is based on balancing cost with performance and longevity. Corners are usually cut on all three to obtain an affordable balance, and thus why we have aftermarket mods that perform so much better than the stock parts.

 

[ObieFox]

The Lightning and 03/04 Cobra guys can attest to intercooler contamination and they've got the miles.

With the thousands of 03/04 cobras & lightnings running around out there with oil contaminated intercoolers and suffering from engine destroying oil vapor and heat induced detonation, I'm sure that someone can point me to a Ford TSB on the topic.

I'm sure they have a new recommended cleaning interval or something to help mitigate all the expensive warranty work that they are having to do to fix these customers vehicles.

Man, if there was just something inexpensive that could be done to fix this once and for all and avoid all these costly warranty claims and unhappy customers.

Anyone...a TSB...anyone?

Take care,
Kevin

 

[carguy19]

the major problem you will have if you dont use a separator is that you will lower the octane level of the fuel because of the extra oil in the mixture. When the car is fairly new, its a non issue. With the protection and leeway in the factory base tune, there won't be an issue. When people use a hotter, more performance oriented tune, with higher timing and boost, its important to keep the oil out of the mixture and out of the intake tract and off the intercooler to keep the car working like the day you had it tuned. There will be less margin for error for protection especially over a long period of time if you push the car and add performance parts. Thats why people use the catch can.

 

[ObieFox]

Your partially right. Ford does do all the testing and monitoring that you state. They also have tolerances that every part of an engine must live up to in order to pass. Ford tolerances on intercooler efficiency loss is up to 18% loss over the course of 100,000 miles. My personal tolerance on intercooler efficiency loss is much closer to 0%. Your intercooler is not going to fail if you don't use an oil separator. Your engine is not going to fail either. But they will remain much more efficient over their lifetime if you do. All auto manufacturers have the ability to design cars that will last forever, handle perfectly, etc. Unfortunately such cars would be prohibitively expensive, so every design decision is based on balancing cost with performance and longevity. Corners are usually cut on all three to obtain an affordable balance, and thus why we have aftermarket mods that perform so much better than the stock parts.

You know what Iceman, I agree with you 100%. My initial point was that messing with the PCV system on a car that you plan to otherwise keep stock for warranty reasons, is a bad idea.

If you are walking away from your warranty and doing additional mods, I say have at it. But screwing with the PCV system and exposing yourself and your warranty to fix a nonexistent problem on a $17k+ engine, seems like bad odds to me.

All of my other smart ass comments were just meant to show that the system, as delivered by Ford, is meeting their long term efficiency and performance specifications.

Take care,
Kevin

 

[Poppacapp]

I agree it's best to keep that stuff out of your intake, but i prefer more quantifiable data than just pictures before I panic. How many cfm did that engine pick up after the core was replaced? How much horsepower was reclaimed? Did the discharge temperature drop a measurable amount? How do those numbers compare to an engine that has used an oil seperator for the same duty cycle, assuming both are properly maintained?

It would be cool if someone would do a 150,000 mile comparison between an engine with/without an oil seperater. Until that happens, I'd consider buying one for peace-of-mind, but I wouldn't be afraid to drive my car without one. That's all I'm saying.

Oil in the intake tract has been proven to lower the octane of the fuel, thereby causing more potential for detonation.

 

[mullens]

Comparing a hood strut modification to a crank case ventilation system modification with regards to voiding a warranty is ridiculous at best.

I was being a bit sarcastic to illustrate the far fetched possibility of your scenario.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

If Ford were to install their own oil separator/catch can they would have had to installed an idiot light to tell people when to empty it. Just a thought. Good Point.

What do u think about plumbing the breather from both valve covers into a single Bob's catch can?? I asked this on the other thread but it was buried within a pretty long rant and I'm sure got camouflaged.

It shouldn't be terribly difficult the problem is routing the lines in a clean and neat fashion across the engine bay.

Your partially right. Ford does do all the testing and monitoring that you state. They also have tolerances that every part of an engine must live up to in order to pass. Ford tolerances on intercooler efficiency loss is up to 18% loss over the course of 100,000 miles. My personal tolerance on intercooler efficiency loss is much closer to 0%. Your intercooler is not going to fail if you don't use an oil separator. Your engine is not going to fail either. But they will remain much more efficient over their lifetime if you do. All auto manufacturers have the ability to design cars that will last forever, handle perfectly, etc. Unfortunately such cars would be prohibitively expensive, so every design decision is based on balancing cost with performance and longevity. Corners are usually cut on all three to obtain an affordable balance, and thus why we have aftermarket mods that perform so much better than the stock parts.

The key is keeping the car stock and Ford's testing to 100,000 miles. 3/36 or 6/60 after that you're on your own.

the major problem you will have if you dont use a separator is that you will lower the octane level of the fuel because of the extra oil in the mixture. When the car is fairly new, its a non issue. With the protection and leeway in the factory base tune, there won't be an issue. When people use a hotter, more performance oriented tune, with higher timing and boost, its important to keep the oil out of the mixture and out of the intake tract and off the intercooler to keep the car working like the day you had it tuned. There will be less margin for error for protection especially over a long period of time if you push the car and add performance parts. Thats why people use the catch can.

Precisely.

You know what Iceman, I agree with you 100%. My initial point was that messing with the PCV system on a car that you plan to otherwise keep stock for warranty reasons, is a bad idea.

If you are walking away from your warranty and doing additional mods, I say have at it. But screwing with the PCV system and exposing yourself and your warranty to fix a nonexistent problem on a $17k+ engine, seems like bad odds to me.

All of my other smart ass comments were just meant to show that the system, as delivered by Ford, is meeting their long term efficiency and performance specifications.

Take care,
Kevin

Kevin

This is from a 2013 that has 1,500 miles on it. No oil separator and was broke in easy. I've got customers that order the separator and an extra PCV line for the passenger side. One bolt and two clips and it's back to stock before they go to the dealer if they so desire.

It's all good and this is a good discussion. I don't believe it's "shock and awe" or "gushing" for a new mod. It's just individual owner perspective, just like your individual owner perspective.

Thanks

Van

 

[NvrEnfHP]

This is from a 2013 that has 1,500 miles on it. No oil separator and was broke in easy. I've got customers that order the separator and an extra PCV line for the passenger side. One bolt and two clips and it's back to stock before they go to the dealer if they so desire.



Van

I just purchased the Bob's catch can from you yesturday. My understanding was it can be taken off and put back to stock. I didn't know that I would have to cut lines to install the Bobs catch can. I want the piece of mind knowing the can is there catching oil, but I don't want to cut up my factory system. For 200$ I thought it was all inclusive.. :shrug:

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

I just purchased the Bob's catch can from you yesturday. My understanding was it can be taken off and put back to stock. I didn't know that I would have to cut lines to install the Bobs catch can. I want the piece of mind knowing the can is there catching oil, but I don't want to cut up my factory system. For 200$ I thought it was all inclusive.. :shrug:

Never has been. It's not a major modification. You don't have to cut anything either. You can soak the stock PCV line in hot water and pull the fittings out of the stock lines.

 

[NvrEnfHP]

Never has been. It's not a major modification. You don't have to cut anything either. You can soak the stock PCV line in hot water and pull the fittings out of the stock lines.

Thanks, I will give this a try first.

 

[Imatk]

Never has been. It's not a major modification. You don't have to cut anything either. You can soak the stock PCV line in hot water and pull the fittings out of the stock lines.

Yeah but how do you get the fittings back in once they're out?