(2) Lund Custom Tunes And Still......

[Bad as L]

As soon as you said Union 76 I had to cringe.....I only tried that crap twice in my Lightning and it was unbelievable.....I filled up at a station in Redmond just off of 405 and before I made it back to the freeway the truck was a rattling mess....this happened at two different stations before I wised up...the other was in Auburn.

Use the Chevron

 

[Ninjak]

Interesting..........

 

[Joe5.0]

As soon as you said Union 76 I had to cringe.....I only tried that crap twice in my Lightning and it was unbelievable.....I filled up at a station in Redmond just off of 405 and before I made it back to the freeway the truck was a rattling mess....this happened at two different stations before I wised up...the other was in Auburn.

Use the Chevron

No kidding? That is very interesting. How long ago was that?

 

[blackshelby]

..............Detonation and Pinging at 1/2 throttle on the dyno.

I tell you what guys this has been an absolute nightmare. I purchased the basics from Lethal Performance back in early August for the car....

-Innovators West 10%
-FRPP Monoblade TB
-JLT 127mm Carbon Fiber Intake
-Sct Xcal 3 With now (2) Lund Racing tunes
-Gates Belt
-Ngk TR'6's Gapped at 0.30

Tried to take it down to Brads Custom Auto here in Seattle....an extremely well known shop, and the car went into limp mode and barely ran/stummbled all over the place. When i arrived back home i adjusted some of the clamps on the upper intake tubing, and also moved the air filter farther down on the inlet pipe. The car then ran like an absolute dream all the way down to the dyno shop, but had a bloppy idle.

Once the car was hooked up to the dyno, we discovered it was reading 25% lean at idle which was causing the flucuation of RPMS. Next we went ahead and tried to do a quick pull on the dyno to 4,000 RPMS, and around 1/2 throttle the car detonates and pings extremely bad, suggesting it is running lean. We then went ahead and notified Lund Racing of the issue, and they confirmed.....and i quote:

"The file you were sent did not have the proper adjustments for the throttle body. This is the correct file. Sorry about the mixup"

Ok so no big deal right? Nobody is perfect not even John Lund ( Or whoever tuned the ****Ing car)

They sent me a new custom tune, i loaded it into the car and it definately took care of the surging idle and runs alot better. But the car is STILL having the same issues. Detonation and pinging at 1/2 throttle or so. Brad shows that the fuel trims in the tune are off.

Lund Racing went on to suggest that the car may have "Bad Fuel" and that fuel in the Northwest is Notorious for bad fuel issues (92 Octane From 76 here in Washington State) and that i need some octane booster or better fuel. LOL!

Knowone told me that i need to run octane booster ON EVERY TANK OF GAS

-OR-

Run a higher quality of fuel (93 Octane which is near impossible to find here)

I suggested that a Datalog be sent into Lund Racing and was told:

"Datalogs shouldn't be needed. The tune is being run worldwide by all of our and Lunds customers and it seems to be very finicky with certain fuels"

We Datalogged the car on the dyno and it clearly shows that the long term fuel trims are off. Brad sent them the DataLog on Monday and ofcourse we have yet to hear anything back....

The point here is that the car STILL does not run right after (2) John Lund custom tunes, and has been sitting at the shop costing me who knows how much money just sitting there. Hopefully John Lund Racing helps get this right, i understand that knowone is perfect but for being so well known on the hours put into these cars.....im not very impressed, and extremely pissed off thus far.

Any input helps guys.

So is the bad gas causing the fuel trims to be off 25 percent too or just the Detonation?
I would think the knock sensors would pull the timing out ....
Sure sounds more like the MAF transfer curve is off/wrong in the tune, more likley then bad gas being the cause.

Since the transfer curve will directly effect load.(timing maps and other maps). If the load is to far off the knock sensors will not be able to pull out enough timing.
More then likely why your fuel trims are off by 25 percent too.

 

[GreggsSVT]

..............Detonation and Pinging at 1/2 throttle on the dyno.

I tell you what guys this has been an absolute nightmare. I purchased the basics from Lethal Performance back in early August for the car....

-Innovators West 10%
-FRPP Monoblade TB
-JLT 127mm Carbon Fiber Intake
-Sct Xcal 3 With now (2) Lund Racing tunes
-Gates Belt
-Ngk TR'6's Gapped at 0.30

Tried to take it down to Brads Custom Auto here in Seattle....an extremely well known shop, and the car went into limp mode and barely ran/stummbled all over the place. When i arrived back home i adjusted some of the clamps on the upper intake tubing, and also moved the air filter farther down on the inlet pipe. The car then ran like an absolute dream all the way down to the dyno shop, but had a bloppy idle.

Once the car was hooked up to the dyno, we discovered it was reading 25% lean at idle which was causing the flucuation of RPMS. Next we went ahead and tried to do a quick pull on the dyno to 4,000 RPMS, and around 1/2 throttle the car detonates and pings extremely bad, suggesting it is running lean. We then went ahead and notified Lund Racing of the issue, and they confirmed.....and i quote:

"The file you were sent did not have the proper adjustments for the throttle body. This is the correct file. Sorry about the mixup"

Ok so no big deal right? Nobody is perfect not even John Lund ( Or whoever tuned the ****Ing car)

They sent me a new custom tune, i loaded it into the car and it definately took care of the surging idle and runs alot better. But the car is STILL having the same issues. Detonation and pinging at 1/2 throttle or so. Brad shows that the fuel trims in the tune are off.

Lund Racing went on to suggest that the car may have "Bad Fuel" and that fuel in the Northwest is Notorious for bad fuel issues (92 Octane From 76 here in Washington State) and that i need some octane booster or better fuel. LOL!

Knowone told me that i need to run octane booster ON EVERY TANK OF GAS

-OR-

Run a higher quality of fuel (93 Octane which is near impossible to find here)

I suggested that a Datalog be sent into Lund Racing and was told:

"Datalogs shouldn't be needed. The tune is being run worldwide by all of our and Lunds customers and it seems to be very finicky with certain fuels"

We Datalogged the car on the dyno and it clearly shows that the long term fuel trims are off. Brad sent them the DataLog on Monday and ofcourse we have yet to hear anything back....

The point here is that the car STILL does not run right after (2) John Lund custom tunes, and has been sitting at the shop costing me who knows how much money just sitting there. Hopefully John Lund Racing helps get this right, i understand that knowone is perfect but for being so well known on the hours put into these cars.....im not very impressed, and extremely pissed off thus far.

Any input helps guys.

Going to a forum and bashing people sure won't help much!

I would have your local guy tune your car and good luck with that!

Funny, how many people have a dyno and can't tune!

 

[Bad as L]

No kidding? That is very interesting. How long ago was that?

Not long after I got the '00 Lightning maybe early 2002, not long after that it got its first new engine.
The thing is I had intermittent problems when I was racing a Buick GN but never traced to the gas...I just started running 100 octane all the time because I can get at the pump at a 76 station in Auburn. I won't run 76 gasoline but I will by fuel from them.

Anyway, it isn't that it is bad gas, the gas was fresh but the blown motor obviously doesn't like that recipe of the fuel. There is something about it that isn't working with the higher cylinder pressures.

With the Lightning I was able to catch it in the act so to speak. I pulled into the station on an empty tank and filled it up and when I pulled back out in traffic I stepped on it a little and it rattled like a can a marbles and that got my attention because at the time it still had stock rods in it. At a later date I tried it again at a high volume gas station and it was the same results so that was enough for me. The truck was not stock at the time and I was going to the track as often as possible. It had mail order tunes and back then it was a stock Eaton and a 2 lb pulley and lots of timing, not exactly optimum by todays standards.

Dale

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

The MAF curve is correct and the tune is most likely correct. Something is happening in the electronic transfer of data either through the email of the tune or something is awry with the handheld device or there is something mechanical with the car.

Your set up is a known set up. The MAF curve is calibrated and is a known MAF Transfer Function based on what Lund has told me personally and directly.

I've personally sold a number of these exact same kits to a number of 2013 and older GT500's without issue. When there have been issues it has been worked out. One instance was a cracked intake tube where a slight amount of un-metered air was getting in past the MAF meter without throwing a code. There have been other isolated issues but it was in most cases a problem with material or corruption in file transfer.

Look at BIRDDOC as an example. Similar set up and many other customers of Revan Racing and Lund Racing running a similar set up without issue.

Time to dig in a little deeper to the changed pieces and evaluate and possibly update the firmware on the SCT Tuner and get the tune sent in a ZIP file to an alternative email address and re-load. The success stories far outweigh the problems and I hope some of these suggestions help you resolve the problem.

Van

 

[Bad as L]

You mentioned at the top of your post that you reclocked a couple of clamps and repositioned the filter on the inlet tube and it made the car run quite a bit different....this is a very strong clue.
Your car really should be set up exactly like the car that the tune was made on....that's not so easy to do.
MAF sensors are so touchy to just about everything...it's not even funny.

 

[railroad]

Air leak.

 

[rdsnk46]

Air leak.

Bingo!!!!

91Svtbird seems to think Jon does not know how to tune the 2013 MATF. No love for Lund Racing?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Bingo!!!!

91Svtbird seems to think Jon does not know how to tune the 2013 MATF. No love for Lund Racing?

Nothing new RNSNK46.

91Svtbird and blackshelby both have issues with Lund Racing yet there is a Lund Racing and what are they? Not vendors on SVTPerformance and providing offsite links to tuning manifesto's on their own Forum a possible violation of SVTPerformance Rules (unauthorized solicitation), because most people don't want to listen to their bullshit on SVTP. They have no clue what Lund Racing does and they have no clue how Lund Racing calibrates a MAF curve or the associating injector slopes or how they tune. They make wild ass guess assumptions and frankly I've watched it for two plus years now and I'm through with it. Does anybody really think these two guys can look over Jon Lund's shoulder?

These two remind of Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon albeit they are a few years younger. Still grumpy and know it all.

 

[gkviper192]

nothing new rnsnk46.

91svtbird and blackshelby both have issues with lund racing yet there is a lund racing and what are they? Not vendors on svtperformance and providing offsite links to tuning manifesto's on their own forum a possible violation of svtperformance rules (unauthorized solicitation), because most people don't want to listen to their bullshit on svtp. They have no clue what lund racing does and they have no clue how lund racing calibrates a maf curve or the associating injector slopes or how they tune. They make wild ass guess assumptions and frankly i've watched it for two plus years now and i'm through with it. Does anybody really think these two guys can look over jon lund's shoulder?

These two remind of walter matthau and jack lemmon albeit they are a few years younger. Still grumpy and know it all.

+1

 

[blackshelby]

Nothing new RNSNK46.

91Svtbird and blackshelby both have issues with Lund Racing yet there is a Lund Racing and what are they? Not vendors on SVTPerformance and providing offsite links to tuning manifesto's on their own Forum a possible violation of SVTPerformance Rules (unauthorized solicitation), because most people don't want to listen to their bullshit on SVTP. They have no clue what Lund Racing does and they have no clue how Lund Racing calibrates a MAF curve or the associating injector slopes or how they tune. They make wild ass guess assumptions and frankly I've watched it for two plus years now and I'm through with it. Does anybody really think these two guys can look over Jon Lund's shoulder?

These two remind of Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon albeit they are a few years younger. Still grumpy and know it all.

LMAO

I think you should check the SVT rules, vendor or not especially #17.

I have not broken any SVT rules here, you I am not so sure of.

I can see you are trying to side track this thread off the main issue in post #1

Sorry you don't like my opinion on what the possible issue could be(Post #24)

You stated it a few times how the MAF calibration is done in the tune's you and Jon do ...and yes I don't agree with it. (It is not Ford's preferred choice)
Nobody is guessing here, it is strictly statements made by you .
So yes going by your statements in the past on how you/Jon calibrate the MAF transfer curves I do feel my post 24 is a possible issue with his car.
Another possibility could even be what you said about the intake tube being cracked.
The issue in post #1 sure sounds like it is something in the MAF either tune-wise or mechanical.

Years of experience doing this yes.... 28 plus years. Know it all..... nope, grumpy maybe a little.... but both of those categories you have it won hands down.

One thing I do know.........
I personally have tuned more cars, raced more cars , have hundreds more time-slips and plenty more records, then both you and Lund racing put together.

You have your opinion and I have mine.
That's America isn't it a great country

Have a good day.
Jim LaRocca

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

LMAO

I think you should check the SVT rules, vendor or not especially #17.

I have not broken any SVT rules here, you I am not so sure of.

I can see you are trying to side track this thread off the main issue in post #1

Sorry you don't like my opinion on what the possible issue could be(Post #24)

You stated it a few times how the MAF calibration is done in the tune's you and Jon do ...and yes I don't agree with it. (It is not Ford's preferred choice)
Nobody is guessing here, it is strictly statements made by you .
So yes going by your statements in the past on how you/Jon calibrate the MAF transfer curves I do feel my post 24 is a possible issue with his car.
Another possibility could even be what you said about the intake tube being cracked.
The issue in post #1 sure sounds like it is something in the MAF either tune-wise or mechanical.

Years of experience doing this yes.... 28 plus years. Know it all..... nope, grumpy maybe a little.... but both of those categories you have it won hands down.

One thing I do know.........
I personally have tuned more cars, raced more cars , have hundreds more time-slips and plenty more records, then both you and Lund racing put together.

You have your opinion and I have mine.
That's America isn't it a great country

Have a good day.
Jim LaRocca

You're funny. The unspoken rule of SVTPerformance...........19. You had better have a thick skin. I'll let SVT Performance determine whether or not you've violated any rules even though I was busting your balls. oke: Have a little fun Jim. Every couple of months we get the "Reference to Jim LaRocca and his Super Tuning Manifesto" Just because I said something in the past (referring to being on a dyno and not having a flow bench) doesn't necessarily mean that is how it is "Always" done. Lund Racing DOES Use flowed MAF curves and always has.

Then you go over to the other GT500 forum on SVTP and post this comment.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...eems-hang-little-after-mods.html#post12185198

+1 Exactly

If some of these tuners understood half of what Dev does, people would finally start to see that 99 percent of these tuners who think they are the best thing since slice bread really are clueless when it comes to these systems. Especially the way they come up with the flow and transfer curves for the CAI used.(That's where most of the issue are)
If these tuners did it the way Dev and ford/ford racing does they wouldn't have hanging idles , pinging at half throttle etc.
Maybe we all wouldn't hear the bad gas and bad parts BS anymore.
Last edited by blackshelby; 09-07-2012 at 10:53 PM..


I copied and pasted your last edited comment from that thread just so you don't change it because something struck a chord with you when you made your original post reply to me this morning at 2:19 AM and then modified it again at 3:41 AM. Do you sleep? Not enough sleep will make you grumpy! :lol1: oke:

I took the convenience of doing a bold underline of your comments from the other forum calling out tuners and bad parts and then your comments here. Which is On Topic IMO. ie. possibly a bad component because the tune is a known tune and a known file.

I'm the least bit grumpy. :lol1: I've got lots of records too Jim. I won the Presidential Physical Fitness Award 7 years in a row in grade school. I have a number of awards from the Karate Tournaments I won in high school and I played competitive golf at the amateur level for 6 years after college. I also have a couple of time sheets that say I have driven the fastest Standing Mile Supercharged GT500's in the World. Nobody gives a crap about what I did in the past. All anybody really cares about is what have you done for "The SVTP Community lately....................?????????" Tell people their tune is bad?

Yes it is America and you are entitled to your opinion. At some point you should probably realize that maybe, just maybe, Lund Racing is doing it correctly when you look at a business that is growing exponentially and recently graced the cover of 5.0 Magazine with their 206 MPH Standing Mile Twin Turbo 5.0.

I completely trust Lund Racing and they know what they are doing and they will help get the OP's issue resolved. Hopefully the community can help the OP as well.

Back to the OP issue. It's either electronic corruption in file transfer via email or possibly the handheld device to the PCM or it's something mechanical as I previously mentioned. Can you do a smoke check or possibly a black light to check the intake tube for cracks?

Van

 

[Sonic605hp]

Boom goes the dynamite.

 

[GreggsSVT]

You're funny. The unspoken rule of SVTPerformance...........19. You had better have a thick skin. I'll let SVT Performance determine whether or not you've violated any rules even though I was busting your balls. oke: Have a little fun Jim. Every couple of months we get the "Reference to Jim LaRocca and his Super Tuning Manifesto" Just because I said something in the past (referring to being on a dyno and not having a flow bench) doesn't necessarily mean that is how it is "Always" done. Lund Racing DOES Use flowed MAF curves and always has.

Then you go over to the other GT500 forum on SVTP and post this comment.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...eems-hang-little-after-mods.html#post12185198

+1 Exactly

If some of these tuners understood half of what Dev does, people would finally start to see that 99 percent of these tuners who think they are the best thing since slice bread really are clueless when it comes to these systems. Especially the way they come up with the flow and transfer curves for the CAI used.(That's where most of the issue are)
If these tuners did it the way Dev and ford/ford racing does they wouldn't have hanging idles , pinging at half throttle etc.
Maybe we all wouldn't hear the bad gas and bad parts BS anymore.
Last edited by blackshelby; 09-07-2012 at 10:53 PM..


I copied and pasted your last edited comment from that thread just so you don't change it because something struck a chord with you when you made your original post reply to me this morning at 2:19 AM and then modified it again at 3:41 AM. Do you sleep? Not enough sleep will make you grumpy! :lol1: oke:

I took the convenience of doing a bold underline of your comments from the other forum calling out tuners and bad parts and then your comments here. Which is On Topic IMO. ie. possibly a bad component because the tune is a known tune and a known file.

I'm the least bit grumpy. :lol1: I've got lots of records too Jim. I won the Presidential Physical Fitness Award 7 years in a row in grade school. I have a number of awards from the Karate Tournaments I won in high school and I played competitive golf at the amateur level for 6 years after college. I also have a couple of time sheets that say I have driven the fastest Standing Mile Supercharged GT500's in the World. Nobody gives a crap about what I did in the past. All anybody really cares about is what have you done for "The SVTP Community lately....................?????????" Tell people their tune is bad?

Yes it is America and you are entitled to your opinion. At some point you should probably realize that maybe, just maybe, Lund Racing is doing it correctly when you look at a business that is growing exponentially and recently graced the cover of 5.0 Magazine with their 206 MPH Standing Mile Twin Turbo 5.0.

I completely trust Lund Racing and they know what they are doing and they will help get the OP's issue resolved. Hopefully the community can help the OP as well.

Back to the OP issue. It's either electronic corruption in file transfer via email or possibly the handheld device to the PCM or it's something mechanical as I previously mentioned. Can you do a smoke check or possibly a black light to check the intake tube for cracks?

Van

Van I really think this is funny. Because your all about sales. If It wasn't for Jon, where would you be? I think you have to admit there are problems but Jon has gone way beyond to try to correct the few issues that have surfaced. I think Jon is a great guy and a true professional in everyhing he does. You could learn from him.

True professional try to work together to fix problems. Look at Obama and Romney. LOL! It's America!


It's America!
It's America!

 

[rdsnk46]

Van I really think this is funny. Because your all about sales. If It wasn't for Jon, where would you be? I think you have to admit there are problems but Jon has gone way beyond to try to correct the few issues that have surfaced. I think Jon is a great guy and a true professional in everyhing he does. You could learn from him.

True professionals try and work together to fix problems. But, hey, it's America!

Holy pissing match.........

I just dont like it when poeple point fingers. I hope that the OP can find the issue and get to the root of the problem. It's about the enjoyment we get from the cars! Thats the whole reason behind it.

 

[rdsnk46]

Hey GreeSVT

I'm pretty sure Van put together the heat exchanger the became the dominant performing unit in the market 4 years running. It worked so well that Shelby decided to make it a part of there product line.

I think your statement reguarding what Van would be without Jon is really a low blow with no backing. He is known as the best customer service guy in the GT500 industry. He has a huge knowledge of products and always bends over backwards for people like you with your issues.

One thing I know being in business myself is.....

1. You can please all of the peolpe some of the time

2. You can please some of the people all of the time

3. But you cant please all of the people all of the time

Your statement where would Van be without Jon is bullshit...........

 

[buck24]

Van I really think this is funny. Because your all about sales. If It wasn't for Jon, where would you be? I think you have to admit there are problems but Jon has gone way beyond to try to correct the few issues that have surfaced. I think Jon is a great guy and a true professional in everyhing he does. You could learn from him.

True professional try to work together to fix problems. Look at Obama and Romney. LOL! It's America!


It's America!
It's America!

I do not post very often, but I had to speak up and defend not just a vendor but someone who has become a friend of mine after all he has done for me and my car. I have had the pleasure of working with Van for the past few years of GT500 ownership. Van has bent over back words for me, overnighting parts needed, selling my supercharger for me, taking phone calls at all hours, even when I wasn't calling to buy something. He has taken a lot of time to educate me on my car more than any other "sales" person ever had.

That being said, knowing Van and Jon, I am sure they will take of the issue, because for them, the customer is always first, and I wish you luck with your car.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

I do not post very often, but I had to speak up and defend not just a vendor but someone who has become a friend of mine after all he has done for me and my car. I have had the pleasure of working with Van for the past few years of GT500 ownership. Van has bent over back words for me, overnighting parts needed, selling my supercharger for me, taking phone calls at all hours, even when I wasn't calling to buy something. He has taken a lot of time to educate me on my car more than any other "sales" person ever had.

That being said, knowing Van and Jon, I am sure they will take of the issue, because for them, the customer is always first, and I wish you luck with your car.

Thanks for the kind words Buck and RDSNK46!!!

Hey Buck, you need to update your Signature to Kenne Bell 2.8 with a Griggs Chassis!