Enough already, stop teasing and tell us everything.
Evolution GT500 goes boom?
- Thread starter Trbo6gn1
- Start date
Enough already, stop teasing and tell us everything.
Ill post up what i know first thing in the morning, i would like to give evo a call first and make sure everything is good....i like those guys fred is a bit of an (Edited by moderator) but he knows what he is talking about and i respect him for it.
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So after talking to Fred about some possible upgrades to my car and considering putting rods in my car, I finally just asked "so what happend to your all's car? He wasn't hesitant to anwser he simply said. ..We had a rod break on us and when it did it cracked the block...So I asked was it to much power? And then he went on to explain that the power wasn't the issue the issue was overreving the engine..I was told that they were shifting their car at 7500rpm which as we know is insane...they said they wanted to find the weak spots well they found them .. He went on to say that they had over 100 passes shifting at that rating..then I asked was it of benefit to shift that high because I had noticed on my graph that from about 5400 rpm on I was only gaining roughly 40rwhp but loosing nearly 200ft/lbs which is actually what moves the car down the track...He said they had a similar torque curve but by shifting it that high with the gearing it was dropping them down where they needed to be for the next gear...I though ok makes sense..so I went ahead to ask what are you replacing it with are you going to buy a block to sleeve and what rods..The reply was that they have ordered a second stock block as it wasn't the cause of the failure and they had full trust that I would handle the punishment and that they had a custom set of I-beams made for the car along with new pistons and file to fit rings...I'm sure they will have to have the rotating assembaly balanced to accomodate the new rods and pistons along with the block scuffed up a little to break in the new rings...in the end he said we found the limit and power isn't the issue its overrev. Really anything above 6k almost doubles the stress on the rod...unfortuantly Ford did skimp a little on these rods by putting what they call powder cracked forged rods in the car...the rods are good for the engine they engineered when you go adding another 2-300rwhp to a car you can bet on the need for an upgraded rotating assembely. I would still like to know the rating on the crank what forging process was used if it is 4140 or 51xx as that makes a big difference on the longevity of the crank...At the moment this is all I really know about what happend and I was assured that once they got it back together to hold on that it was going to be a monster....
Thanks for the info. Nice to know that if your going to mod, just keep the revs in check and a good tune should keep things together.
blackshelby
New Member
Pretty much what I stated in post 77 about the rod being an issue and where.
Nothing new here about the rods and the limit, they are the same rod as used in 07-12.
POST77 below
Quote:
Originally Posted by germeezy1
Other than the allowance for the added displacement I think that the limits are exactly what the 5.4 Condor's limits are.
pretty close......
Actually a little less on the 5.8 if really comparing both.
Less block material because of the additional displacement = weaker block/ More block movement
750 addition RPM allowed which almost doubles the load the rod will be at/see(6250/7000RPM) = rod failure with less HP because of the additional RPM(RPM kills rod rating)
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Last edited by blackshelby; 07-26-2012 at 05:51 PM..
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Agreed I was just passing on the info that I had recieved from the guys that blew theirs up, we all knew the rods were the issue, basically this post was a confirmation of what we all had already predicted in the beginning...
well the rods are good but just not up to par to handle that kind of stress ( power along with shifting at 7500 rpms) like Boss said, you can add some good power and as long as you are not going past redline all the time, your ok. If you really wanna bulletproof your engine, get a nice forged assembly and good to go! thanx for the info dustin, very informative!
With over 100 passes and several dyno runs at double the factory HP and shift points 500 RPM beyond red line... I dont think Ford skimped on the rods. I have a hard time thinking of powdered metal rods as durable performance hardware but the facts are indisputable. That is just insane.
Thanks for relaying your conversation, BTW. Good info (other than the rod comment :beer: ).
op:+1 this. Using the word "weak" to describe the rods is not accurate. Any car making 1000+bhp (which I'm sure Evo was), shifting past redline, with 100+ punishing passes and dyno pulls is sure to let something loose.. Built with the best or not.
By saying "weak" doesn't imply insufficient...last I had heard Evo was making somewhere between 850-900hp, not "double" the horsepower. There are people who are going to modify their cars and their are people who never will as they have a fear of the unknown. For those who get the bug...they will need to upgrade parts...the rods are indeed "weak" when compared to the rest of the motor/drivetrain or they wouldn't have been the first failure. Just as I have already found the clutch was "weak" on my car as I had to switch it out as it was slipping when it was stock. AS i said the rods are good for the engine they engineered for those who want to modify start looking into rods because with this car 900-1000hp will creep up on you real fast.
But thank you all for reading my post I'm sure glad you two were able to find a couple words to argue about...it's nice to know theres some that are "hanging" on my every word...im flattered.
dont take it personal dude, thats how some people are here. I understood your post for what it was and the info is appreciated...the fact is not everyone, hell almost no one will be running the power Evo is and punishing their car in that way....it is well designed. As I said before if you really want to be sure and bulletproof it then you build the engine with some really stout stuff...but for me, shes fine the way she is! hell I think the clutch would need to be addressed first along with proper suspension to get the power down :burnout:
I know I can't help it sometimes, I just think so many great imformative posts are lost to things like this when the subject is changed and the OP or someone with good info spends more time fighting irrevelencies than the actuall subject at hand.... And I agreed with everything you said...I am actually looking at rods myself, but decided like you said also to address the suspension and weight issue first.
If I offended those with my reply I apologize.
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I knew that would be the issue.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is a $25,000 engine. Truly exotic heads and block. Premium quality forged (real forgings) crank and pistons.
The PM rods simply don't belong in this engine. Going to boast about having the world's most powerful engine? Don't skimp on the rods. This is the most modified vehicle in the world. Even if you bought your vehicle at invoice, you handed Ford about 1/3rd more money than required for a set of GT Manley's when you paid the SVT fee.
Take the initiative Ford and put a real rod in this car. I'm quite sure you won't lose a single sale because of it.
Tob
Based on Evo's response to Sirloins question below, I'd say "at least 1,000" to the rear wheels. This is a difficult engine to criticize for the price.
It's been stated since 06...if you over rev these motors, the rods will let go. If you dont, you can have a ton of power and reliable as well. So if you plan on big power and for whatever reason feel the need to rev past fords 7k redline which is already up over the prior years, then id consider putting some rods in there that can handle it. I for one do not believe the rods are the weak link in this motor because they can handle plenty of power if you just keep it around 6k.
thanks for posting this, because this thread had been dragging for way too long haha
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