FRPP/Whipple kit content and install on '09 GT500

[Tob]

I was thinking would it be easier to remove the lower intake manifold from the engine and attach the s/c and fuel rails on a bench. Then install as an assembly. Then the dowels could be used and the RTV would be much easier and no special wrench would be required. Just a thought.

Trying to take the blower off, once the assembly was installed on the engine, would be a nightmare. I had my doubts about eliminating the dowels until I was threading in the bolts by hand. There isn't any slop. And you'd still have to get under the plenum in order to tighten the driver side rear bolt, as much as it might be slightly easier to do it on a bench. Accessing it from the rear would be cheating.

The GT 500 engine location in relation to the firewall vary about 5mm. Its best, instead of denting the firewall, to loosen the K-member and slide the motor forward.

We use .025" spark plug gap.

Thanks

Dustin(?), while the effective weight distribution change via shifting the K-member forward may be negligible, I think I'd still do it the same way were I to do it again. If I had a lift and the time to loosen everything, and then resquare everything - maybe. I'd just rather not increase static caster and instead keep the engine as far back as possible (this thing is a pig enough as it is).

But hey, this was my first GT500/2.9 Whipple install. After as many as you must have done, I'd probably come to the same conclusion and just do it the way you mention.;-)

Bottom line - you guys make one hell of a blower kit. The fact that FRPP teamed up with you and throw their ProCal into the mix only serves to make it that much better. Thanks for reaffirming the .025" spark plug gap. It seems to be on the small side, but hey, I'm certain there is sound tech behind the recommendation.

One question - upon engine shut off, there is a brief purge or "hissing" sound for about 1 or 2 seconds (you can it hear it at the end of each clip I linked up above). Is this just excess blower case pressure upon shut off? Where is it venting (back out of the intake tract?).

Tob

 

[bull3441]

still using stock cats/h-pipe set-up? just wondering if cats will hold up with whipple.

 

[Tob]

still using stock cats/h-pipe set-up? just wondering if cats will hold up with whipple.

Under "engine" in my sig, click on the PHRP H-pipe link.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-phrp-h-pipe-welded-into-place-installed.html

I'm fairly certain that FRPP would not have been able to get an EO certification had they not been able to demonstrate that the addition of this complete package would not degrade the "durability" of the emission control system. To quote from the actual EO procedure application to CARB...

D. Durability

If the Executive Officer has reason to believe, on the basis of an engineering evaluation, that an add-on or modified part will affect the durability of the vehicle emission control system, or that in the past the part did not demonstrate durability equivalent to the part or system replaced or added to, he or she will find that the modification will increase emissions. In such cases the applicant shall be required to submit durability data in order to show that the durability of the vehicle emission control system is not affected, and/or that the add-on or modified part demonstrates adequate durability.

From here.

Here are the certification levels at the OE level for the GT500 5.4 engine for MY 2009 if that isn't enough data for you.

Tob

 

[Willie2]

Are you running one? I was looking at a 2.9L with the FRPP intake under the brace.

no, i'm not running one. when I took off the brace for the 2.9 install I noticed where it was resting on my JLT CAI. i went to the garage earlier and loosley fit the KR brace on the car and it had plenty of clearance for the blower.

 

[me32]

Any word yet back from frpp on proper fuel pumps for 07-09 gt500

 

[Tob]

Any word yet back from frpp on proper fuel pumps for 07-09 gt500

Difficult to respond to "proper" as we could probably go a few different ways with that. I suppose your intent was simply with regard to to a '07-'09 pump that would be included in the kit that required no mods (yes?). I'll be as candid as I can about a response from FRPP.

A few days ago, I contacted the gentleman that sold me the kit. I forwarded to him a link to this thread, as I wanted him to see how things turned out. I asked if there was any way that he could forward the link to any of his contacts within FRPP. He did. He shared with me a couple of brief quotes from the responses he got. And while I consider our correspondence private, I think this community respects and appreciates the following more so that the gentleman that responded might ever know. Here was a response...

Thanks for the feedback! By the way, I forwarded the link to his forum post to Rob Deneweth who forwarded it to Whipple to see if we can address some of his minor issues with the kit. Tell him we (feel) that his feedback is important to us and we will do what we can to make the improvements he suggested.

Dev Saberwal
Performance / Racing Engine Calibration

I had read of Mr Saberwal numerous times, always in connection with seamless calibration work, and had asked if my thanks for his work could be forwarded. Knowing that the people at FRPP and Whipple work hard not only to offer these kits to the general public (thank God for capitalism!:-D) but are there for support when it becomes necessary is textbook good business practice. It is the reason why I waited for this kit and the reason why I will to continue to make purchases from both in the future.

How that boils down to any changes to the kit - I have no idea. I am but one voice in a sea of thousands, but I suspect if enough voices are heard, our needs and desires can be addressed. Simple economics speak volumes here, and with far more '07-'09 owners than '10 models...we'll have to see.

Tob

 

[6-Speed]

Another excellent write-up Tob. Thanks for taking the time to document and photograph the entire installation process; I know it extends the install time, but many folks will benefit from your efforts.

 

[Shaker1]

Hmmm, unless I missed it, I don't see the Whipple kit on Buyfordracing.com at this time.

 

[Tob]

Buyfordracing.com doesn't list every part that is carried in the FRPP catalog, but as the #2 FRPP dealer in the nation I assure you, they carry everything FRPP. Simply use the email address listed on their contact page...

Buy Ford Racing Parts - Contact Us

Thanks for taking the time to document and photograph the entire installation process; I know it extends the install time, but many folks will benefit from your efforts.

I rather enjoy being able to contribute to the community. It allows me to appreciate my ride that much more.

Tob

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

wow, that's really cool that FRPP/whipple is checking this thread out! that's really good to hear.

 

[DaFreak]

Tob,

How is the heat buildup now? Do you notice a big difference? Sorry if you posted this earlier but I didn't have time to read the entire post. :shrug:

DaFreak

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

i would think that there wouldn't be much of a difference, since twin screws are more efficient than roots style, and since the whipple is much larger(I.E., doesn't have to work as hard).

 

[Tob]

Tob,

How is the heat buildup now? Do you notice a big difference? Sorry if you posted this earlier but I didn't have time to read the entire post. :shrug:

DaFreak

Short of recording temps via an infared gun at various points when running and at shutdown (no thermocouples), my ass-o-meter/temperature gauge reads the same as it did before. Every idiot gauge that Ford felt this car needed reads the same (tells you a lot, huh?:lol1 I obviously need to upgrade to some more accurate means of instrumentation to accurately answer your question.

As to answering that question with respect to the way I drive it now - I notice no change. No doubt, the potential is there to develop much more heat generation than before what with the increased power the car now has. I do plan on adding either a C&R or Afco heat exchanger along with a larger tank atop the fan shroud.

To those that asked me to forward the photos from this write up - they're back up and will stay up!

Now, back to a part of the install that I've wanted to complete - the block off plate for the unused oblong hole in the airbox (unused by '07-'09 models that is). The instructions show the following photo regarding the install. My problem was that the kit I got didn't include one (note that there aren't any fasteners in place in the photo).

I contacted Michael Malicoat at Whipple almost immediately about it and he agreed to ship one out to me ASAP. I finally got the chance to pick it up today.

It appears to be a hard anodized CNC machined wafer of billet aluminum. I know what some of you may be thinking, that is just a simple plug! Well somebody spent quite a bit of time machining this thing and I think it a relevant component of the entire install, so don't mind me if I present my experience with the piece.

As mentioned, the plug fits into the oblong hole to the left of the mass air housing. You have to drill two small holes in the airbox in order to retain the plug.

Here it is snapped into place (a perfect interference fit, nice and snug once pushed into position and waiting for the box to be drilled).

I removed the airbox and transferred the hole locations to their exact location, as dictated by the holes in the plate. I drilled the top hole first as it is the easiest. An interference issue arises instantly, as the oval flange, which is molded at an angle and thus not perpendicular to the plate surface, is in the way...

Problem is that there is no room for the nut. I envisioned reversing the button head bolt with a ground down head, but decided I didn't want the excess portion of the bolt on the air filter side.

I considered adding the plate to the outside of the airbox along with longer fasteners, but you run into the same issue, just on the other side

The fastener location on the bottom of the plate is very close to an interference issue but just makes it.

So I decided that in order to be able to add a nut to the top bolt that I would relieve that portion of the airbox that was in the way. I laid out and drilled a 1/2" hole squared up to the previously drilled bolt hole

I then pulled out my favorite emergency dental tool in order to remove material that would prevent the nut from sitting flat

There is now room for a nut to fit over the bolt and sit square relative to its mating surface

I was now able to reinstall the plate, insert the fasteners and tighten them up.

I then reinstalled everything I had to remove.

The necessary mod isn't readily apparent

I didn't mind the extra steps necessary to install it, but I think Whipple can remedy this by simply adjusting their CNC program and by using a slightly longer chunk of billet. In essence, the "bolt flanges" need to be extended by approximately 3/8" in order to allow the necessary room to access the nuts.

Again, the plate is specifically for '07-'09 owners only. I looked and hoped for room to also adapt the '10-'11 CAI tubing through the nose, but there are too many obstructions on the earlier models to allow it to work. So the plug it is.

Tob

 

[me32]

Difficult to respond to "proper" as we could probably go a few different ways with that. I suppose your intent was simply with regard to to a '07-'09 pump that would be included in the kit that required no mods (yes?). I'll be as candid as I can about a response from FRPP.

A few days ago, I contacted the gentleman that sold me the kit. I forwarded to him a link to this thread, as I wanted him to see how things turned out. I asked if there was any way that he could forward the link to any of his contacts within FRPP. He did. He shared with me a couple of brief quotes from the responses he got. And while I consider our correspondence private, I think this community respects and appreciates the following more so that the gentleman that responded might ever know. Here was a response...



I had read of Mr Saberwal numerous times, always in connection with seamless calibration work, and had asked if my thanks for his work could be forwarded. Knowing that the people at FRPP and Whipple work hard not only to offer these kits to the general public (thank God for capitalism!:-D) but are there for support when it becomes necessary is textbook good business practice. It is the reason why I waited for this kit and the reason why I will to continue to make purchases from both in the future.

How that boils down to any changes to the kit - I have no idea. I am but one voice in a sea of thousands, but I suspect if enough voices are heard, our needs and desires can be addressed. Simple economics speak volumes here, and with far more '07-'09 owners than '10 models...we'll have to see.

Tob

thank you sir for that answer. this is stuff they need to know. :beer:

 

[me32]

also did anyone get info of the new pumps flow rate? an how much better it is than the stock pumps?

 

[me32]

FORD RACING SVT MUSTANG DUAL FUEL PUMP M-9H307-MSVTA: eBay Motors (item 370365842682 end time Oct-12-10 13:31:08 PDT)

I think $240 is a fair price for the pump assembly, modifications notwithstanding. FRPP dealers can probably beat that number.

i asked the seller about these pumps an he said that they are just stock replacement pumps for the 2010 GT500. so is the 2010 Fuel pump upgraded from the 07-09 fuel pumps?

 

[Tob]

I asked the seller about these pumps and he said that they are just stock replacement pumps for the 2010 GT500. So is the 2010 Fuel pump upgraded from the 07-09 fuel pumps?

Aside from the information I've been able to provide, I still think your question is entirely valid. Again, here is the part number shown on the box for the fuel pump

So clearly, FRPP lists the part # as M-9H307-MSVTA] (interesting to note that the box was relabeled but I can't make out the original number on the sticker underneath the new one). Whipple's "Pull Sheet" lists the pump as being a modified dual fuel pump and being sourced from Pauls HP.

PaulsHP.com doesn't have a very large selection of GT500 parts to offer at their website and I see nothing there regarding any fuel pump offerings either. https://www.paulshp.com/cgi-bin/webstorecgi/webstore.cgi?page=GT500&type=categories

I can't comment on any business relationship that PaulsHP may have with FRPP, but it is entirely plausible especially given the geographic closeness of the two with PaulsHP in Jackson, MI and FRPP in Livonia, MI.

There was mention in the MM&FF article about the pumps (from here).

A new FRPP high-output fuel pump assembly is dropped into the tank. The drop-in pump setup is a simple swap-and-play system that plugs into the same wiring harness as the stock setup. The two pumps are modified and flow 255 lph each.

I think it was one of Lethal's guys (along with a few others) that have referenced the pumps themselves as "Walbro GSS342 (return style) pumps inside a stock GT500 pump assembly".

The pump contained in the kit has yet to show up as an individual part in FRPP's online catalog, even within the new parts listing pages. That doesn't preclude the fact that it still might be available through them, necessarily. It may be listed soon - or maybe not (?). That's why I found it interesting that the gentleman selling them on eBay is listing the FRPP part number. Maybe we should ask Tousley if the FRPP part number shows it as being available as an individual part number (it must be, right?) along with their price.

Now to the core portion of your question - is the pump just a 2010 pump assembly? Ford parts and service online catalog has a page dedicated to the 2010 GT500 fuel supply system, here, as a "fuel pump and sender assembly", down at the bottom. They list it for $521.45, a price that most here won't ever pay;-). The part number, 9H307 (PFS-503) is definitely the 2010 pump assembly as used by 2010 vehicles.

If you change your parts query and search for a 2009 GT500 pump you see it listed as 9H307 (PFS-362). If I have my modern day parts numbering correct, the 9H307 is just Ford's designation as a part being fuel pump or system related, with either (PFS-503) or (PFS-362) further delineating the assembly by vehicle and applicable year(s).

I don't see Ford offering the assembly without the pumps. I assume FRPP has contracted the work (Hence, PaulsHP) to add the larger Walbro pumps and ship them directly to Whipple or to FRPP for boxing and shipment to Whipple in California.

In conclusion, remember that the 2010 pump housing is definitely different that the '07-'09 unit. While much of the two are similar, it is the 2010 housing that allows the larger pumps to fit (go back a few pages and refer to the photo comparison of the two different housing styles). Dustin, it would help if you could comment here!:-D

Note - you may have noticed what looked like another fuel pump assembly within the tank when you looked at Ford Parts' diagrams, over on the passenger side of the tank. I believe that is just the pickup for that side that is tied into the driver side pumps via the cross over tube (that I had to disconnect/reconnect during the swap). It is not the same as the pumps we are talking about here.

Tob

 

[SicShelby09]

One question - upon engine shut off, there is a brief purge or "hissing" sound for about 1 or 2 seconds (you can it hear it at the end of each clip I linked up above). Is this just excess blower case pressure upon shut off? Where is it venting (back out of the intake tract?).

Tob

My car has the stock blower/pulley as does this exact thing.

 

[Wingrider]

Awesome write up and work Tob!

Novice question: Why would you close off that port on the airbox? as open as the rest of it is I'd think it wouldn't matter. Also, wouldn't you want as many ways in as possible for that beast to get access to air to draw?

 

[Shaker1]

My neighbor, who worked at Roush, told me that Paul's HP has done quite a bit of work for Ford.