I don't get it. Was the car running properly WHEN it was brought in???
Avoid JJ @ Woodbine Motorsports
- Thread starter PhillyLS1
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Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not discrediting you. I wish I had the same set-up next to my house. However you rushed the work on my car when you live where you work. That was my point.
I never said you don't know what you're doing. I took my car to you because I heard you were a good tuner. Charisma can attest for this. However the tune you put in the car is not satisfactory. We are talking about the result. Your combativeness on the phone, and your condescension (coupled with the disbelief your tune could never be the problem) towards me is why I won't continue doing business with you.
True. You kept me in the loop about your travels to NMRA. However the end result was an unsatisfactory tune.
I gave you credit for this in my above statement. I apologize that happened. It's no one's fault.
I never said the bold. But for the sake of civility, let's say I did. I don't know how to tune, and I don't want to touch any options to possibly make a bad situation worse.
There's nothing mechanically wrong with the car. And if I ever find something wrong that I caused, or overlooked, I will be the first one to address this thread, call you, and apologize personally.
As I explained above, your unwillingness to LISTEN to my objections, and unwillingness to take accountability for the poor tune (which you keep blaming on mechanical) takes away my faith in your ability to pay attention to my car and self assess something you may have did and would rather pass the buck. I'm not a simpleton JJ, I just don't know how to tune. I know my cars, I know when there's something wrong, and I fix it right the first time.
I never blamed you for the bricking situation. If you read above, I wrote that.
I said these things not to embarrass you. I'm not sure what hearsay you've heard about how I "handle" myself. I've only taken my mustang to you. My Camaro has only gone to one shop in 10 years. What it sounds like is that you have a case of the ass even before I walked through the door. If that was the case, you should have simply told me to leave before you took my money.
So you admit to lying to me. That's real nice.
This is complete BS and conjecture.
I have the proprietary tune from Vortech sir. But even so, you admit you're a liar.
Did you read what I wrote? I told you I'd tow the car to you to look at. I don't want you tuning it or touching it. Why is it so hard for you to admit you simply screwed up or made a mistake?
JJ I will HAPPILY bring the tune that you say is in my car and dyno it at a 3rd party's location. I'll split the dyno time cost with you. We can even go back and forth loading the Vortech and your tune in and go from there lol.
Everyone screws up. It's how you deal with it that brings customer's back.
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Looks like pleasure is more important than the integrity of his work. Thank you for the warning, he should've paid you the money back just so you won't bash his ass and have this slide under the table..
Wow. I've always had positive experiences with JJ. Good luck OP.
Why would he go to NMRA with business still to be handled, or why would he take in business when he was going to NMRA rather?
Sux when people in business put their personal interest above service the customer. Seems to happen more often then it should! Eventually they will give you a refund, stay on them!
Honestly the guy probably got a bad tune. It does happens I have never seen a shop that does not make mistakes from time to time. The OP got the short end of the stick in that respect. But as a business owner myself I can 100% agree with shop not wanting to give a refund until they see the car and verify it's the tune. I can't tell you how many times I get hit with scammers that try to claim something and try to get their money back but once they have to bring it back suddenly their issues disappear.
I'm in the wheel and tire business I have had on multiple occasions a customer would get new wheels and tires. Call me a day or week later saying their car is shaking uncontrollably demanding their money back and refusing to bring it because they don't trust me. When I finally get them to come back I see a giant chunk missing out of the wheel and the tire cut to hell. Sometimes issues are legitimate sometimes they are not. You should have let the guy take a look at the car and verify his tune was the problem and if it was let him refund you right their. For all the guy knows the tune was switched after he drove out of their and the OP was trying for a free dyno tune. Or something got damaged and the OP was trying to recoup funds. Especially since he drove it and it was fine apparently.
Not saying you would do that OP but their are shady people that can and have done that and millions of other dirty tricks to get something for nothing. I think the OP was given a bad tune. I think the shop didn't believe their tune was the issue and tried to verify before they issued a refund. I think the shop gave poor customer service because they did not believe the tune was the issue. I think the OP would not let them verify that the issue was not mechanical and that threw the shop on guard.
I did see OP you offered to have them upload the "vortech tune" in front of them. I think if that had actually happened and the issue persisted they would have no excuses not to give a refund. But I do not blame the shop for wanting to verify the issues were their fault before issuing a refund their is just a ton of fraud out their.
What credit card company do you use. If its visa or mastercard you will probably lose. They tend to favor the merchant. If its Amex you will win they favor the customer. The issue is a toss up honestly. Because he is claiming mechanical issue and you are claiming tune issue and neither one of you can really PROVE it. The shop will say you had something fixed mechanically and that's why it's running right now and their is no way to prove otherwise unfortunately. So it tends to go towards which way the credit card company is biased.
I'm in the wheel and tire business I have had on multiple occasions a customer would get new wheels and tires. Call me a day or week later saying their car is shaking uncontrollably demanding their money back and refusing to bring it because they don't trust me. When I finally get them to come back I see a giant chunk missing out of the wheel and the tire cut to hell. Sometimes issues are legitimate sometimes they are not. You should have let the guy take a look at the car and verify his tune was the problem and if it was let him refund you right their. For all the guy knows the tune was switched after he drove out of their and the OP was trying for a free dyno tune. Or something got damaged and the OP was trying to recoup funds. Especially since he drove it and it was fine apparently.
Not saying you would do that OP but their are shady people that can and have done that and millions of other dirty tricks to get something for nothing. I think the OP was given a bad tune. I think the shop didn't believe their tune was the issue and tried to verify before they issued a refund. I think the shop gave poor customer service because they did not believe the tune was the issue. I think the OP would not let them verify that the issue was not mechanical and that threw the shop on guard.
I did see OP you offered to have them upload the "vortech tune" in front of them. I think if that had actually happened and the issue persisted they would have no excuses not to give a refund. But I do not blame the shop for wanting to verify the issues were their fault before issuing a refund their is just a ton of fraud out their.
What credit card company do you use. If its visa or mastercard you will probably lose. They tend to favor the merchant. If its Amex you will win they favor the customer. The issue is a toss up honestly. Because he is claiming mechanical issue and you are claiming tune issue and neither one of you can really PROVE it. The shop will say you had something fixed mechanically and that's why it's running right now and their is no way to prove otherwise unfortunately. So it tends to go towards which way the credit card company is biased.
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Why do you have a issue with that. Looks like he found a way to post here.
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OP, why dont you just let JJ look at the car and resolve the issues you are having?
From an outside point of view it sounds like bad communication. I say let JJ resolve the issues before anything.
I dont even know where to begin. Not only did keith say he put the stock vortech tune back in on the original post but that happens to be the one thing that he put in red font and is completely inaccurate. I can attest to there being nothing mechanically wrong too. How do I know? Ive driven it and spent a week in that car practically. I dont think keith has had any time to fix something like that since MW anyway.
We were on the fence about going to the Chicago NMRA event and the OP knew this when he called to find out if we had time to tune it before MW. He was kept abreast of our situation on a daily basis and understood. If the car didn't go into theft mode and if the computer didn't brick we would have had completed the car two days before leaving for the NMRA race.
We run a Coyote Stock car and have sponsors and with those sponsors come commitments which we uphold. Customers always come first and that's why we communicated with the OP about this situation from the start.
We offered to look at the car and were told no. The OP didn't want us to touch the car again and that's his right to do so but if we are not given a chance to make it right or try to find the problem which has obviously been fixed considering its running "flawless" on our tune then what are we supposed to do? The only way the OP wanted us to make it right was to give a full refund.
I don't know how to post text message shots but I just re read one of his first texts and its says;
"Car is throwing P2191 code, car is at 10.0 to 10.5 airfuel at WOT with 17* timing, car no longer stalls at lights but the idle jumps from 500-1100rpms coming to lights"
That text was sent to me while I was on the road to Chicago. Now a P2191 code is too lean not enough fuel which tells me, along with the airfuel readings and idle jumping that there was a vac leak causing the computer to add as much fuel as it could to compensate for the leak and/or unmetered air getting in.
Sorry but this isn't a bad tune, its a mechanical issue that has now been resolved as proven by running "flawless" now with the exact same tune it left here with.
This will be my last reply, thanks again for your time.
JJ
I called him the same night. I've never scammed anyone is my life, and my job depends on me being honest.
There's only one problem with your theory. JJ can have his tune back. He can take the credit card charge and send it to Adam @ Rev Auto. I'm not getting anything for free here. My car ran better before he put the tune in.
I will take my car, my tuner and my computer to JJ. He can take his tune out, put the Vortech back in, do the hokey-pokey, turn himself around, I don't honestly care. I just don't want him touching the car from a mechanical standpoint. In fact he can put the car back to stock from ford. I'll load my Vortech tune in and drive away.
I'm willing to do whatever to get my money back. I have nothing to hide. I'm not the liar trying to play games here. EVEN IF JJ was right, I didn't race at Darlington did I? I didn't do the autocross. Even if I fixed something mechanically wrong in his theory, he can have his stuff BACK.
I don't know what else I can do on my end to just get the tune out of my hands and into his and my money back.
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JJ you told me on the phone that code was cause by an exhaust nanny where the computer adds fuel or some damn thing and you didn't turn it off in the tune.
He's just making stuff up. Vacuum leak? WTF?
As everyone can see in this thread, I've offered numerous times to take the car to him etc. Now he's telling fairy tales about vacuum leaks.
Please everyone, avoid this guy. He can't make power with a V3 coyote and he only cares about his personal life.
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Wow, this is a horrible situation! OP is totally in the right here, it's obvious if you just take the time to read every post. To the guy talking about scammer's and refunds...that may be true for some but look at the OP. LE officer, served almost a decade in the army (thank you for your service btw), TWO 2013 mustang GT's, a new f-150, and a 900hp camaro that was nice enough to make it into a magazine article. Do u really think he's going to scam someone, let alone on a TUNE of all things??? I hope you get a full refund, that seems like the fair and only way to resolve this issue...
Sorry, I didn't see this.
Yes. That's a good point. Thank you. The car ran fine on a 91 octane tune from Vortech. I took the car to JJ to run a good time at Darlington.
The car left there with a bad tune. Now JJ is claiming it "developed" a mechanical issue after it left him. So by HIS logic... what happened between the time he had the car and I picked it up. Did I open the hood and cut a vacuum line? None of it makes any sense.
Thank you very much sir.
I have no reason to rip this man off. I gain nothing by this negative attention. I didn't get to race at Mustang week. Why would I not want to run my car for.... a free tune?
Never said you did or would scam anybody. But it's not a theory that kind of stuff happens all the the time. You probably did have a bad tune. But he does not know. He does a road test and has no issues and you take it home and have issues and do not want to bring it back, you just want a refund. Their are probably thousands of dead beats out their that pay for a dyno tune. Have the car drive fine but say it is running like crap and call the tuner and try to get a refund so they have a free dyno tune. From the way it sounded it seemed like you refused to bring back the car period. Which if it is the case I don''t blame him for not issueing a refund. As far as returns on a tune I have never heard of that. I've installed a few handheld tuners and they have all said no returns once installed in the vehicle. I can tell you that if he has an official policy against refunds on tunes in his terms and conditions. The credit card companies can't overule his policy and you will lose the dispute. Thats if it's in writing and clearly visible on his website or at his shop or he made you sign something.
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Never said OP was a scammer. But time in buisness has shown me alot. What the OP has, has nothing to do with it. I have had multi millionaires with an S65 AMG crash into a curb at 40 mph and bend a wheel then charge it back saying it was defective. Over $400 dollars. You have no idea what people will do for little or no money. But again I have never said OP is a scammer but in the real world that stuff happens. I do not know the OP or his car or the condition it came and went in. All I'm saying is their are reasons why a shop would want to verify the issue before they just go and hand out refunds that may not have been this case but may have happened in the past which is why shops have policies that require the OP to bring back their car.
to answer your question. No I do not think the OP is trying to scam anyone. But i'll ask you one. Do you think in ten years of operation the shop in question has never tuned somebodys car right and had them claim it was running like crap but they did not want to bring it back demanding a refund without verification?
and i'll repeat one more time I DO NOT THINK THAT IS THE CASE HERE. But a few cases like that will have any shop have a ''trust but verify'' attitude.
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Sorry but had to reply as Keith is twisting what transpired to suit his argument. I was on the road to chicago driving when I got his text about the code and I called him as I didn't want to text while driving. I told him I would look at the tune and see if anything could cause that code and I would go over the entire tune to make sure I shut off the items that need shut off etc...
Yes Keith I do have a personal life. I have a five year old son and I set my business hours accordingly however I texted and called you several times after hours to update you and was even available for a weekend drop off when the shop was closed. If all of that is a negative in your book then there is nothing I can do about that.
Yes you have offered to take the car to me but you won't let me check it out which makes me wonder why. What is the harm or was the harm in letting me see if the issue was mechanical.
Let me repeat one last time. Your car is running flawless as you put it with the exact same tune you left here with so it looms like the mechanical issue was fixed because tunes don't magically change from one day to another.
I've said my peace once again and it obvious the OP has an agenda to bash me and to get his money back instead of working with me to resolve the issue and have me check the car out and now its obvious he will say and twist what he wants to make me out to be the bad guy when I'm the one that offered help several times.
Its my tune on the car right now that is running flawless.
Regards
JJ
I will go outside right now, take a pic of the mileage, go to uhaul, get a trailer, bring the car to you. Now wiggle your way out of that one.
:wf:
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