Avoid JJ @ Woodbine Motorsports

[ctrlraven]

I've known JJ for a long time and know he is a good guy and has built his business on honesty, I also have know the OP for just as long.

I'm sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction Keith cause I know how much you love your Mustang and take such pride in them as well. Knowing both people I can only stay neutral and suggest you let JJ (who is offering) to sort this out. Maybe something was over looked and mistakes can happen, nothing can truly be pointed out unless it gets checked out. If JJ finds something wrong on his part he own up to it and if a refund idea comes up I think that should be strictly between you to and not blasted all over the forums.

Sometimes shit does happen, I wasted $400 on a dyno tune from another tuner, I truly found that out the one night we raced at Capitol when my car ran awful all night.

I hope your car can get squared away asap!

 

[Silverflames01]

At some point I remember reading that philly got a tune directly from vortech and put it on the car and all the problems went away...:shrug:

 

[latamud]

I'm just chiming in as character support for Keith. I've known him since 2007 when we were deployed in Iraq at DOMEX Main together. I've been between Iraq and Afghanistan almost a solid three years. Keith also helped me when I was buying a car out of Odenton, MD while I was still in Iraq and even offered to watch over it for me while I was still out of country. Heck, I'm in Afghanistan right now. I vouch for Keith's character and validate his integrity. Our line of work does require some of the highest degree of background investigations to gain the clearances we have. I know Keith in the car world, he's always been a GM guy and was a bit surprised to see him cross over to the Blue Oval. I'm sure JJ is a high standing guy himself. You don't get this far in the business by messing up so he's got to be doing something right. Keith does his reasearch, he wouldn't have taken his car to JJ if he had doubts.

 

[04azuremach]

Was installed by Vortech in California at their shop. Keith's car from what I understand was given the whole kit and caboodle when was installed by vortech. The tune that JJ was to do was for the addition of long tube headers and offroad set up that Keith didn't have when vortech did the install. If I'm wrong then I'm sure that either Keith or JJ will chime in

He installed shorty headers, but close enough.

 

[Heuristic]

What confuses me is the OP said he saw that the tuner sent him the same tune again in order to see if he could catch him in a lie or something, but OP used the canned Vortech tune instead correct?

Whybdoesbthis JJ guy keep saying OPs car is running fine on the same tune OP received from JJ when OP states that wasn't the tune he installed because he recognized the "revised" tune was in fact the tune his car ran shitty with?

Ya, this confused me as well :shrug:

 

[2sticks]

Subscribed!

 

[Poppacapp]

What confuses me is the OP said he saw that the tuner sent him the same tune again in order to see if he could catch him in a lie or something, but OP used the canned Vortech tune instead correct?

Whybdoesbthis JJ guy keep saying OPs car is running fine on the same tune OP received from JJ when OP states that wasn't the tune he installed because he recognized the "revised" tune was in fact the tune his car ran shitty with?

Thats what I thought OP had mentioned too... that he suspected the tune sent to him was the same one.. so he put the Vortech tune on the car and it ran perfectly.

 

[CobRoush-00]

What confuses me is the OP said he saw that the tuner sent him the same tune again in order to see if he could catch him in a lie or something, but OP used the canned Vortech tune instead correct?

Whybdoesbthis JJ guy keep saying OPs car is running fine on the same tune OP received from JJ when OP states that wasn't the tune he installed because he recognized the "revised" tune was in fact the tune his car ran shitty with?

At some point I remember reading that philly got a tune directly from vortech and put it on the car and all the problems went away...:shrug:

Ya, this confused me as well :shrug:

Thats what I thought OP had mentioned too... that he suspected the tune sent to him was the same one.. so he put the Vortech tune on the car and it ran perfectly.

I am glad that you guys picked that up as well. I was just surprised Keith never rectified that point when JJ kept saying the car was running "flawless" on his tune. I hope they both get the problem resolved today because based on other people's statement, they seem to be both good guys.

 

[C6GS]

I am glad that you guys picked that up as well. I was just surprised Keith never rectified that point when JJ kept saying the car was running "flawless" on his tune. I hope they both get the problem resolved today because based on other people's statement, they seem to be both good guys.

Thats how I understood all this too. He knew the new tune was the same as what was on the car, and loaded the canned tune from vortech instead. Now the car runs right on the vortech tune, not JJ's tune. Thats the key here, and I think the tuner needs to be shown this. And before a refund is given, he needs to have the opportunity to make it right, on his dime not the car owner's. Once the car runs right, then just move on. Or if he just cant get the car tuned right, then refund the money. If you cant provide a service, its not the purchasers obligation to pay for you to learn or troubleshoot your own issues. Period.

 

[hcracerx]

I was in SC for Mustang Week with OP. He was pretty upset that he was not able to run his car at Darlington. He skipped the entire day because of it. The OP is no armchair quarterback...he knows his stuff, and is being pretty humble here. The exact car in question won a very prestigious award at the Mustang Week awards ceremony on Saturday. It was hand selected to win out of every car (every year, every model) at the event. We all want to see the situation resolved and everyone to walk away happy, or at least satisfied.

 

[Too40gawlf]

I am glad that you guys picked that up as well. I was just surprised Keith never rectified that point when JJ kept saying the car was running "flawless" on his tune. I hope they both get the problem resolved today because based on other people's statement, they seem to be both good guys.

Right on.

The whole thing could be chalked up as just a mistake on the tuner's part and poor comms. between Keith and the tuer except for this whole situation with the 'replacement' tune. Someone is flat out lying and it sure doesnt look like Keith. A good faith mistake can be forgiven and gotten over, but an outright violation of integrity can not. Until JJ explains this the onus is on him. If a fireman puts out 10,000 fires, but commits one arson, he's still a scumbag.

 

[PhillyLS1]

I talked to JJ a few minutes ago. I am taking my car back to him to allow him to rectify the situation. I'm doing this on the advice of legal counsel, other tuners in the community, the commentary from the readers on this forum, the vendors on this site and my sponsors.

I will post the results when I get the car back. I hung up the phone with a positive attitude and JJ was accommodating to my schedule.

I do this in hope this action reflects positively upon me as trying to sort things out AND JJ for getting the car to make power.

 

[TBCobra]

Glad to hear things are working out. Let us know how the car is when you get it back.

 

[me32]

Personally, while I can see how a refund is justified, I would have not gone apeshit and posted negative reviews on multiple sites this soon. It's clear that both parties had agendas and were trying to meet schedules. The tuner ran into a few unexpected hiccups while in possession of the car. It seems the tuner was just as confused as the OP and was willing to spend time on getting it right, free of charge. Up until now, tuner seemed to be a reputable, stand up guy with little to no negative feedback. I'm sure he didn't get that way by pissing people off and handing over un-driveable cars. Sure...perhaps he should have refused the work, but my gut tells me he wanted to make you happy by cramming it in. As a successful tuner I highly doubt he was concerned about not being able to do the task he was paid to do, its not like he was trying to do the impossible.

If it were me, I would have let the dust settle and then picked up the phone, or met face-to-face, and discussed my concerns and requested a refund one last time. Give the guy a little slack before resorting to this. The damage done by posts like this should be reserved for people like Ironhand or flat out thieves who's intent was to do harm from the get go. This was only $400 and about a guy who was begging for a shot to make it right.

That's my $.02.

Hope this gets resolved.

Some of you guys really don't understand the power of the message boards. As you can see if you read the whole thread is that the op problem was not getting fixed. Now that he posted it on the forums things are moving forward and looks like they may come to an agreed fix. Shops sometimes tend to actually wanna fix a problem when it hits main stream because it could an will effect future business.

 

[Too40gawlf]

I talked to JJ a few minutes ago. I am taking my car back to him to allow him to rectify the situation. I'm doing this on the advice of legal counsel, other tuners in the community, the commentary from the readers on this forum, the vendors on this site and my sponsors.

I will post the results when I get the car back. I hung up the phone with a positive attitude and JJ was accommodating to my schedule.

I do this in hope this action reflects positively upon me as trying to sort things out AND JJ for getting the car to make power.

Right on.

Hope your car gets squared away soon.

 

[beefcake]

I talked to JJ a few minutes ago. I am taking my car back to him to allow him to rectify the situation. I'm doing this on the advice of legal counsel, other tuners in the community, the commentary from the readers on this forum, the vendors on this site and my sponsors.

I will post the results when I get the car back. I hung up the phone with a positive attitude and JJ was accommodating to my schedule.

I do this in hope this action reflects positively upon me as trying to sort things out AND JJ for getting the car to make power.

:rockon:

Some of you guys really don't understand the power of the message boards. As you can see if you read the whole thread is that the op problem was not getting fixed. Now that he posted it on the forums things are moving forward and looks like they may come to an agreed fix. Shops sometimes tend to actually wanna fix a problem when it hits main stream because it could an will effect future business.

I think sometimes people jump the gun though in some situations, and in some, there are always 2 sides.

 

[momstmg]

Well if jj was upfront and honest about the situation through out, it wouldn't have come to the forums.

 

[JJ 10.88 Coyote]

I talked to JJ a few minutes ago. I am taking my car back to him to allow him to rectify the situation. I'm doing this on the advice of legal counsel, other tuners in the community, the commentary from the readers on this forum, the vendors on this site and my sponsors.

I will post the results when I get the car back. I hung up the phone with a positive attitude and JJ was accommodating to my schedule.

I do this in hope this action reflects positively upon me as trying to sort things out AND JJ for getting the car to make power.

It was good talking to you today.

I must say however that the very last part of your signature does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling and it got me to thinking.

JJ @ Woodbine Motorsports is a theif. PM me for more info,

I can deal with you airing out your grievances here and on other forums but I'm honestly not cool with being called a thief.

I'm sitting here trying to figure out what to do and honestly I was ok with everything you said before, from the

JJ doesn't own a shop. He works out of his home garage

(which is untrue as its a full service shop with 4 lifts and a dyno that just happens to be located where I live) and then this

He Lies and tries to trick customers

.....

Then after re reading this thread something caught my eye... The following from you;

I broke down at my bank. I had to have my car towed to my house.

I babied the car down to Mustang Week. It got 19mpg average when I usually got 24-26mpg. I didn't want to put another tune in the car in the case the car bricked.

So I remember you saying it broke down but what was the fix? Afterwards you took it all the way down to MW and it didn't break down again? Your admittedly on my tune at MW but it didn't break down again? Sorry but that just doesn't add up. You don't just break down where it wont start and run, don't find anything wrong and then be able to drive it hundreds of miles with it not breaking down again. I hate going back to this but I feel a mechanical issue was resolved but never revealed to either myself or in this story of events. Also if I were in your shoes and had to pay for a tow bill I would have damn well expected to be reimbursed but you never mentioned that nor did you ever talk about it here in this thread. Something doesn't add up IMHO.

I respectfully rescind my offer to look at your car again because I feel that no matter what I do I wont be able to satisfy you and honestly I don't appreciate being called a thief. I have built my business over the last 10 years by being honest and straightforward with my customers and my reputation as seen by the several positive posts in this thread is something I have worked hard to earn so if someone things I'm a thief then I would rather not do business with them or deal with them any longer.

Lastly for those who thought I was untruthful about sending him the vortech tune when I knew it was my tune I did so because I knew I was being played. I knew that the phonecall would be "hey the car runs great with the vortech tune, you owe me my money back" when in fact the story I feel that's not being told is that after the car was towed back to his house(if in fact it was towed considering he never asked for me to repay him for towing) he found the mechanical problem that caused the issues, the check engine light, the stalling and the subsequent break down but was already too far involved with blaming my tune that he didn't say anything. Again you just don't break down with a bad tune and then magically drive the car hundreds of miles. (lets not forget Keith installed his own headers and midpipes before bringing the car to me, so there was work done to the car and if the steering shaft was left loose, which we fixed at no charge, then whos to say something else wasn't loose or caused these issues.

Sorry Keith but the "thief" comment you made spoke more to me then hundreds of paragraphs ever could and its the one thing that you can say to a reputable shop owner to make him feel differently about the customer and in that case the reputable shop owner is me and your the one calling me a thief.

I wish nothing but the best for you and hold no ill will towards you.

Please have Nikki call me with the original CC number and I will refund 1/2 of the tuning fee.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, input and consideration. If anyone who participates on the other forums that this was posted on could post a link to this thread on the thread on those forums I would appreciate it as I don't have the time to find/reply all of this over there. Thank you.

JJ@WMS

 

[Lone Star]

Had a guy text me this morning, concerned with all this, because he planned on getting his supercharged fox tuned by JJ next month, and wondered what to do. I told him that he should still have JJ do the tune and that this issue will get resolved.

Everyone is entitled to mistakes as nobody is perfect, and should also be allowed to rectify them as well. Glad to see Keith & JJ are going to work this out.

 

[boduke0220]

what a charlie foxtrot