2.3L Turbo the most interesting new offering?

[blackvette101]

First to clarify I said similar mods. I had a 67mm on my car. I used the FP black as a reference in size. And a stock frame fp black is just to say hey I fit this into this.

Secondly
Most dont have to drop 10 k to reach goals. I can honestly say regardless of what we do in the USA in europe where this car will be the biggest deal is where the R&D will shine.

To get 500 rwhp out of a base 5.0 right now is more than a couple grand as well. Blower, exhaust, maybe cams and a tune. Still talking 6 or 7 grand.. and lets talk safely reaching those numbers.

I think we are under estimating the potential of the aftermarket crowd surrounding this platform. Remember its world wide now..

Ya it will have a big aftermarket but unfortunately it seems like it will go the way of all the other ecoboost engines. Where the majority of people modding them never get past bolt ons or modified stock turbo's. A few people will rig stuff up to pass what most do I just see that ford isn't really setting up a mod friendly engine. I could be wrong but going off the details already given i'd be surprised if over 400 crank hp was doable cheaply.

As far as building the motor and adding some kind of secondary auxiliary fuel system that can easily top 10k not to mention all the required airflow upgrades pre/post both sides of the compressor. You can get into GT + blower price range very quickly.

 

[kingnut]

i find AC seats in a mustang very interesting.. Balls get sweaty just before the launch

Are they actually offering cooled seats? That would be awesome.

 

[trolls56]

Are they actually offering cooled seats? That would be awesome.

all the pics of the interior with my ford touch show heated and cooled seats.

 

[Fenixfire]

I see alot of v6 buyers opting for the 2.3.....I think it will sell well. I bet the new 5.0 will be capable of 500 whp with basic bolt ons tho.

 

[IUP99snake]

I think it will form it's own cult following which will be much larger than the 6cyl following but not as big as the V8 following. There will be an aftermarket for it in due time. You just watch...

I really hope the aftermarket embraces this motor. I'm a V8 fan all the way but I want to see some variety in fast mustangs.

 

[SID297]

You forgot about a HFPF that doesn't exist to fuel that system.

I believe a company had a higher volume version on display at PRI.

 

[ExTurbo]

if its anything like the 2.0 it'll have that integrated exhaust manifold which is crazy, however i see aftermarket heads with a tubular manifold and a turbo upgrade easily possible. however obviously at that point one could just get a 5.0 and call it a day. There are people out there that simply prefer a smaller turbocharged motor, so you can bet the aftermarket will have a field day with 4 cylinder mustangs. i can see 400whp turbo 4's surprising a lot of GT owners on the stock turbo. downpipe, CAI, tune, intake manifold (maybe?), hard pipes, wastegate, boost controller, big front mount intercooler, some meth you could easily get there.

 

[SID297]

The integrated exhaust manifold isn't really a bad thing. All you need is a simple elbow (cast perhaps, with an integrated waste gate) to swap to different turbos.

 

[heatsoaked12]

I don't think i could ever accept the 4 cyl sound out of a stang. It will probably require premium fuel

 

[THE_EVIL_TW1N]

I bet the new 5.0 will be capable of 500 whp with basic bolt ons tho.

As much as I'd love it to, I seriously doubt it. That's probably a debate better suited for the 5.0 engine thread.

 

[blackvette101]

I don't think i could ever accept the 4 cyl sound out of a stang. It will probably require premium fuel

They already announced it will take 87. But if people can't afford the extra 4 bucks a tank for premium they probably shouldn't buy a sports car.

 

[NametoShowOther]

They already announced it will take 87. But if people can't afford the extra 4 bucks a tank for premium they probably shouldn't buy a sports car.

Premium fuel is good, cars that need it are even better, regular fuel is for minivans

 

[Voltwings]

I find that very hard to believe... the (gen1) Genesis turbo and GTI are both turbo tuned to about 210 hp or so from the factory and accept 87 octane. Both of these cars only run 10-12 psi however, where as your Subaru's and mazda's tuned to ~265 hp or so are making 13-15 psi and require 93. Now, different engines / turbos, the "boost" argument is obviously very subjective. My point however, is that for this thing to make 300+ horsepower on 87 octane is going to require one of two things: a VERY well breathing motor, or a relatively larger turbo than other offerings.

The mitsubishi evo X makes 305 horsepower stock from a turbo that flows like 45 lbs/min from the factory, which is an incredible factory turbo. However, to compensate for the lag, the car has 4.55 gears stock... Ford is going to have a real hard time meeting power AND mileage expectations on 87, unless its running "87*" with a disclaimer that you'll be down on power running that octane.

 

[blackvette101]

I find that very hard to believe... the (gen1) Genesis turbo and GTI are both turbo tuned to about 210 hp or so from the factory and accept 87 octane. Both of these cars only run 10-12 psi however, where as your Subaru's and mazda's tuned to ~265 hp or so are making 13-15 psi and require 93. Now, different engines / turbos, the "boost" argument is obviously very subjective. My point however, is that for this thing to make 300+ horsepower on 87 octane is going to require one of two things: a VERY well breathing motor, or a relatively larger turbo than other offerings.

The mitsubishi evo X makes 305 horsepower stock from a turbo that flows like 45 lbs/min from the factory, which is an incredible factory turbo. However, to compensate for the lag, the car has 4.55 gears stock... Ford is going to have a real hard time meeting power AND mileage expectations on 87, unless its running "87*" with a disclaimer that you'll be down on power running that octane.

Its the direct injection. The car is running very low compression for a direct injected 4 cylinder that requires 91. The fiesta ST requires premium but comes with 11:1 cr. The focus ST and Ecoboost mustang will take regular because of the low CR. As of the current info it says 87 minimum but 91 recommended just like on the Focus ST. So yeah I would venture to guess if you put 87 in it you will lose some hp.

Evo, Subaru, Gen1 genesis are all not direct injected so they really serve no purpose in this discussion since their knock limits are much lower then a DI engine.

Realistically you can hit 300 hp with about 25lb/min of airflow on a really well designed DI motor. On my old cobalt SS turbo we were seeing just over 10whp per LB/min of airflow and that's with 9.2:1 CR. The rumor is a GT22 which flows 28lb/min I don't see why Ford couldn't hit their targeted goals with 28lb/min. My worry is that the headroom for aftermarket mods with this turbo may max out around 350 crank hp. maybe even less.

Ford announced 3.31 gears stock and 3.55 with the performance pack. And the domestic car buyer is going to despise lag. So it only makes sense that the car has a very small and torquey turbo.

 

[Voltwings]

Its the direct injection. The car is running very low compression for a direct injected 4 cylinder that requires 91. The fiesta ST requires premium but comes with 11:1 cr. The focus ST and Ecoboost mustang will take regular because of the low CR. As of the current info it says 87 minimum but 91 recommended just like on the Focus ST. So yeah I would venture to guess if you put 87 in it you will lose some hp.

Evo, Subaru, Gen1 genesis are all not direct injected so they really serve no purpose in this discussion since their knock limits are much lower then a DI engine.

Realistically you can hit 300 hp with about 25lb/min of airflow on a really well designed DI motor. On my old cobalt SS turbo we were seeing just over 10whp per LB/min of airflow and that's with 9.2:1 CR. The rumor is a GT22 which flows 28lb/min I don't see why Ford couldn't hit their targeted goals with 28lb/min. My worry is that the headroom for aftermarket mods with this turbo may max out around 350 crank hp. maybe even less.

Ford announced 3.31 gears stock and 3.55 with the performance pack. And the domestic car buyer is going to despise lag. So it only makes sense that the car has a very small and torquey turbo.

The GTI is DI, as well as the mazdaspeed3, granted the GTI's k03 probably equates to its poor performance. My mazda had a 9.5:1 CR, which paired with its single scroll K04 is why it often fell short of the SS's bench marks on 93 alone. However, throw some e85 in either of those bad boys and i've seen (and tuned) several to 340-360 whp, so i doubt the mustang will be limited to 350 crank. Maybe on airflow from the turbo alone, but keep in mind things like cam advance / retard, as well as timing to contribute to power as well.

More back to my point however, while i agree the DI and lower compression ratio will help it get there on 87, i still just have a hard time seeing it... Granted im basing all my argument off my experience with the mazda's DISI 2.3L and turbo (which are certainly not without their disadvantages), so im more than ready to be proven wrong.

 

[peteypab2133]

I don't think i could ever accept the 4 cyl sound out of a stang. It will probably require premium fuel

Right before I sold my evo it sounded pretty nasty for a 4 banger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk3Lpz0vhSs

So it can be done

 

[Voltwings]

the LNF engine GM uses sounds pretty good too, has a real deep growl to it. Turbo 4's in general sound worlds better than NA 4's, but most of it actually comes down to the turbo manifold. Most stock cast manifolds actually sound really good, but the tubular designs make them more ricey. I hated the way my car sounded after i added a tubular manifold, but the gains were hard to argue with.

Sick evo BTW.

 

[Tifosi2003GT]

I just purchased a 2.0l fusion and the power delivery is so smooth. I would opt for the boss version 5.0 in this new platform, but if I was looking for a v6 option, I wouldn't blink an eye and get the 2.3 ecoboost... Ford should have only offered the coyote motor and the ecoboost

 

[blackvette101]

The GTI is DI, as well as the mazdaspeed3, granted the GTI's k03 probably equates to its poor performance. My mazda had a 9.5:1 CR, which paired with its single scroll K04 is why it often fell short of the SS's bench marks on 93 alone. However, throw some e85 in either of those bad boys and i've seen (and tuned) several to 340-360 whp, so i doubt the mustang will be limited to 350 crank. Maybe on airflow from the turbo alone, but keep in mind things like cam advance / retard, as well as timing to contribute to power as well.

More back to my point however, while i agree the DI and lower compression ratio will help it get there on 87, i still just have a hard time seeing it... Granted im basing all my argument off my experience with the mazda's DISI 2.3L and turbo (which are certainly not without their disadvantages), so im more than ready to be proven wrong.

O E85 is a whole different ball game. I was referring to pump gas because E85 you can do a ton with very little airflow. How much does the K04 on the MS3 flow. I saw this but I can't read it

http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=292509

I'm wondering if they do use the GT22 we can make a good guestimate on what power we can get out of the motor depending on how it flows vs the k04.

 

[IUP99snake]

It would be cool if it was a flex fuel car too. I doubt the factory would take advantage of it, but if it is, it will have an ethanol percentage sensor in the fuel system and that will allow tuners to more easily take advantage of E-85 in performance tunes.

Add an E-85 tune on this motor and let er rip!