Making a Murderer - Netflix Series
- Thread starter Blackoyote
- Start date
Please enlighten us then on what were missing. Im curious
Yes, from what I've read there has been a lot left out of the documentary...but from both sides.
None of the excluded evidence changes the fact that there was a LOT of reasonable doubt presented by the defense.
With this being said, I'm not saying I think he is innocent...but I do believe that based on the evidence presented by the prosecution and the botched investigation that was tainted by a heavily motivated agency, he shouldn't have been convicted (based on our judicial system).
None of the excluded evidence changes the fact that there was a LOT of reasonable doubt presented by the defense.
With this being said, I'm not saying I think he is innocent...but I do believe that based on the evidence presented by the prosecution and the botched investigation that was tainted by a heavily motivated agency, he shouldn't have been convicted (based on our judicial system).
Just another off thing that occured was when Brendan Dassey was in trial and questioned about where he got the ideas about what happened in his confession.
He said "books" and then followed up with the book "Kiss the Girls". I thought it was an interesting comment. I intend to at least read the summary of the events in the book in more detail because the Wiki plot outline is rather vague, so I'm saying this with little knowledge of the books plot, but it just seemed weird that we have a 17 year old with a 4th grade reading level suggesting he got his ideas from that particular book.
Was it required reading in school? Not the type of book we would have read in contemporary literature classes I was in, but who knows (****ing Great Expectations). Just curious why he read (or suggested he read) that particular book, and it might be a serious judgement call, but why is a kid like Brendan Dassey who appears to not be a book worm reading James Patterson novels like Kiss The Girls ...if he had instead watched the movie version, I would assume he would have said movies instead of books.
Then I'd also be curious to know if what he suggested occured to Teresa was also what occured in the book. Because if the plot of Kiss The Girls follows some of his guesses on what happened and they coincidentally matched what really occured, then that's very unfortunate because maybe he was just reaching for a murder story he had knowledge of as inspiration for what to say so he could just go home and watch Wrestlemania or something.
Just a sad situation over all. Kids like him who are extremely behidmnd socially, reserved, and lack intelligence are certainly capable of being swayed whether by the officers or by Steven Avery so all in all, involved in the crime or not, I'm empathetic to his involvement at all.
He said "books" and then followed up with the book "Kiss the Girls". I thought it was an interesting comment. I intend to at least read the summary of the events in the book in more detail because the Wiki plot outline is rather vague, so I'm saying this with little knowledge of the books plot, but it just seemed weird that we have a 17 year old with a 4th grade reading level suggesting he got his ideas from that particular book.
Was it required reading in school? Not the type of book we would have read in contemporary literature classes I was in, but who knows (****ing Great Expectations). Just curious why he read (or suggested he read) that particular book, and it might be a serious judgement call, but why is a kid like Brendan Dassey who appears to not be a book worm reading James Patterson novels like Kiss The Girls ...if he had instead watched the movie version, I would assume he would have said movies instead of books.
Then I'd also be curious to know if what he suggested occured to Teresa was also what occured in the book. Because if the plot of Kiss The Girls follows some of his guesses on what happened and they coincidentally matched what really occured, then that's very unfortunate because maybe he was just reaching for a murder story he had knowledge of as inspiration for what to say so he could just go home and watch Wrestlemania or something.
Just a sad situation over all. Kids like him who are extremely behidmnd socially, reserved, and lack intelligence are certainly capable of being swayed whether by the officers or by Steven Avery so all in all, involved in the crime or not, I'm empathetic to his involvement at all.
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finished it the other night. he seems like the perfect guy to frame, from the officers point of view. perfect past. that family is dumb af. all of them. all the things everyone in here is saying about the vile of blood, key appearing during the 4th search, have an incinerator and not using that to burn the body, no DNA ANYWHERE besides on that clean ass bullet, the bullet being found also after multiple searches, everything being clean af yet the RAV4 wasnt wiped clean, the officers (Lenk) timing not lining up at all- his 4.5-5 hour difference... those officers were up to something. that family is disturbing, that is for sure. disturbing enough to kill the lady, probably. i dont think they did it, though. they arent smart enough or quick enough to be able to pull that off in those few days. cleaning all that stuff, deep down in that crack in the garage. c'mon now. it'd take a couple professionals in modern day a good while to clean that up.
the key being planted, vile being tampered with, RAV4 not smashed, and body not put in the incinerator are clear sings, to me, that Avery didn't do it.
dont even get me started on Brendan. Nothing he says is useful. People these days get let off for half of his mental lacking abilities for this shit. **** that.
the key being planted, vile being tampered with, RAV4 not smashed, and body not put in the incinerator are clear sings, to me, that Avery didn't do it.
dont even get me started on Brendan. Nothing he says is useful. People these days get let off for half of his mental lacking abilities for this shit. **** that.
I must say that after watching this series, I believed that Steven and Brandon MIGHT have been framed, but after doing some googling and reading every transcript of Brandon's multiple Interrogations that I could find, I am now convinced that they did murder Teresa Halbach, but I also believe that the Manitowoc County police department tampered with/planted evidence to strengthen their case.
Interesting reads:
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/dassey_confessions_links.html
IMO the footage showing Brandon's interrogations during the Documentary that had me enraged, were taking waaaaaay out of context and selectively pieced back together in a way that put the police corruption spin on the documentary quite nicely. After reading the actual transcripts (above, if they are actually the real ones?!?), you can see what I mean (seems like Brandon never told the same story, often minutes/seconds apart, but you pick up some parts of what most likely happened). I can only imagine how mentally exhausted/frustrated the police must have been after/during those interrogations. There was also a lot of evidence and answers to my questions that the documentary left out that I found enough to formulate a different opinion of the outcome of the trial.
The interrogation transcripts answered:
1)Why Teresa's blood was in the RAV4
2)Why her bones were found in multiple places
3)That Avery's (sweat) DNA was found on the hood release of the RAV4 (Sweat DNA actually on key as well that could have been planted since hers wasn't on the key?!?)
4)Why there was no DNA found in the trailer (She was apparently killed in the garage on the floor which was then cleaned with gasoline, Turpentine, and Bleach)
Interesting reads:
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/dassey_confessions_links.html
IMO the footage showing Brandon's interrogations during the Documentary that had me enraged, were taking waaaaaay out of context and selectively pieced back together in a way that put the police corruption spin on the documentary quite nicely. After reading the actual transcripts (above, if they are actually the real ones?!?), you can see what I mean (seems like Brandon never told the same story, often minutes/seconds apart, but you pick up some parts of what most likely happened). I can only imagine how mentally exhausted/frustrated the police must have been after/during those interrogations. There was also a lot of evidence and answers to my questions that the documentary left out that I found enough to formulate a different opinion of the outcome of the trial.
The interrogation transcripts answered:
1)Why Teresa's blood was in the RAV4
2)Why her bones were found in multiple places
3)That Avery's (sweat) DNA was found on the hood release of the RAV4 (Sweat DNA actually on key as well that could have been planted since hers wasn't on the key?!?)
4)Why there was no DNA found in the trailer (She was apparently killed in the garage on the floor which was then cleaned with gasoline, Turpentine, and Bleach)
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Instead of saying "much is left out", why not tell everyone what exactly was absent?
I'm gonna agree with madscotsman that after reading through the actual interrogation transcripts, it really appears that Steven is guilty and that Brendan was involved.
There's certain aspects of the interoggation that connect many of the dots in a way that simply couldn't result from Brendan just making stuff up.
However, even in their guilt, there's a lot of suspicion in regards to how certain things came to be found, how things were cleaned so well of DNA evidence in what amounts to an absolute impossible mess of objects and concrete cracks that I wouldn't imagine could possibly be accurately and completely cleaned.
And again, someone has some explaining to do regarding the vial of blood.
Unfortunately, while Brendan is in my opinion guilty for his involvment , it's unfortunate that his personality and mental handicap is essentially what allowed him to simply go along with whatever he was told to do. The kid was pressured into everything and while I think he knows right from wrong, he didn't have the mental capacity to do the right thing and go against his uncle.
There's certain aspects of the interoggation that connect many of the dots in a way that simply couldn't result from Brendan just making stuff up.
However, even in their guilt, there's a lot of suspicion in regards to how certain things came to be found, how things were cleaned so well of DNA evidence in what amounts to an absolute impossible mess of objects and concrete cracks that I wouldn't imagine could possibly be accurately and completely cleaned.
And again, someone has some explaining to do regarding the vial of blood.
Unfortunately, while Brendan is in my opinion guilty for his involvment , it's unfortunate that his personality and mental handicap is essentially what allowed him to simply go along with whatever he was told to do. The kid was pressured into everything and while I think he knows right from wrong, he didn't have the mental capacity to do the right thing and go against his uncle.
There is a great deal that points to him killing the female photographer but nothing able to stand up in a court of law w/o other evidence raising reasonable doubt.
Over 700 hours of original documented information, of course things had to be left out to make a 10 hour documentary but regardless, even the things that I have read still leaves a lot to be questioned. They focused on the things that seemed to matter most.
The biggest thing was an actual motive. Then the fact that the crime scene lacked so much evidence for such a heinous crime. Among all the weird things that only contained one persons DNA...
The biggest thing was an actual motive. Then the fact that the crime scene lacked so much evidence for such a heinous crime. Among all the weird things that only contained one persons DNA...
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this... from this incest ridden hick town family, a crime like this... how that can even seem possible to some of you just blows my mind. especially with WireEaters bolded comment. that is the beauty of this documentary.
Absolutely...I see a lot of people saying the fact that he had actual bondage handcuffs and chains as described by Brendan Dassey implicates his guilt. However this was left out because much like everything else, there wasn't so much as a bit of trace DNA on the the restraints that were supposedly used.
I'll tell you what I think may have been a motive. Teresa's a relatively attractive female in the area. Steven's a bit of a creepy, backwoods (perverted?) guy who has some deeper mental issues that have been acknowledged from him burning a cat alive in the past.
I don't necessarily think there needs to be any complex, emotional motive to why he raped and ultimately killed her than wanting **** her, not being able to control his inhibitions, and ultimately needing to dispose of a body of a girl he raped.
Bringing Brendan into it was simply, in my opinion, the result of Steven himself being an inbred idiot who wanted to show off to an even less intelligent idiot. Frankly, there's so much left I don't understand on things that don't add up in the investigation, but for as dumb as they are, they must have done something "right" in cleaning up and during the murder to allow for such little evidence to exist DNA wise...that still just seems odd.
Anyways, I'm starting to come to the conclusion were under estimating Steven's and to some degree Brendans intelligence. They're dumber than a box of rocks, but smarter than were giving them credit for.
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The motives Brendan gave were
-Steven was mad because his girlfriend was in jail and he was alone
-Steven wanted to go back to jail because he couldn't handle the outside world
-Steven wanted to help Brendan get laid
At one point Brendan says they planned it?!?
Steven called her a few times blocking his phone number, she was creeped out because the last time she was there to take pictures of another car, he answered the trailer door in a towel. She told her boss she didn't want to go back there. Steve then got her back out to his place by using his sister's name as the customer, and that was the last time she was seen alive...
Where is this from? Did i miss this some time during the 10 hours i binged?
Its all about money, always is. County couldn't afford even 1/10th of that total damage amount so they royally ****ed this guy over and it really wasn't hard to do. As sick as the family may be, the only crime Avery was guilty of was being stupid enough to stay in that extremely corrupt, hateful town.
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I thought Brendan was just guessing on those motives because I recall the police in the transcripts asking why he Brendan thought that and he said something on the lines of he was guessing. That's why I think Steven was just being a stalkerish creeper that ultimately decided to rape her and kill her.
It's hard to get into their heads, but surely if Steven was that set in going back to jail, even he would know murder wasn't necessary to do so and would be one step too far for just going back to jail...so I feel in my opinion there must have been some other external desire to commit the crime outside of just going to jail, especially knowing he was on the cusp of receiving several million in a settlement.
It's hard to get into their heads, but surely if Steven was that set in going back to jail, even he would know murder wasn't necessary to do so and would be one step too far for just going back to jail...so I feel in my opinion there must have been some other external desire to commit the crime outside of just going to jail, especially knowing he was on the cusp of receiving several million in a settlement.
I believe the mention of the *67 was in one of the full interrogation transcripts available online, but I don't recall exactly where but I remember reading that too. Steven apparently called *67 twice and then the last call to her he didn't use *67...I don't recall the details.
What makes you so quick to believe a simpleton? The kid himself didn't even know what is meant by something being inconsistent and one doesn't need to be a genius to know what it means. The police should be disgusted over how they manipulated a kid who has the brain of an elementary student.
The guy didn't have a logical motive. Free after being incarcerated for 18 years and soon to receive a windfall of money and he is going to throw it all away? Wasn't his girlfriend being released from jail soon? The guy knows how to prevent blood from covering the walls of his bedroom but doesn't know how to do the same thing in the RAV4? Being a supposed con in jail for 18 years will teach you things yet he knew how to cover up the more difficult matters yet not the easier ones?
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