Epa seeks to prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars

[SID297]

As opposed to the hundreds of thousands of others that do offer such services?

They couldve gone after business with the whole "off road use only" clause and dont, so they wont now.

Sure, I thought about doing just that.

I would love to create a laptop program that can utilize the OBDII port and the only physical thing you would buy is a OBDII to USB cable (from Amazon), the rest is done strictly on the program itself. Id model it directly after ECMlink, which is pretty much stand-alone that utilizes the stock ECU as its bitch. Its fully fledged logging and tuning software, not these pick and choose PID's like SCT/Diablow/Etc through some junk handheld (or now your cell phone), and you can tune every parameter the ECU can change, from timing to using your CEL as a knock indicator to how long it takes your cabin lights to timeoff once your door closes.

The only thing stopping me (and others), is the fact Hyundai has made these ECU's extremely finnicky to communicate with and get any useable information through the OBDII port or be able to flash tunes through it. The two tune makers require the ECU to be in their possession to flash direct to the ECU using a special port that is proprietary (for obvious reasons). That, and im no programmer, so I have that going against me lol.

So if I was successful, im simply selling a program that lets you communicate with the ECU. What you do with it, is on you. I'm not selling hardware, its simply software. The onus is on you to use it in accordance with the laws and regulations. Id go as far as to recommend its not for use on vehicles driven in the CONUS, because who knows, I could sell a tuning program to someone in TX who is using it on his car that is in Mexico.

It's tough to make money just selling software.

 

[rotor_powerd]

Its ALREADY a federal offense to pull cats, yet it stops nobody who wants to do it from doing it.

Companies already sell parts that blatantly delete these things, to be used on cars that obviously are used on-road. The whole "Off road only" will just change into something else, like "We are not responsible for the end-use of this product and do not recommend it being installed in any way, shape or form onto a vehicle that will be driven on or off road". Boom, done.



For my Genesis, ill send my spare PCM to Korea to have it reflashed, just like they do now through SFR or BTR, the only two vendors who currently offer tuning services into the ECU. There's a third, that uses a flash module, and they are also from Korea. What, you think the EPA is going to be able to prevent these companies from selling here?

If it gets really stupid, then ill just resort to modding older cars that they cant stop the used market from doing anything. Ill go back to DSM's or grab a cheap Fox/SN95 for my modding fix. What, theyre gonna go on every forum and ban the sale of said parts that have already been made? They cant stop me from buying ECMlink from someone and tuning the **** out of a GSX.

The EPA will not have the capability to go after every tuning company out there. Theres more than just SCT and Diablow. What about things like Cobb, who make simple access ports that allow people to produce their own tunes and flash? They are only providing a means in which end users can access their PCM, and unless the manufacturer cockblocks them (like Dodge has done I believe to some tuning solutions like that), good luck.

Edge and H&S were fined $500,000 and $96,000,000 respectively for making devices for "off road use only." The EPA will reach out and take whatever they can get. If this gets passed they will have unbelievable reach. Keep your head in the sand and act like this doesn't matter.

 

[SID297]

You just described HPTuners mostly. A good friend of mine works over there and he can whip up a PCM interface in his office in no time lol

As always, there'll be a few who can come up with their own work around. It still leaves the great majority out in the cold.

 

[SID297]

Its ALREADY a federal offense to pull cats, yet it stops nobody who wants to do it from doing it.

Companies already sell parts that blatantly delete these things, to be used on cars that obviously are used on-road. The whole "Off road only" will just change into something else, like "We are not responsible for the end-use of this product and do not recommend it being installed in any way, shape or form onto a vehicle that will be driven on or off road". Boom, done.

The old trick of selling brass knuckles as a paper weight won't fly with the Feds. A statement will not shield a company from prosecution.

For my Genesis, ill send my spare PCM to Korea to have it reflashed, just like they do now through SFR or BTR, the only two vendors who currently offer tuning services into the ECU. There's a third, that uses a flash module, and they are also from Korea. What, you think the EPA is going to be able to prevent these companies from selling here?

If it gets really stupid, then ill just resort to modding older cars that they cant stop the used market from doing anything. Ill go back to DSM's or grab a cheap Fox/SN95 for my modding fix. What, theyre gonna go on every forum and ban the sale of said parts that have already been made? They cant stop me from buying ECMlink from someone and tuning the **** out of a GSX.

What you're describing is the vibrant aftermarket industry essentially turning into a Mad Max like wasteland. Sure you (and your modding hobby) can survive in it, but is that really where you want to live?

The EPA will not have the capability to go after every tuning company out there. Theres more than just SCT and Diablow. What about things like Cobb, who make simple access ports that allow people to produce their own tunes and flash? They are only providing a means in which end users can access their PCM, and unless the manufacturer cockblocks them (like Dodge has done I believe to some tuning solutions like that), good luck.

The Federal Government has practically unlimited resources. The can 100% annihilate all the majors if they want. The sad thing is all they'll have to do is cripple a few companies and the rest will fall in line. Nearly every automotive aftermarket company is privately owned and the majority are family businesses. You think the Art Whipple, Jim Bell, Chris Kook, John Urist, etc. want to risk/waste everything they've ever made fighting an ultimately losing battle against the Feds? You think GM and Ford wouldn't adopt ECM encryption methods if the Feds 'recommended' they should?

 

[tones_RS3]

How would you like to be at Kenne Bell, Vortech or Roush when the cease and desist selling "offroad vehicle" supercharger kits letter come in? How about the EPA using one of the Federal law enforcement agencies to throw a couple tuners in jail to make their point? Or pick a couple of the more popular hotrod shops across the nation and litigate them into oblivion. They don't have to go after everyone to make it pretty much impossible to buy parts or have a shop work on your car for the average Joe.

I was thinking that! Man,...............that's horrible.
But, doesn't Roush and Whipple have 50 state CARB approved superchargers? Or, are they going after that too because of the tuning on the PCM? I'm assuming since the superchargers are CARB compliant, they are okay as long as they don't run catless?

 

[2001sleeper]

Companies spend a lot of time and money to become a profitable entity. They are not going to risk EPA fines just to fight the good fight. You are delusional to think that there won't be an impact.

In regards to sending your computer to North Korea for tuning I would assume that your car is not highly modified if you can just slap a factory computer in it and have it run good enough to pas an emissions test.

 

[_Snake_]

Enough shops get shut down every year to have people on edge already. More so in the diesel performance side of things than gas, but still. H&S is a shadow company now, SCT no longer sells "offroad" tuners officially, many big name tuners and shops no longer "offer" delete/offroad tunes either. Its all word of mouth, and newcomers are still gun-shy to even get into the industry.

Truth

.

 

[Weather Man]

As always, there'll be a few who can come up with their own work around. It still leaves the great majority out in the cold.

The super rich will find the "guy" and all of us smo's get to pound sand. I hope some heavy hitters have some juice they can apply.

 

[Weather Man]

I was thinking that! Man,...............that's horrible.
But, doesn't Roush and Whipple have 50 state CARB approved superchargers? Or, are they going after that too because of the tuning on the PCM? I'm assuming since the superchargers are CARB compliant, they are okay as long as they don't run catless?

It depends how they interpret "modify".

 

[Blkkbgt]

So wtf can we as car enthusiasts do to fight the epa besides sign a bunch petitions?

 

[SID297]

So wtf can we as car enthusiasts do to fight the epa besides sign a bunch petitions?

Join SEMA and support SAN.

 

[DHG1078]

I was thinking that! Man,...............that's horrible.
But, doesn't Roush and Whipple have 50 state CARB approved superchargers? Or, are they going after that too because of the tuning on the PCM? I'm assuming since the superchargers are CARB compliant, they are okay as long as they don't run catless?

CARB approved mods should still be legal. Those products have gone through the necessary testing and fees to meet regulations.

 

[DHG1078]

So wtf can we as car enthusiasts do to fight the epa besides sign a bunch petitions?

Join SEMA and support SAN.

If enough people express this concern to their respective government representatives, it would get them at least thinking about it since they want re-elected. It takes a significant amount of mail to do it though.

 

[Deceptive]

CARB approved mods should still be legal. Those products have gone through the necessary testing and fees to meet regulations.

Should be, but when has agencies like the EPA followed the law instead of interpreting it to make criminals out of law abiding citizens?

 

[2001sleeper]

If signing petitions isn't enough, what about guns?
Can't some of you SVTers use your guns to stop this government oppression?

Couldn't resist. Hahahaha

 

[NasteeNate]

118K Signatures signed on the official petition. I want to do more.

 

[Sinister04L]

What you're describing is the vibrant aftermarket industry essentially turning into a Mad Max like wasteland. Sure you (and your modding hobby) can survive in it, but is that really where you want to live?

Exactly my thoughts. There are always ways for some people to get around regulations but for the vast majority of people it would be a big problem. It's also naive to think that the government would stop there if they were able to pull off something like this.

 

[tones_RS3]

CARB approved mods should still be legal. Those products have gone through the necessary testing and fees to meet regulations.

Wicked sucks,....but at least we'll have that! Better than nothing I guess. I hope this does not pass.

 

[SID297]

From the latest SEMA Newsletter:

By SEMA Washington, D.C., Staff

EPA Proposed Regulation:

Under the EPA proposed regulation, certified motor vehicles and engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition. Violators would be subject to the fines and penalties included in the tampering prohibitions.

SEMA’s Understanding of Proposal as Confirmed by the EPA:

SEMA representatives met with EPA officials on January 20, 2016 to confirm the association’s understanding of the proposed regulation. The EPA officials confirmed that the regulation would make it illegal to convert a certified motor vehicle into a vehicle to be used solely for competition. The EPA officials claimed that this had always been their interpretation of the Clean Air Act.

Myth: This proposal is not changing current law.

Congress never intended the Clean Air Act to be interpreted as giving the EPA the authority to regulate vehicles used solely for competition, regardless of whether the vehicles were once emissions-certified road vehicles. Once a vehicle is taken out of use as a road vehicle and dedicated solely to racing, it is beyond the laws which apply to road vehicles. The EPA and SEMA fundamentally disagree on this point. SEMA has cited the statutory text, legislative history, and congressional intent of the Clean Air Act, as well as 46 years of history whereby vehicles have been converted from certified road status to status as race vehicles without any objection from EPA.

Myth: The EPA is merely clarifying the law as it relates to motor vehicles and nonroad vehicles, and its proposal only affects vehicles driven on the streets.

The EPA is adding new language to the regulations. This new language states that a motor vehicle can never be modified, even if it is used solely for competition and never again used on public roads. The EPA is seeking to prohibit modifications affecting any emissions-related component, such as engines, engine control modules, intakes, exhaust systems, etc.

Myth: The EPA’s proposal only affects medium- and heavy-duty vehicles.

The EPA inserted the problematic language into a rulemaking that focuses on medium- and heavy-duty vehicles, however, the rulemaking also includes a section entitled “Miscellaneous EPA Amendments.” The language affecting “vehicles used solely for competition” (i.e., racecars) was a “miscellaneous EPA amendment” and would, in fact, affect all light-duty vehicles, not just trucks.

Myth: SEMA is overreacting, this will never get passed.

The EPA has issued a proposed regulation. Regulations are issued by federal agencies and not voted on by elected representatives. If the language becomes final (EPA is expected to issue a final regulation in July), then it will have the force of law and can only be challenged in federal court or overturned by Congress.

Myth: The EPA could not enforce this proposal.

The proposal would give the EPA the power to enforce against any vehicle owner that converts his or her emissions-controlled motor vehicle into a vehicle to be used solely for competition. Whether or not the EPA chooses to enforce, it would be illegal for an individual to convert their motor vehicle. Additionally, the EPA has stated that it will enforce against aftermarket companies that sell parts for use on the converted vehicles, which will limit racers’ access to parts.

Myth: The EPA’s proposal would not affect vehicles that have already been converted into racecars.

It is the EPA’s position that they will be able to enforce against vehicles that have already been converted in the past. While the EPA has indicated that it does not currently plan on enforcing against individuals, it does plan on going after the companies supplying parts for vehicles that have already been converted. So, if you have a racecar that began life as a street car, this regulation would affect your access to parts, and leave you open to enforcement if the agency so chooses.

Fact: The EPA’s proposal would not affect racecars with original emissions controls.

The EPA notes that race vehicles with original, unmodified emission controls, including the original engine configuration, engine control module, intake and exhaust components, do not violate the law. The issue is that very few competition race vehicles have been left unmodified and in a certified configuration.

Fact: The EPA’s proposal would not affect purpose-built racecars, such as sprint cars, open-wheel dragsters and the cars that currently compete in NASCAR.

The EPA agrees that vehicles that were originally manufactured for racing are excluded from regulation under the Clean Air Act. However, the EPA believes this exclusion extends only to vehicles that were never certified for on-road use or issued a VIN.

Fact: The EPA’s proposal will not affect the exemption for “nonroad vehicles,” such as dirt bikes, ATVs, snowmobiles and boats used solely for competition.

The EPA has indicated that it will continue to allow “nonroad vehicles” (dirt bikes, ATVs, snowmobiles, boats) to be exempted from certain emissions regulations if they are used solely for competition. Distinct from its stance on motor vehicles, however, the EPA’s current position on nonroad vehicles allows emissions-certified nonroad vehicles to be converted into vehicles used solely for competition.

Get the Facts for Yourself:

Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles--Phase 2, 80 Fed. Reg. 40,138 (July 13, 2015), docket no. EPA–HQ–OAR–2014–0827:

Please use the search function to locate this provision within the proposed regulation:
PART 86--CONTROL OF EMISSIONS FROM NEW AND IN-USE HIGHWAY VEHICLES AND ENGINES
***
Subpart S--General Compliance Provisions for Control of Air Pollution From New and In-Use Light-Duty Vehicles, Light-Duty Trucks, and Heavy-Duty Vehicles
***
67. Section 86.1854-12 is amended by adding paragraph (b)(5) to read as follows:

§ 86.1854-12 Prohibited acts.

* * * * *
(b) * * *
(5) Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines; anyone modifying a certified motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine for any reason is subject to the tampering and defeat device prohibitions of paragraph (a)(3) of this section and 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3).

To review SEMA’s comments to the EPA proposal, go to: http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=EPA-HQ-OAR-2014-0827-146

 

[Josie Wales]

Thank you Sid - well done.

People need to know that their government, under the auspices of "climate change," have no quorum with disrupting American lives.