Epa seeks to prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars

[SonicDTR]

Enough shops get shut down every year to have people on edge already. More so in the diesel performance side of things than gas, but still. H&S is a shadow company now, SCT no longer sells "offroad" tuners officially, many big name tuners and shops no longer "offer" delete/offroad tunes either. Its all word of mouth, and newcomers are still gun-shy to even get into the industry.

 

[jbs$]

Funny? no. I want a small federal government which stays out American's lives. You should clarify your position before we move forward. Do you agree with Obama and the executive branch action? You think we should just ignore it - no big deal to us - LET IT PASS for the betterment of the US Citizen?? What "current laws" are in agreement with? I'm sorry you live in Cali. The rest of us don't have any sympathy for you.

Start with a committed effort to cut the Federal workforce by 40 -60%. As long as these worthless folks are on the payroll, they will continue to do crap to you in an attempt to justify their existence and you won't like it.

 

[NasteeNate]

I will say it again SCREW THE EPA. Its all a foreshadowing of taking people freedoms away and freedom of expression. It always start small and gets bigger. They must of felt proud going after VW/Audi now they are starting small fires with us, not going to happen. We already 80k strong on official petition.

 

[thomas91169]

Funny? no. I want a small federal government which stays out American's lives. You should clarify your position before we move forward. Do you agree with Obama and the executive branch action? You think we should just ignore it - no big deal to us - LET IT PASS for the betterment of the US Citizen?? What "current laws" are in agreement with? I'm sorry you live in Cali. The rest of us don't have any sympathy for you.

Lets tango.

I ****ing hate Obama and wish he would get plinked, but understand why he has an even dumber VP, its an insurance policy on this happening. I cant wait for Hitlery to get the Dem nod so she can be indicted and they become the party that puts up criminals, and then Ol Bernie gets put up and destroyed by any of the repub candidates.

I'm in favor of small government. I was against the Patriot Act because it infringes upon americans freedoms under the guise of national security. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". I'm against EO's, if you need to use an EO, then you likely lack the reasoning for its needing to be used in the first place, if your ideals are good enough they dont warrant having to use an EO.

I'm not in agreement with pretty much any law that infringes upon the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of men and women.

Someone from Germany has no grounds to stand upon and throw rocks at CA. That's pretty funny.

Start with a committed effort to cut the Federal workforce by 40 -60%. As long as these worthless folks are on the payroll, they will continue to do crap to you in an attempt to justify their existence and you won't like it.

Yup.

 

[Josie Wales]

Lets tango.

I ****ing hate Obama and wish he would get plinked, but understand why he has an even dumber VP, its an insurance policy on this happening. I cant wait for Hitlery to get the Dem nod so she can be indicted and they become the party that puts up criminals, and then Ol Bernie gets put up and destroyed by any of the repub candidates.

I'm in favor of small government. I was against the Patriot Act because it infringes upon americans freedoms under the guise of national security. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". I'm against EO's, if you need to use an EO, then you likely lack the reasoning for its needing to be used in the first place, if your ideals are good enough they dont warrant having to use an EO.

I'm not in agreement with pretty much any law that infringes upon the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of men and women.

Someone from Germany has no grounds to stand upon and throw rocks at CA. That's pretty funny.



Yup.

It probably hasn't occurred to you that I may serve this Nation while in Germany, but I would think it's obvious.

Your last statement was encouraging, but I think maybe a subterfuge considering what you stated in response to the EPA attempted overreach originally posted. Clintonesque your responses are. Which way is the wind blowing today thomas?

 

[LS Boss]

This is the whitehouse.gov petition. Not the one that was going around yesterday. It need another 30K signatures as of right now.

Sign it!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/tell-epa-withdraw-its-proposal-prohibit-conversion-vehicles-racecars-0

Hey Sqidd. Do you have a copy of the EPA rule that states the specific restrictions this petition is addressing?

Thanks,

LS Boss

 

[2001sleeper]

A clause that essentially limits your ability to enjoy the car hobby and some people just say it is not a big deal as they can't enforce it.

A clause that limits your ability to enjoy the gun hobby and everybody flips out.

Apparently, as long as they don't take your guns, nobody has enough care to stop the government from taking other rights/liberties/freedoms/enjoyments.

Hahahahaha

 

[SID297]

As opposed to the hundreds of thousands of others that do offer such services?

They couldve gone after business with the whole "off road use only" clause and dont, so they wont now.

Three years ago at SEMA officials from the EPA met with representatives of several tuning companies and basically warned them that they were on their radar. Since then DPF Deletes have gone underground. that was just the start.

At SEMA last year officials from the EPA met with representatives of several aftermarket parts manufacturers and showed them a Power Point presentation (I have a copy of it). In it they laid out their interpretation current law that there is no such thing as an "off road use only" exception. However, until this regulation takes effect all they have is their interpretation. This regulation would codify it and give them firm ground to stand on for enforcement.

They haven't officially gone after companies producing "off road use only" parts up until this point because they do not have a clearly defined regulation that they could point to. Under the current law they have to prove that the manufacturer has actual knowledge that the parts they are producing are being used illegally. With the "off road use only" exception currently being a grey area the manufacturer can argue that their products have a legal purpose.

Consider this, the ECU calibration on any new car is emissions certified by the EPA. Any device that alters the tune on an ECU by definition alters an emissions control device. Under this proposed reg no emissions control device can be legally altered, even if you were turning your Coyote Mustang into a Pro-Mod. Therefore, every product SCT sells is an illegal device. How long do you think it will be before the Feds come knocking.

Finally, I saw someone mention that these companies can just change their names and reopen. That statement is simply asinine for several reasons. Want proof? Go out to your garage and build a tuning device company from scratch (think the Fed are going to leave an infrastructure left of a company they shut down?). Sound tough? Now imagine doing so in an environment where the business you're trying to build is illegal. It would be the equivalent of trying to build a meth super lab with nothing but an idea. You're probably not going to make it too far before you run out of funds or are served a warrant/summons.

 

[2Rare]

Almost there. 13k left!

 

[ur bittn]

I'm sorry you live in Cali. The rest of us don't have any sympathy for you.

Hey! Thank you for your Service, But

 

[DHG1078]

Hey! Thank you for your Service, But

As much as I love the geographical location we all know as California, and what it has to offer, I hate how liberal this state is. I fully plan on moving out of state when my wife finishes school. She is at a private, for profit university so it's a bit harder to transfer and it's an accelerated curriculum so it only takes 39 months instead of 5+ years.


I signed the petition and there is less than 7k left to go.

 

[Zemedici]

This is how liberty dies folks. America is YOUR country. You want live in your box and ignore what's happening around you, then so be it. Regret will follow.

Speak up

Regret what, exactly? Some piece of paper telling me what I can and cannot do with my things?

Fun fact, it's federally illegal to take the cats off your car, as they're a vital emissions control component.
Guess everyone's going to jail.

Oh wait, no one gives a ****. Same with this. Choose your battles.

 

[SID297]

Regret what, exactly? Some piece of paper telling me what I can and cannot do with my things?

Fun fact, it's federally illegal to take the cats off your car, as they're a vital emissions control component.
Guess everyone's going to jail.

Oh wait, no one gives a ****. Same with this. Choose your battles.

If this reg becomes codified how do you plan on tuning your car?

 

[DHG1078]

Regret what, exactly? Some piece of paper telling me what I can and cannot do with my things?

Fun fact, it's federally illegal to take the cats off your car, as they're a vital emissions control component.
Guess everyone's going to jail.

Oh wait, no one gives a ****. Same with this. Choose your battles.

Slight correction. It's illegal to remove emissions equipment from vehicles being used on the street. It is legal to remove it from vehicles for off-highway use only. The EPA is trying to change that.

If it passes, no one will tune vehicles as they can get hit with jail time and fines. Which means no one can buy mods that requires a tune.

People do get fines, and jail time already for not running emissions equipment and illegal smogs.


This isn't a "the sky is falling" event, but why just roll over and let it happen if you don't have to?

 

[Zemedici]

Slight correction. It's illegal to remove emissions equipment from vehicles being used on the street. It is legal to remove it from vehicles for off-highway use only. The EPA is trying to change that.

If it passes, no one will tune vehicles as they can get hit with jail time and fines. Which means no one can buy mods that requires a tune.

People do get fines, and jail time already for not running emissions equipment and illegal smogs.


This isn't a "the sky is falling" event, but why just roll over and let it happen if you don't have to?

Yeah I thought that was understood, but come on. Like I'm taking my mustang off-road? People believe that? The vendors HAVE To say that shit so they can sell the stuff to whomever they wish.

If this reg becomes codified how do you plan on tuning your car?

Reflash car, get whatever I need, Reflash tune. Same as swapping mid pipes or MIL eliminators for no cat CEL. Just part of it. Idk, I don't get the big hullabaloo :shrug:

Besides this stuff takes years and years and years to go through the proper legislation.

 

[SID297]

Yeah I thought that was understood, but come on. Like I'm taking my mustang off-road? People believe that? The vendors HAVE To say that shit so they can sell the stuff to whomever they wish.



Reflash car, get whatever I need, Reflash tune. Same as swapping mid pipes or MIL eliminators for no cat CEL. Just part of it. Idk, I don't get the big hullabaloo :shrug:

Besides this stuff takes years and years and years to go through the proper legislation.

Where are you going to buy your illegal tuning device from? Remember what happened with MIL-eliminators about a decade ago? You think the EPA is going to leave any tuning company in business? The EPA will be free to treat SCT like it was Walter White.

This reg is already through the comment phase. At this point the comments will be considered then the final version will be sent to the OMB. From there it becomes law.

 

[rotor_powerd]

EPA smacked diesel tuners down hard a few years ago. That was nothing compared to what this will be if it goes through.

 

[thomas91169]

Slight correction. It's illegal to remove emissions equipment from vehicles being used on the street. It is legal to remove it from vehicles for off-highway use only. The EPA is trying to change that.

If it passes, no one will tune vehicles as they can get hit with jail time and fines. Which means no one can buy mods that requires a tune.

People do get fines, and jail time already for not running emissions equipment and illegal smogs.

Its ALREADY a federal offense to pull cats, yet it stops nobody who wants to do it from doing it.

Companies already sell parts that blatantly delete these things, to be used on cars that obviously are used on-road. The whole "Off road only" will just change into something else, like "We are not responsible for the end-use of this product and do not recommend it being installed in any way, shape or form onto a vehicle that will be driven on or off road". Boom, done.

Where are you going to buy your illegal tuning device from? Remember what happened with MIL-eliminators about a decade ago? You think the EPA is going to leave any tuning company in business? The EPA will be free to treat SCT like it was Walter White.

For my Genesis, ill send my spare PCM to Korea to have it reflashed, just like they do now through SFR or BTR, the only two vendors who currently offer tuning services into the ECU. There's a third, that uses a flash module, and they are also from Korea. What, you think the EPA is going to be able to prevent these companies from selling here?

If it gets really stupid, then ill just resort to modding older cars that they cant stop the used market from doing anything. Ill go back to DSM's or grab a cheap Fox/SN95 for my modding fix. What, theyre gonna go on every forum and ban the sale of said parts that have already been made? They cant stop me from buying ECMlink from someone and tuning the **** out of a GSX.

The EPA will not have the capability to go after every tuning company out there. Theres more than just SCT and Diablow. What about things like Cobb, who make simple access ports that allow people to produce their own tunes and flash? They are only providing a means in which end users can access their PCM, and unless the manufacturer cockblocks them (like Dodge has done I believe to some tuning solutions like that), good luck.

 

[thomas91169]

Finally, I saw someone mention that these companies can just change their names and reopen. That statement is simply asinine for several reasons. Want proof? Go out to your garage and build a tuning device company from scratch (think the Fed are going to leave an infrastructure left of a company they shut down?). Sound tough? Now imagine doing so in an environment where the business you're trying to build is illegal. It would be the equivalent of trying to build a meth super lab with nothing but an idea. You're probably not going to make it too far before you run out of funds or are served a warrant/summons.

Sure, I thought about doing just that.

I would love to create a laptop program that can utilize the OBDII port and the only physical thing you would buy is a OBDII to USB cable (from Amazon), the rest is done strictly on the program itself. Id model it directly after ECMlink, which is pretty much stand-alone that utilizes the stock ECU as its bitch. Its fully fledged logging and tuning software, not these pick and choose PID's like SCT/Diablow/Etc through some junk handheld (or now your cell phone), and you can tune every parameter the ECU can change, from timing to using your CEL as a knock indicator to how long it takes your cabin lights to timeoff once your door closes.

The only thing stopping me (and others), is the fact Hyundai has made these ECU's extremely finnicky to communicate with and get any useable information through the OBDII port or be able to flash tunes through it. The two tune makers require the ECU to be in their possession to flash direct to the ECU using a special port that is proprietary (for obvious reasons). That, and im no programmer, so I have that going against me lol.

So if I was successful, im simply selling a program that lets you communicate with the ECU. What you do with it, is on you. I'm not selling hardware, its simply software. The onus is on you to use it in accordance with the laws and regulations. Id go as far as to recommend its not for use on vehicles driven in the CONUS, because who knows, I could sell a tuning program to someone in TX who is using it on his car that is in Mexico.

 

[SonicDTR]

Sure, I thought about doing just that.

I would love to create a laptop program that can utilize the OBDII port and the only physical thing you would buy is a OBDII to USB cable (from Amazon), the rest is done strictly on the program itself. Id model it directly after ECMlink, which is pretty much stand-alone that utilizes the stock ECU as its bitch. Its fully fledged logging and tuning software, not these pick and choose PID's like SCT/Diablow/Etc through some junk handheld (or now your cell phone), and you can tune every parameter the ECU can change, from timing to using your CEL as a knock indicator to how long it takes your cabin lights to timeoff once your door closes.

The only thing stopping me (and others), is the fact Hyundai has made these ECU's extremely finnicky to communicate with and get any useable information through the OBDII port or be able to flash tunes through it. The two tune makers require the ECU to be in their possession to flash direct to the ECU using a special port that is proprietary (for obvious reasons). That, and im no programmer, so I have that going against me lol.

So if I was successful, im simply selling a program that lets you communicate with the ECU. What you do with it, is on you. I'm not selling hardware, its simply software. The onus is on you to use it in accordance with the laws and regulations. Id go as far as to recommend its not for use on vehicles driven in the CONUS, because who knows, I could sell a tuning program to someone in TX who is using it on his car that is in Mexico.

You just described HPTuners mostly. A good friend of mine works over there and he can whip up a PCM interface in his office in no time lol