Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?

[01performanceredvertsnake]

I get certain frustrations, but when they become "Ford can't keep up with the competition... their cars are too pricey... they are too slow to production", then it gets a little bit irritating. A lot of you are not taking into account the entire portfolio of performance vehicles Ford offers (that you would drive in a heartbeat), and how that accounts for overall resources. You are upset because the Mustang hasn't kept up with the Camaro and Challenger and all of the models they offer. Well, let's look at the performance vehicle portfolios of each brand. Chevy has the Corvette and Camaro... that's it. They don't have an answer to the Focus RS, let alone the ST in any trim of the Cruze. Chevy has the 2nd best selling truck yet they dont have an answer to the Raptor. Chevy also doesn't have an answer to the FGT in regards to a mid engine rear wheel drive supercar although the Corvette will likely morph into that. Dodge does not have an answer to the RS, Raptor, or FGT either and their only competitive vehicle to it is now defunct... again.

Ford offers a lot of cool vehicles that are unmatched in their segments yet they are "failing" somehow because one single model in the Mustang hasn't come out to answer even though it is in development and they already have arguably one of the most praised sports cars ever made in the GT350. A lot of us won't even be able to afford the GT500 yet here you are still here bitching about a slow release because you don't want the perception of Ford falling behind the curve. But why aren't you excited about all of the other great vehicles they offer? Is it because you have a short attention span and those cars are old news? That's your problem. You can't afford the high price tag? Guess what? Most of their vehicles are the best bang for your buck on the market so if you still can't afford it then again, that is your problem. I can't afford any of them new, but what do I do? I work and wait til I can buy a good low miles car used if I want it that bad. It's not Ford's fault you don't make enough to afford their cars when millions of other people do make enough to purchase them new.

Ford is pretty much dominating everyone else in unique product offerings. They aren't doing what Dodge does by squeezing in the same powertrain into every model they offer and slapping an SRT badge on it. I admit it is fun on the street but it is not exactly special. Ford and GM were doing that over a decade ago but have since diversified their vehicles so that each are unique in some way. If Dodge sells more SRTs because of it, good for them, but they are still a tanking manufacturer with poor quality in comparison.

If you are going to bitch then at least bitch about viable things. Understand that manufacturers can't just shit the cars out that you want at your every whim.

Thank you


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[svtfocus2cobra]

Sorry friend this isn't about other vehicles hence the title of this thread....

But the other vehicles very much determined everything about the timing of the new GT500. If they weren't there, you'd have a new GT500 every year. That's what's annoying. Some of you think Ford can just create one whenever you get the itch to have the latest and greatest. All of the other vehicles in the portfolio is probably why the GT500 has taken this long. They only have so many resources and the man power to build such a vehicle.

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[pwrshft99]

Meh. A tenth or two for a car optimized to run the 1/4 mile vs one that can do everything else better, and I wonder what that race would look like at a half mile. Besides... the GT350 isn't a car you buy just to go fast in a straight line. Figured that was common knowledge by now. Lol

And if you want that, simply add a blower. Several kits are out there...

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That's exactly the problem I'm referring too. Just simply add a blower.. that's bullshit

But the other vehicles very much determined everything about the timing of the new GT500. If they weren't there, you'd have a new GT500 every year. That's what's annoying. Some of you think Ford can just create one whenever you get the itch to have the latest and greatest. All of the other vehicles in the portfolio is probably why the GT500 has taken this long. They only have so many resources and the man power to build such a vehicle.

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It doesn't not take 4 years for a company the size of Ford to engineer a engine for a car already being produced. Even worse is they are using mostly parts already in production. So what's the problem here?

Colleti gave SVT less than a year to go from an NA 2002 Cobra prototype to the supercharged car that came out. This is 15 years later with a hell of a lot more technology going into the development process. Enjoy your teaser pics as much as you want, this is ridiculous.

 

[351stang]

How is the the brake distance of M6 HC 40% longer than A8?

Dodge quality control?

 

[ssj4sadie]

Dodge quality control?

Different speeds.

 

[Osiris]

It's not a tenth or two....it is almost a full second. That is bus lengths in the quarter and will be more bus lengths by the 1/2. The normal ZL1 ran a faster lap at Willow Springs than a GT350R. This isn't the ZL1 1LE.

It's simply a faster car for less money.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/#

Your first sentence spoke about the 2018 Mustang. That was my response.

As for the Zl1. A full second with lower weight and 120 more HP and over 220 more lb ft of torque...that gets you 3 tenths of a second...or in other words, a driver's race.

Again....there is a reason why they have discounts.

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[351stang]

Your first sentence spoke about the 2018 Mustang. That was my response.

As for the Zl1. A full second with lower weight and 120 more HP and over 220 more lb ft of torque...that gets you 3 tenths of a second...or in other words, a driver's race.

Again....there is a reason why they have discounts.

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[ssj4sadie]

So how many ZL1’s to GT350/R’s produced for 18?

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

That's exactly the problem I'm referring too. Just simply add a blower.. that's bullshit


It doesn't not take 4 years for a company the size of Ford to engineer a engine for a car already being produced. Even worse is they are using mostly parts already in production. So what's the problem here?

Colleti gave SVT less than a year to go from an NA 2002 Cobra prototype to the supercharged car that came out. This is 15 years later with a hell of a lot more technology going into the development process. Enjoy your teaser pics as much as you want, this is ridiculous.

I highly doubt you nor I are qualified to say how long it takes to bring a product to production. You can reference old vehicles all you want which is easy when you aren't taking into account how much standards and regulations have changed since then and how much they change every year.

Do you really think Ford said to themselves "Let's really drag our feet on this one so that when it comes to market it will already be irrelevant"... does that really sounds like something one of the largest auto manufactures and overall company in general would do? We were informed by DBK that there are some major issues and infighting within Ford that Im sure is having an effect on product plans. If that is the case then it sucks to say that solving that takes much higher precedance than getting a niche vehicle to market.

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[Klaus]

No one is scared of the GT350 because it is slower than a 2018 GT with the auto. It is a full second slower in the quarter mile than a ZL1 and it's a toss up on a road course with a normal ZL1 (not 1LE) and the GT350R. It also cost considerably more than the 2018 GT or ZL1. Unless you are a brand loyalist (which is totally cool), then there are other options. The GT350 sounds nicer.

I don't get the negative comment about ZL1's at a discount. As a buyer, what would you prefer? I got $7000 under MSRP on mine, which is why I didn't even consider a GT350 even though I'm a lifetime Mustang guy.

You do not even need the ZL1 to prove your point. If I recall the SS 1LE is an equal match on the track for the gt350.

 

[ON D BIT]

This was posted over on another forum.

ZL1 A10
¼ mile: 11.5 sec @ 125.0 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 96 ft
Figure eight: 23.1 sec @0.91 g (avg)
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...olet-camaro-zl1-first-test-brute-squad-goals/

ZL1 M6
¼ mile: 11.8 sec @ 123.9 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 97 ft
Figure eight: 23.2 sec @0.89 g (avg)
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/...gt350r-review/

Hellcat A8
¼ mile: 11.7 sec @ 125.4 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 109 ft
Figure eight: 24.7 sec @0.85 g (avg)

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/dodge/challenger/2015/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-first-test/

2013 GT500
¼ mile: 11.6 sec @ 125.7 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 101 ft
Figure eight: 24.2 sec @0.80 g (avg)
Cost: $64,770 (2013) plus ADM

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/shelby-gt500/2013/2013-ford-shelby-gt500-first-test/

HellcatM6
Standing ¼ mile: 11.9 sec @ 124 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 154 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-manual-test-review

According to your post the 13 GT500 is faster than all the above minus the A10 zl1.

I never said gutless. I just pointed out that a 2018 GT with an A10 smokes it. Interpret that as you will.

I think think you are confusing getting raped by dealers compared to a natural supply/demand environment.



Yeah right, beats the solid axle GT500 in a straight line and beats the GT350RRRRR at the road course.

You guys live in freaking fantasy (fanboy) land.

I’m still trying figure out why the newer cars are not significantly faster...

 

[ON D BIT]

How is the the brake distance of M6 HC 40% longer than A8?

60-0 vs 70-0

 

[351stang]

Publicly traded companies with Boards of Directors don't always make decisions based on what their customers want. If the margin on Raptors is 5-10% over the margin on Mustangs, then guess what gets capital investment. As car guys, we usually get the benefit of when real car people like John Coletti get to take some risk like the Terminator. The Camaro Chief Engineer, Al Oppenheiser, is like Coletti and the design shows it. I would just encourage the folks that haven't driven one to have a cool Saturday afternoon and go test drive one. SHOCKER......you can go drive a ZL1 without a down payment. If it isn't your thing, then you know. Go burn someone else's rubber and gas. I would say that you need to adjust the seat properly. It has a wide range and reduces the visibility complaints. I was shocked when I sat down and didn't have the reported problems, but I'm pretty average height at 5' 9".

I test drove two, then bought one two weeks later. I know first world problems............

I highly doubt you nor I are qualified to say how long it takes to bring a product to production. You can reference old vehicles all you want which is easy when you aren't taking into account how much standards and regulations have changed since then and how much they change every year.

Do you really think Ford said to themselves "Let's really drag our feet on this one so that when it comes to market it will already be irrelevant"... does that really sounds like something one of the largest auto manufactures and overall company in general would do? We were informed by DBK that there are some major issues and infighting within Ford that Im sure is having an effect on product plans. If that is the case then it sucks to say that solving that takes much higher precedance than getting a niche vehicle to market.

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[351stang]

double post....sorry.

 

[Dusten]

Well, seems like you don’t know how to interpret head flow that well.
The DOHC flow is much better at low/mid lift and you’re only at peak flow once and all other points twice, so area under the curve significantly improved with the Coyote. Plus those are 2011-14 numbers and the ‘15-17 is 10-15 intake/5-10 exhaust better not to mention the GT350 and 2018 heads.
Combine that with more valve area and put that better flowing, larger valve area head on a smaller 5.0-5.2 motor and it beats the LS
then add boost and advantage Ford.
I’ll keep the boosted Coyote based engine for my build.
-J

I can read head flow just fine.
He said no way a 2 gauge can outflow a 4v.
Ls heads, even in stock trim are great.
The coyote is fords first head thats out performes its gm counterparts since the advent of the fox.

And at .200 and .300 the ls3 heads are easily out flowing the 4v offerings.

 

[ON D BIT]

Publicly traded companies with Boards of Directors don't always make decisions based on what their customers want. If the margin on Raptors is 5-10% over the margin on Mustangs, then guess what gets capital investment. As car guys, we usually get the benefit of when real car people like John Coletti get to take some risk like the Terminator. The Camaro Chief Engineer, Al Oppenheiser, is like Coletti and the design shows it. I would just encourage the folks that haven't driven one to have a cool Saturday afternoon and go test drive one. SHOCKER......you can go drive a ZL1 without a down payment. If it isn't your thing, then you know. Go burn someone else's rubber and gas. I would say that you need to adjust the seat properly. It has a wide range and reduces the visibility complaints. I was shocked when I sat down and didn't have the reported problems, but I'm pretty average height at 5' 9".

I test drove two, then bought one two weeks later. I know first world problems............

Now we get to the heart of the issue.

If I’m paying 60k and up for very specific limited edition new car no way in hell do I want anyone else driving the car I want to buy. I for one am very glad Ford does not let any yahoo grind the clutch or smoke the tires on their Performance Vehicles.

As for al o. I just have to laugh. Can he or GM do more posturing, or omitting or flat lies about the performance of their off the showroom vehicles?

 

[351stang]

I for one would rather have the opportunity to drive a vehicle before handing over cash for it. Did you get married on the first date?

What are these lies you are referring to?

Now we get to the heart of the issue.

If I’m paying 60k and up for very specific limited edition new car no way in hell do I want anyone else driving the car I want to buy. I for one am very glad Ford does not let any yahoo grind the clutch or smoke the tires on their Performance Vehicles.

As for al o. I just have to laugh. Can he or GM do more posturing, or omitting or flat lies about the performance of their off the showroom vehicles?

 

[biminiLX]

I can read head flow just fine.
He said no way a 2 gauge can outflow a 4v.
Ls heads, even in stock trim are great.
The coyote is fords first head thats out performes its gm counterparts since the advent of the fox.

And at .200 and .300 the ls3 heads are easily out flowing the 4v offerings.

Might as well just delete the early comparison.
LS3 (was around 2009) and Coyote '11-14 data you posted shows the Coyote flowing more from .200-.400 lift, where most factory cams live.
The LS and new Hemi have amazing flow from the factory, but they will lose to an efficient DOHC 4V head.
There's a reason the Ford modular swept Engine Masters 1-2-3 with the only 3 that competed, causing a ban on 4V/DOHC design.
Just see John Mihovetz and Accufab racing, or MMR both into the 5s with factory heads.
So, yes, the Coyote platform outflows the LS design.
-J

 

[ON D BIT]

I for one would rather have the opportunity to drive a vehicle before handing over cash for it. Did you get married on the first date?

What are these lies you are referring to?

The z28 faster than the 12 zl1, the z28 running the ring stock when it obviously had items on the car that were not on the car during the press release. GM is known for shaving tires and other non stock tricks for marketing times.

I have no problem working a deal then proving funds before driving a car prior to purchase. I do have issues with 19 year olds driving $50k + vehicles just to say they drove one.

 

[DBK]

It's simply a faster car for less money.

Yeah, but honestly, so what? This is a logic that inevitably ends up with you having a more expensive, slower car than some kid in a ragged out Honda. And part of the reason they are "less money" is obvious: less people want it.

The original Z28 was road course King Kong and you could buy them for literally $30,000 under MSRP not that long after release. What does that tell you? It's not that consumers are just stupid. People voting with their wallets say magazine facts and figures matter a lot less than people arguing on the internet think.

This applies up and down the food chain. The new GT500 is gonna be faster than a whole bunch of exotic hardware that costs several times the price. And when people say "Why would I buy a XXXX, I could buy a GT500 for half that and be faster" it's going to be just as useless of an argument.