Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?

[13COBRA]

I can't see anything out of a Camaro either, not a fan.

 

[gimmie11s]

I wouldn't say no one wanted the Z/28. It was just waaaay overpriced.

Agree

And no, the '18 GT is not faster than the GT350. The video you posted is with an '18 GT on wider-than-stock drag radials. And the GT was still barely faster with the 10-speed auto. I suspect there's going to be some disappointed '18 GT automatic owners when they try to roll race GT350s. Do you really think Ford is going to release a regular GT that performs on par with a GT350 while keeping the GT350 in production? The GT is more drag friendly than the GT350, and that's where it ends.

Agree with most of this. However, The GT with auto is unarguably quicker (E.T.) than a GT350 down the strip (understand you don't care about 1/4 mi).

That said... both trap (MPH) similarly in stock form and I would guess an auto GT vs a GT350 in a roll race would favor the 350 assuming the driver can shift competently.

Mustang GTs are not specialty Mustangs, and there are no Boss 302S, 302R, or Cobra Jets roaming the streets. I get what you're trying to say, though. It still doesn't really matter. Look how many 911 variants Porsche pushes out constantly.

Agree.

 

[Legendary 351]

So no one races on paper...they just race on posting youtube links now, is that it?

You never addressed the fact that the 350 is still the better car vs the '18 GT in every other way but the couple of tenths in the 1/4. (Which is what Ford built it to do) Now we're back to the ZL1 again, seeing that is the car you own, I suppose that's how things are in ZL1 fanboy fantasy land?

Back to the GT350...A car...that was developed...and cleaned the prior gen Z28's clock, which is what it was built to do, and along the way earned worldwide respect. Ford has decided to keep building it because they obviously feel it remains competitive.

But isn't that the way things are supposed to go? Congrats, you've just discovered why Ford is building a GT500 now.

I'm fine with Ford taking time to get it right. No sense in dropping your performance flagship when GM is just waiting to sit back, copy ideas like they always do and one up it. Better to let GM try to guess and clobber them in the end, like they did with the Terminator.

And they certainly can do it fast if they wanted. Don't forget how quickly, and quietly, both the previous and current generation GT got developed and launched.

I agree, Garbage Motors just copy Ford.i remember when the zl1 was coming out, the 580hp one and they thought they were going to beat up the 2012 GT500, and out of no where, that 2013 GT500 came out and stomped the Crapmaro zl1.Ford will do it again.

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[DepWraith]

I hope this includes Ford Performance Vehicles, it would definitely boost sales and likely would eliminate local dealer rape, I mean mark ups. Would be rather ironic, sort of like the burger flippers wanting $15 an hour and getting replaced by online ordering kiosks and such...

https://mashable.com/2018/03/19/ford-online-car-buying-site/#w13uDJE5wgqw

 

[Dusten]

I hope this includes Ford Performance Vehicles, it would definitely boost sales and likely would eliminate local dealer rape, I mean mark ups. Would be rather ironic, sort of like the burger flippers wanting $15 an hour and getting replaced by online ordering kiosks and such...

https://mashable.com/2018/03/19/ford-online-car-buying-site/#w13uDJE5wgqw

It pretty clearly states you're still buying from a dealer. Its not ford cutting out the middle man. So you look at a dealer inventory, and do most of the work online.

"On the site, you can search available inventory, see pricing details, and lock in a price for 48 hours. You can also apply for financing, look into a trade-in deal, sign up for a lease, and schedule a test drive. "

 

[BlksvtCobra01]

I wouldn't say no one wanted the Z/28. It was just waaaay overpriced.



That seems more like an insecurity thing on your (and people who think like this) part. That aside, by show of hands, how many current GT500 owners in here are "scared" or intimidated by a ZL1 or Hellcat rolling up? I'm certainly not worried. And I bet most other GT500 owners aren't, either.



Well, Chevy did have the Avalanche before Ford had the Raptor. ;P Dodge has that Ram Rebel thing that's supposed to be in the Raptor's niche.



Exactly! I don't give one whit about the ZL1 or Hellcat being faster in a straight line than my R. I don't want a straight-line-only car.



Deep discounts are good, but unless you plan on keeping the car for a LONG time, you're going to pay for on the back end when you're ready to sell/trade. I could probably take my R to a Chevy dealership right now, do a key swap, and walk away with no more car payments and an extra check. Why? Because the R is still worth a lot more than what ZL1s are selling for brand new. However, that's all irrelevant to me. I don't buy a car thinking about resale, unless it's something that I didn't really want in the first place. You were once a Mustang fan, and now you're still floating on the high of new ZL1 smell. I have a feeling that, when the GT500 comes out, you're going to be trying to unload that ZL1 for it. Don't be mad at the trade offers you get.

Concerning the track times of the ZL1 and R; it shouldn't even be a tossup between the two. All that extra power and torque, and the ZL1 eked out a 0.39 second advantage over the R on a non technical track. The ZL1 1LE's 1.81 advantage at Laguna Seca was probably gained mostly in the long sprint between turn 11 and turn 2. I'd like to see a head to head of the ZL1 1LE and the R at Big Willow; same day, same driver.

And no, the '18 GT is not faster than the GT350. The video you posted is with an '18 GT on wider-than-stock drag radials. And the GT was still barely faster with the 10-speed auto. I suspect there's going to be some disappointed '18 GT automatic owners when they try to roll race GT350s. Do you really think Ford is going to release a regular GT that performs on par with a GT350 while keeping the GT350 in production? The GT is more drag friendly than the GT350, and that's where it ends.



Never been proven same day, same driver. It just keeps getting repeated over and over in the Camaro camp.



Mustang GTs are not specialty Mustangs, and there are no Boss 302S, 302R, or Cobra Jets roaming the streets. I get what you're trying to say, though. It still doesn't really matter. Look how many 911 variants Porsche pushes out constantly.

Lol GTFO at comparing an Avalanche to a Raptor.


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[tt335ci03cobra]

Lol GTFO at comparing an Avalanche to a Raptor.


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Ya that was crap but I get his point. I think he was beyond spot on regarding the gt350r compared to the zl1 and zl1 1le.

He didn’t mention it, but the tire treadwear on a zl1 1le is a 100tw. The gt350r runs a 180tw hahaha. Think about that for a good long minute.

The gt350r is on a 180tw tire. It being .39 off the time of a zl1 on a mild track is total toss up to drivers. The zl1 is on a 220tw tire. It also has 125hp on the gt350r. Here is the track that the zl1 barely edged out the gt350r at. Notice the lack of technicality.

 

[351stang]

You were once a Mustang fan, and now you're still floating on the high of new ZL1 smell. I have a feeling that, when the GT500 comes out, you're going to be trying to unload that ZL1 for it. Don't be mad at the trade offers you get.

I am still a Mustang guy. Just not a fan of the current direction. I still own two Mustangs! Arguably some of the best of their generation, a Mystichrome Cobra and a Black 93 LX Coupe.

The Camaro is going to depreciate, but I plan on keeping it for a long time. Just like all of my vehicles.

We'll see when the GT500 comes out, but I've made my bet. I'm all in.

If they ever come out with another Lightning.....then I may be tempted.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

This is the track that the 650hp zl1 1le put 1.9 seconds on the gt350r at.

Much more technical. I can guarantee you that a zl1 1le on the same tired as a zl1 (that 220tw eagle) would barely run any faster if at most by half a second. The tires are obviously key at a track like this.

I think a zl1 1le would be 2-3 seconds faster around this willow course

than a gt350r, but it would all be owed to the tires putting the power down and keeping high G’s in the sweeping bends.

So to top that all off, I’d be content with a gt350r on cup tires and would probably proceed to drive into faster lap ranges than either of the stock tire sc’d camaros.

This goes back to the real world age old reality that track prep as in track tires, high temp fluid bled properly, driving skill sets, and a commitment to maintenance, and repair is the cheapest and best way to improve lap times dramatically.

All of this internet racing is a joke. In real life, the 300hp 10/1 lbs/hp car on cup tires that is setup well and dialed in driven well turns faster laps than the 700hp 5/1 lbs/hp hoopty on aggressive cupped (as in damaged to hell at the edges) “performance” boarderline all season street tires with heat scorched brakes, dying clutch, and $300 eBay aero splitters and spoilers...

The gt350r is better balanced and lighter in total weight, and most importantly inspiring weight. It’s geared too long for its own good. Put a cup tire and a 4.29 rear in a gt350r and you have about the perfect track toy mustang. Hell, mess lighter better brakes if you have the 5 figures to do so and call it a day.

One thing I wouldn’t do is put a blower on it then try to rebalance the car. I could see putting a switch chip for e85, full exhaust, and moderate cam work to try for 550whp na with a nice custom closed ram air inlet (true cold air)

What ford will gain in straight line capability with this sc’d 5.2 and the requisite 750 odd hp it might well lose in actual track proficiency.

I’d rather have an over achieving 526hp ride than a questionable 755hp one. I think Ford has taken so long on this car because they don’t want to muck up the car and end up in a worse place.

I fully expect the gt500 when track pack equipped will be seconds faster than the zl1 1le, which would indeed put it toe to toe with hyper cars. The million dollar hyper cars under perform for their power levels. High spec club racers have ran faster times with hundreds fewer hp. Ford just has to do what Dodge did and really focus on the given segment they want to dominate.

 

[351stang]

Until we have a car to talk about, it is all internet racing.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Until we have a car to talk about, it is all internet racing.

We have cars, yours is a great gm product, mine is a great ford product. We can physically race our cars.

This thread is about a car that has yet to officially be revealed... the sad thing is how much time it’s taken.

I get that it’s internet racing to be on the internet racing cars in theoretical ways.

I pointed out the tire difference to explain the potential that tires alone add in the real world. Outside of the internet, everybody is used to seeing track prep involve swapping to cup shoes and hi temp fluid.

The zl1 and zl1 1le have less to gain from this than the gt350r does. Once a gt350r is track prepped, it punches well above it’s 526hp 3700lbs 7/1 lbs/hp class regarding lap times.

Aston Martin, Ferrari, Porsche and others have cars with the same or better ratio that can’t keep up. That’s an accomplishment.

 

[Snoopy49]

 

[Snagged]

Mustang GTs are not specialty Mustangs, and there are no Boss 302S, 302R, or Cobra Jets roaming the streets. I get what you're trying to say, though. It still doesn't really matter. Look how many 911 variants Porsche pushes out constantly.

I was using the term "streets" loosely, as in what people can use for their own type of driving a Mustang (road course, drag strip, street/strip, garage, hermetically sealed in a garage...). I've posted this list many times before and this time around I forgot to write, "what Ford offers and used to offer." I got lazy. I just mean car variants offered. The point is, there is a crap ton of different types of Mustangs out there. Including the Eco boost 4 banger, V6 (RIP) and the V8. Something for everyone's flavor that doesn't have to be a specialty, just a type of Mustang. There are a ton of Mustangs out there.

 

[GT Premi]

... Once a gt350r is track prepped, it punches well above it’s 526hp 3700lbs 7/1 lbs/hp class regarding lap times.

...

I'd love to see what an R could do on the recommended track alignment specs. Unfortunately, those specs [supposedly] can't be achieved without aftermarket parts. It probably has unfathomable grip with track alignment and/or slicks. I haven't looked at the sheet in a while, but I believe the specs are very aggressive. Definitely not a spec you'd want to use on the street, unless you like buying tires every 3 months or less.

 

[13COBRA]

I'd love to see what an R could do on the recommended track alignment specs. Unfortunately, those specs [supposedly] can't be achieved without aftermarket parts. It probably has unfathomable grip with track alignment and/or slicks. I haven't looked at the sheet in a while, but I believe the specs are very aggressive. Definitely not a spec you'd want to use on the street, unless you like buying tires every 3 months or less.

What are the track alignment specs for the R?

 

[AustinSN]

What are the track alignment specs for the R?

Apparently it's -1.75F and -1.25R which isn't much.

I'm probably at -1.3F and -1R on my car.

I would prefer at least -2.2 on my car to see how it does. The R could likely use quite a bit more than that, tire dependent.

 

[13COBRA]

Apparently it's -1.75F and -1.25R which isn't much.

I'm probably at -1.3F and -1R on my car.

I would prefer at least -2.2 on my car to see how it does. The R could likely use quite a bit more than that, tire dependent.

Gotcha! I hadn't ever seen the specs on it.

That's pretty impressive for your car.

Now if only you had your driver door lock cover..

 

[AustinSN]

Gotcha! I hadn't ever seen the specs on it.

That's pretty impressive for your car.

Now if only you had your driver door lock cover..

Lol hurry please

 

[13COBRA]

Lol hurry please

In the paint booth now lol

 

[Tob]

What are the track alignment specs for the R?

There's a card in your dad's glovebox with the manuals that lists recommended alignment specifications.