Coyote vs ls motor's

[Butters916]

:lol: Yes because GM was the first company to make an engine with a front mounted throttle body, scond drive belt for the a/c etc. Packaging was a big thing that prevented the 4.6 in the sn95 platforms from having a front mounted throttle body. By your logic every one has been copying Ferarri since they have had front mounted throttle bodies since..........they started making engines really!

Also your statement of nobody cares about base model for base model is complete bull shit!!! If no body gave a shit then why do sooooo many car magazines test stock cars against each other all the time! Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Automobile, Road and Track etc! Every body knows that once you start to mod it all comes down to who has more money in their wallet. I could make an 8 second 3 cylinder Geo Metro with enough money.

Stock for stock the new Coyote will stand up very nicely against the LS3. When you start to mod I will give the advantage to the LS3, BUT we dont know how well this new 5.0 is going to respond to mods either. Some speculate that there is not much left to squeeze out of it but time will tell. Chances are we wont really know till 2-3 years from now.

Last time I checked this was a Ford SVT performance forum. However, this forum seems to have the most Ford owners with the most respect to other brands than any other I've ever been on. YOU are nothing but a groveling, sniveling GM nut hugger with blinders on. Have all your post come from this thread alone?!?!?! GTFO TROLL! This thread had potential until you and a couple other GM nut suckers and a couple narrow minded Ford nut swingers ruined what could have been a good thread with some good information and good tech! But now this thread belongs in smack down.:bored:

A) The Camaro and Challenger are competitors of the mustang and if you really dont think that each company buys the others vehicles and has the engineers disassemble it and imitate the designs then your crazy. I assume that you agree with the first part of what I said about the P/S pump and Headers.

B) your next point makes no sense, when did I say that magazines dont test like cars against each other? Many people were posting about how the Mustang now has a 400hp base model for 30k and that is somehow suppose to mean something. The Camaro has a base model v8 with 400hp or 426hp depending on a man or auto for around 36k.

C) if you go back to my first post on this thread then you will see I basically said exactly that.

D) Your right that this is a Ford site, but this is not a Ford only section of the site especially when people are posting up videos racing an Accord/Z28/ZO6 and others. Maybe its just ignorant people like you who read the last few posts and feel the need to open your mouth that get pissy when were not all singing about Ford. This is a discussion about the new motor and its potential against a proven motor, if you dont like that, then dont come into the topic. Who cares if Ive only posted on this topic? I dont own a Ford, Not too many other "Resturants" have topics that Im interested in right now and I was contributing/discussing in this thread until stupid A$$holes like you came along.

 

[Heater]

You act like this new 5.0 motor makes this power with no work at all. Did you not realize the new motor doesnt have a power steering pump driven by the acc belt drive? How bout the fact that it comes with factory short tube headers? I also think its kinda funny that Ford copied the LS motors with the front throttle body location, second drive belt for the A/C compressor, log style water pump and thermostat and the Intake manifold looks alot like the GM unit.

As thick as your Chebby Orange glasses are I'm sure that you couldn't see; but the GM LS engine looks like a straight knock off of the SBF.

So before you act like Ford is all about copying GM, you might want to take a good look before opening your mouth.

 

[Butters916]

As thick as your Chebby Orange glasses are I'm sure that you couldn't see; but the GM LS engine looks like a straight knock off of the SBF.

So before you act like Ford is all about copying GM, you might want to take a good look before opening your mouth.

Like I said above, Im sure they did do that when the LS line came out but that was then and this is now. Thank God they didnt follow Ford with their OHC V8 design cause that only took what 15 years to make decent? Its too bad that most of you Ford guys have no reading comprehension skills at all and are just quick to throw names and insults.

 

[mrlrd1]

So yeah I would say ford has been at it a little longer than Chevy. By the way if you would like to get into the history of it just remember ford did have the first V-8 there buddy.

V8's were not invented by American auto companies.

Cadillac (GM) released the first American V8. Chevrolet (GM) released the second American V8. Ford was third with the Flathead. Great for it's time, but a piece of shit today. Oldsmobile (GM, getting the picture yet?) introduced the first OHV V8, the kind we're all familiar with. When Chevrolet released the SBC in 1955 it's impact proved to be FAR, FAR greater than the old Ford boat anchor. The LSx is an evolution of that design, and it's still kicking butt today in pretty much every category worth comparing.

Regardless of their accomplishments, the SBF has always and will always be overshadowed by the SBC. Today, the mod motor is in the same situation as the SBF. The SBC and LSx were widely accepted and highly praised upon introduction. The SBF and mod motors took YEARS to come into their own.

Ford has thrown every trick they've got at this new 5.0 short of a supercharger. Hopefully it works out well, so Ford doesn't have to give up, AGAIN, and throw a blower at the problem.

op:

 

[Butters916]

V8's were not invented by american auto companies.

Cadillac (gm) released the first american v8. Chevrolet (gm) released the second american v8. Ford was third with the flathead. Great for it's time, but a piece of shit today. Oldsmobile (gm, getting the picture yet?) introduced the first ohv v8, the kind we're all familiar with. When chevrolet released the sbc in 1955 it's impact proved to be far, far greater than the old ford boat anchor. The lsx is an evolution of that design, and it's still kicking butt today in pretty much every category worth comparing.

Regardless of their accomplishments, the sbf has always and will always be overshadowed by the sbc. Today, the mod motor is in the same situation as the sbf. The sbc and lsx were widely accepted and highly praised upon introduction. The sbf and mod motors took years to come into their own.

Ford has thrown every trick they've got at this new 5.0 short of a supercharger. Hopefully it works out well, so ford doesn't have to give up, again, and throw a blower at the problem.

op:

+1

 

[97desertCobra]

A) The Camaro and Challenger are competitors of the mustang and if you really dont think that each company buys the others vehicles and has the engineers disassemble it and imitate the designs then your crazy. I assume that you agree with the first part of what I said about the P/S pump and Headers.

B) your next point makes no sense, when did I say that magazines dont test like cars against each other? Many people were posting about how the Mustang now has a 400hp base model for 30k and that is somehow suppose to mean something. The Camaro has a base model v8 with 400hp or 426hp depending on a man or auto for around 36k.

C) if you go back to my first post on this thread then you will see I basically said exactly that.

D) Your right that this is a Ford site, but this is not a Ford only section of the site especially when people are posting up videos racing an Accord/Z28/ZO6 and others. Maybe its just ignorant people like you who read the last few posts and feel the need to open your mouth that get pissy when were not all singing about Ford. This is a discussion about the new motor and its potential against a proven motor, if you dont like that, then dont come into the topic. Who cares if Ive only posted on this topic? I dont own a Ford, Not too many other "Resturants" have topics that Im interested in right now and I was contributing/discussing in this thread until stupid A$$holes like you came along.

Yes the new Coyote has really good set of short tube headers from the factory. So what. Ford put some really good engineering to use with this new engine to include the headers. Nobody is making headers the way this one is designed either, Ford is actually persuing a patent on the design. Bolt ons may not gain much power with this new engine, but that doesn't bother me at all. Stock vs stock the Coyote will hold its own very well against the LS3.

You said nobody cares about base model this base model that but people do care! A 412hp 5.0 DOHC V8 is now offered in a car that cost 30k. Thats one hell of a bang for your buck. Especially if this new engine and platform can match the BMW M3 around the track which is what Ford has claimed. That would be quite the accomplishment. It certainly does mean something.

I was posting in this thread before you came in here and polluted it. At first this thread had potential but you and others ruined it. All your posts are in this thread which really proves you only came here to piss people off with your GM is GOD attitude and rhetoric. You are a classic troll. You are the stupid ass hole here. I was one of the first people to post in this thread and I was one of the first to give credit to the LS3.

 

[97desertCobra]

V8's were not invented by American auto companies.

Cadillac (GM) released the first American V8. Chevrolet (GM) released the second American V8. Ford was third with the Flathead. Great for it's time, but a piece of shit today. Oldsmobile (GM, getting the picture yet?) introduced the first OHV V8, the kind we're all familiar with. When Chevrolet released the SBC in 1955 it's impact proved to be FAR, FAR greater than the old Ford boat anchor. The LSx is an evolution of that design, and it's still kicking butt today in pretty much every category worth comparing.

Regardless of their accomplishments, the SBF has always and will always be overshadowed by the SBC. Today, the mod motor is in the same situation as the SBF. The SBC and LSx were widely accepted and highly praised upon introduction. The SBF and mod motors took YEARS to come into their own.

Ford has thrown every trick they've got at this new 5.0 short of a supercharger. Hopefully it works out well, so Ford doesn't have to give up, AGAIN, and throw a blower at the problem.

op:

Kind of like Chevy realized that they were at their limits with the LS7 so dropping down in displacement and boost the LS3 was the solution. Throwing a blower at that problem seemed to work pretty well for the ZR1 just like having a blower on the 4.6 worked very well for the 03-04 Cobra.

There will be a boosted version of the Coyote in the future, and I don't get why this would bother people. Boost is a great equalizer and considering how well the new cylinder heads and intake flow this new engine should be beastly with a good FI set up. I guess its mosty the GM guys that get all pissy about Ford having a blower on thier mustangs from the factory.

 

[mustangmanjeff]

Yes the new Coyote has really good set of short tube headers from the factory. So what. Ford put some really good engineering to use with this new engine to include the headers. Nobody is making headers the way this one is designed either, Ford is actually persuing a patent on the design. Bolt ons may not gain much power with this new engine, but that doesn't bother me at all. Stock vs stock the Coyote will hold its own very well against the LS3.

You said nobody cares about base model this base model that but people do care! A 412hp 5.0 DOHC V8 is now offered in a car that cost 30k. Thats one hell of a bang for your buck. Especially if this new engine and platform can match the BMW M3 around the track which is what Ford has claimed. That would be quite the accomplishment. It certainly does mean something.

I was posting in this thread before you came in here and polluted it. At first this thread had potential but you and others ruined it. All your posts are in this thread which really proves you only came here to piss people off with your GM is GOD attitude and rhetoric. You are a classic troll. You are the stupid ass hole here. I was one of the first people to post in this thread and I was one of the first to give credit to the LS3.

x2

 

[Butters916]

Yes the new Coyote has really good set of short tube headers from the factory. So what. Ford put some really good engineering to use with this new engine to include the headers. Nobody is making headers the way this one is designed either, Ford is actually persuing a patent on the design. Bolt ons may not gain much power with this new engine, but that doesn't bother me at all. Stock vs stock the Coyote will hold its own very well against the LS3.

You said nobody cares about base model this base model that but people do care! A 412hp 5.0 DOHC V8 is now offered in a car that cost 30k. Thats one hell of a bang for your buck. Especially if this new engine and platform can match the BMW M3 around the track which is what Ford has claimed. That would be quite the accomplishment. It certainly does mean something.

I was posting in this thread before you came in here and polluted it. At first this thread had potential but you and others ruined it. All your posts are in this thread which really proves you only came here to piss people off with your GM is GOD attitude and rhetoric. You are a classic troll. You are the stupid ass hole here. I was one of the first people to post in this thread and I was one of the first to give credit to the LS3.

So what about the headers? there def not cast iron manifolds and Ford didnt put them on the motor because they are super cost effective or easy to manufacture. They put them on because they wanted to get as many ponys out of this motor N/A since they knew what the competition was. Thats great that there on the motor from the factory but it also tells you they are approaching the limits of what that Motor will produce in a factory form minus a supercharger. The same could be said when the ls6 motor came out with sodium filled valves. When the factory goes to hot rodder tricks for power then the easy stuff has already been used.

Your right that the overall car is a good bang for the buck. I also said that the mustang would beat a ls3 maro stock to stock in my first post on this subject.

I posted an hour after you did on this topic, I dont care if you call me a troll sorry I dont live on this forum like you do... I work, have other things to do. All of my posts are in this thread and let me say it again so you can see it and understand it....I DONT OWN A FORD, Who cares if Ive only posted on this topic? Not too many other "Resturants" have topics that Im interested in right now I never said that GM was god but when Ignorant mustang people start flappin there mouths about a motor they dont know then I have to say something. Did you not realize one of your people claimed that the mod motor has less moving parts than a LSX? Do you realize how f'in stupid that is? And then his defense is "im not talking about valves or cams, I mean pushrods..you know things that cause parasitic loss" WTF?

 

[mustangmanjeff]

So what about the headers? there def not cast iron manifolds and Ford didnt put them on the motor because they are super cost effective or easy to manufacture. They put them on because they wanted to get as many ponys out of this motor N/A since they knew what the competition was. Thats great that there on the motor from the factory but it also tells you they are approaching the limits of what that Motor will produce in a factory form minus a supercharger. The same could be said when the ls6 motor came out with sodium filled valves. When the factory goes to hot rodder tricks for power then the easy stuff has already been used.

Your right that the overall car is a good bang for the buck. I also said that the mustang would beat a ls3 maro stock to stock in my first post on this subject.

I posted an hour after you did on this topic, I dont care if you call me a troll sorry I dont live on this forum like you do... I work, have other things to do. All of my posts are in this thread and let me say it again so you can see it and understand it....I DONT OWN A FORD, Who cares if Ive only posted on this topic? Not too many other "Resturants" have topics that Im interested in right now I never said that GM was god but when Ignorant mustang people start flappin there mouths about a motor they dont know then I have to say something. Did you not realize one of your people claimed that the mod motor has less moving parts than a LSX? Do you realize how f'in stupid that is? And then his defense is "im not talking about valves or cams, I mean pushrods..you know things that cause parasitic loss" WTF?

I will agree with you about the idiot who said about less moving parts HAHAHA:bash:

 

[Butters916]

I will agree with you about the idiot who said about less moving parts HAHAHA:bash:

Im not gonna lie, when that guy said that I was LMFAO! I had to keep reading it over again to make sure my eyes werent playing tricks on me.:beer:

 

[97desertCobra]

So what about the headers? there def not cast iron manifolds and Ford didnt put them on the motor because they are super cost effective or easy to manufacture. They put them on because they wanted to get as many ponys out of this motor N/A since they knew what the competition was. Thats great that there on the motor from the factory but it also tells you they are approaching the limits of what that Motor will produce in a factory form minus a supercharger. The same could be said when the ls6 motor came out with sodium filled valves. When the factory goes to hot rodder tricks for power then the easy stuff has already been used.

Your right that the overall car is a good bang for the buck. I also said that the mustang would beat a ls3 maro stock to stock in my first post on this subject.

I posted an hour after you did on this topic, I dont care if you call me a troll sorry I dont live on this forum like you do... I work, have other things to do. All of my posts are in this thread and let me say it again so you can see it and understand it....I DONT OWN A FORD, Who cares if Ive only posted on this topic? Not too many other "Resturants" have topics that Im interested in right now I never said that GM was god but when Ignorant mustang people start flappin there mouths about a motor they dont know then I have to say something. Did you not realize one of your people claimed that the mod motor has less moving parts than a LSX? Do you realize how f'in stupid that is? And then his defense is "im not talking about valves or cams, I mean pushrods..you know things that cause parasitic loss" WTF?

Yes I live on this forum.:rollseyes I've been an active member since March 2007 so it should be no suprise that I have over 2000 posts. I also CONTRIBUTE good information all throughout this forum. You have made some 30 posts in the last 15 days which would give you 2 posts per day which is were I am at :bored:. I also have a full time job, school, workout routine, girlfriend etc.:rollseyes

I love how you say "my people" as if I know any one on here personally or that one speaks for all!:lol: There are just as many ignorant Ford owners as there are GM owners, Honda owners etc. However SVTP has more open minded members than any other forum I've ever visited. I like nearly anything as long as its fast. Only reason I drive a 97 Procharged Cobra is because at the time I bought it(2006) it was in my price range and a good bang for the buck. I didn't get an F-body because I personally don't like the styling of them. Looks too much like a cat fish if you ask me. But the LS1 is a great engine and forced Ford to step up their game.

 

[Butters916]

Yes I live on this forum.:rollseyes I've been an active member since March 2007 so it should be no suprise that I have over 2000 posts. I also CONTRIBUTE good information all throughout this forum. You have made some 30 posts in the last 15 days which would give you 2 posts per day which is were I am at :bored:. I also have a full time job, school, workout routine, girlfriend etc.:rollseyes

I love how you say "my people" as if I know any one on here personally or that one speaks for all!:lol: There are just as many ignorant Ford owners as there are GM owners, Honda owners etc. However SVTP has more open minded members than any other forum I've ever visited. I like nearly anything as long as its fast. Only reason I drive a 97 Procharged Cobra is because at the time I bought it(2006) it was in my price range and a good bang for the buck. I didn't get an F-body because I personally don't like the styling of them. Looks too much like a cat fish if you ask me. But the LS1 is a great engine and forced Ford to step up their game.

I agree that there are just as many GM idiots as there are Ford idiots and as long as we all hold tight against the ricers im ok with that:rockon:. One reason that I like SVTP is the fact that it is a great place for info on newer Fords and the fact that they have a street racing section is awesome cause most sites dont. I have always liked the SN95 body style, especially the cobras because they sound great and have a great front end (love the foglights) and they look great with a nice set of rims. Im not Anti-Ford, I was a Ford Tech and I bought the 05 Mustang GT right when they first came out. I loved the sound of that car and the looks were great too. Eventually a job change and the new car payments forced me to sell which I then later found a 2000 WS6 and later sold it. I picked up the Camaro off a friend of mine for a really good deal and I wasnt crazy about the looks (they do look like a catfish) but over time they grew on me. I realized that im more of a performance and bang for the buck mods kinda guy than going to car shows and cruising for chicks. Im glad that Ford came out with this engine so close #s wise to the LS3 because that might spur the development of a more powerful engine and vise versa..Rumor is the Z/28 is a go with the LSA engine from the CTS-V and hopefully both companies keep bumping the horsepower because we all benefit from it.

 

[mustangmanjeff]

Im not gonna lie, when that guy said that I was LMFAO! I had to keep reading it over again to make sure my eyes werent playing tricks on me.:beer:

yeah that was pretty stupid lol and I do agree with you on some points, the 1st few pages I sat back and read it was gm nut swingers and guys that only like fords saying dumb shit for so many pages, then I had to join in these last 2 pages it was comical lol

 

[mustangmanjeff]

Yes I live on this forum.:rollseyes I've been an active member since March 2007 so it should be no suprise that I have over 2000 posts. I also CONTRIBUTE good information all throughout this forum. You have made some 30 posts in the last 15 days which would give you 2 posts per day which is were I am at :bored:. I also have a full time job, school, workout routine, girlfriend etc.:rollseyes

I love how you say "my people" as if I know any one on here personally or that one speaks for all!:lol: There are just as many ignorant Ford owners as there are GM owners, Honda owners etc. However SVTP has more open minded members than any other forum I've ever visited. I like nearly anything as long as its fast. Only reason I drive a 97 Procharged Cobra is because at the time I bought it(2006) it was in my price range and a good bang for the buck. I didn't get an F-body because I personally don't like the styling of them. Looks too much like a cat fish if you ask me. But the LS1 is a great engine and forced Ford to step up their game.

:thumbsup:

 

[meaty mac]

The really sad thing is that even GM had an OHC motor that made 400 hp before Ford and that was 20 years ago. oke:

No the really sad thing is that GM had to pay to get Lotus to design and Mercury Marine to build it. And even then they were more expensive than a house lol. They had nothing to do with it, other than writing a cheque. Try again.

Oh yeah- oke:


BTW- You do remember the Ford/Holman Moody 427 SOHC right? I think that was a little earlier than the '90 ZR1 no?

Again- oke:

 

[Formula51]

V8's were not invented by American auto companies.

Cadillac (GM) released the first American V8. Chevrolet (GM) released the second American V8. Ford was third with the Flathead. Great for it's time, but a piece of shit today. Oldsmobile (GM, getting the picture yet?) introduced the first OHV V8, the kind we're all familiar with. When Chevrolet released the SBC in 1955 it's impact proved to be FAR, FAR greater than the old Ford boat anchor. The LSx is an evolution of that design, and it's still kicking butt today in pretty much every category worth comparing.

Saw a Top Gear episode where they were in search of the first car to have the controls (clutch, brake, gas, shifter) laid out as they are today. The first car to do with was Cadillac (forgot the car model). Caddy really was pretty cutting edge back in the day and it has been cool to see them get back to that some here recently.

 

[Formula51]

No the really sad thing is that GM had to pay to get Lotus to design and Mercury Marine to build it. And even then they were more expensive than a house lol. They had nothing to do with it, other than writing a cheque. Try again.

Oh yeah- oke:


BTW- You do remember the Ford/Holman Moody 427 SOHC right? I think that was a little earlier than the '90 ZR1 no?

Again- oke:

I'm not familiar with the Ford/Holman Moody 427 but I have always been pretty pleased with GM's Northstar engine.

The Northstar was making ~300hp NA from 4.6L in 1993. I have also read that the Northstar block is supposed to be capable of 5.4L.

The supercharged 4.4L Northstar also made nice power in the STS-V and XLR-V at 469hp and 443hp respectively. That was some pretty darn good power back in 2006 considering Ford debuted the GT500 in 2007 with 500hp from their 5.4L.

The point in all this is that GM and Ford both build great engines. They both have the ability to buld quality OHC and OHV engines. Each company decides which is the best way for them to meet market demand, price, sales targets, CAFE standards, etc. Currently GM thinks its best solution is the OHV V8 and Ford thinks its is the OHC V8. The beauty is that each company has he ability to change this perspective as time passes and things evolve. Thats what keeps us car guys reading, tinkering, racing, arguing, and generally enjoying life:beer:

 

[97desertCobra]

I agree that there are just as many GM idiots as there are Ford idiots and as long as we all hold tight against the ricers im ok with that:rockon:. One reason that I like SVTP is the fact that it is a great place for info on newer Fords and the fact that they have a street racing section is awesome cause most sites dont. I have always liked the SN95 body style, especially the cobras because they sound great and have a great front end (love the foglights) and they look great with a nice set of rims. Im not Anti-Ford, I was a Ford Tech and I bought the 05 Mustang GT right when they first came out. I loved the sound of that car and the looks were great too. Eventually a job change and the new car payments forced me to sell which I then later found a 2000 WS6 and later sold it. I picked up the Camaro off a friend of mine for a really good deal and I wasnt crazy about the looks (they do look like a catfish) but over time they grew on me. I realized that im more of a performance and bang for the buck mods kinda guy than going to car shows and cruising for chicks. Im glad that Ford came out with this engine so close #s wise to the LS3 because that might spur the development of a more powerful engine and vise versa..Rumor is the Z/28 is a go with the LSA engine from the CTS-V and hopefully both companies keep bumping the horsepower because we all benefit from it.

:beer:

 

[mustangmanjeff]

quote=Formula51;9280857]I'm not familiar with the Ford/Holman Moody 427 but I have always been pretty pleased with GM's Northstar engine.

The Northstar was making ~300hp NA from 4.6L in 1993. I have also read that the Northstar block is supposed to be capable of 5.4L.

The supercharged 4.4L Northstar also made nice power in the STS-V and XLR-V at 469hp and 443hp respectively. That was some pretty darn good power back in 2006 considering Ford debuted the GT500 in 2007 with 500hp from their 5.4L.

The point in all this is that GM and Ford both build great engines. They both have the ability to buld quality OHC and OHV engines. Each company decides which is the best way for them to meet market demand, price, sales targets, CAFE standards, etc. Currently GM thinks its best solution is the OHV V8 and Ford thinks its is the OHC V8. The beauty is that each company has he ability to change this perspective as time passes and things evolve. Thats what keeps us car guys reading, tinkering, racing, arguing, and generally enjoying life quote]



x2 Very well said :beer: this is why I love cars :rockon: