05 Stang and Ford 500 have the same frame?

[HotRodHarry]

Talkin about exhaust..man..I saw a price of like 450.00 bucks for the 2005 Mustang GT. It was just the 2 mufflers with the little extensions and two 10 inch length pieces that connect to the rear part of the exhaust....only behind the axle area.....man..thats alot of money for basically two mufflers....Like being a Vette guy...

 

[rezcobra]

Originally posted by HotRodHarry
Talkin about exhaust..man..I saw a price of like 450.00 bucks for the 2005 Mustang GT. It was just the 2 mufflers with the little extensions and two 10 inch length pieces that connect to the rear part of the exhaust....only behind the axle area.....man..thats alot of money for basically two mufflers....Like being a Vette guy...

My thoughts exactly when I see the ads for those mufflers. The exhaust tubing is already 2.5 inches so in reality all you need to do is mufflers for a 5 hp gain.

 

[cito]

Originally posted by FireRed04Vert
I think you're incorrect on that one. It IS on a Mazda based platform...which is based on the LS platform in some ways. There are plenty of articles out there stating that Ford wanted to use the LS platform for the new Mustang, but couldn't because their current 4.6 4v (and maybe the 3v???) won't fit! It would need a complete different front suspension. That is the singe largest reason the LS8 isn't supporting a 4.6 in some version or another. They wanted to use it because the Lincoln LS8 Sport is the single best handling mid priced sport sedan in the world. Period. However, the Mazda platform does support the different engine sizes.

So you're all correct...and wrong. It's a combination of both of them.

Where are you guys getting this Mazda crap? :rollseyes

 

[KevinB120]

cripes where do you guys come up with this crap??? :rollseyes

Here is the no bullshit story.

500/Freestyle are loosely based on the P2 Volvo platform from the S60/S80/XC90. Ford took the entire platform and stretched and pulled it to fit thier needs. No two parts fit between Ford and Volvo. The new platform uses a unique body strenghening called SPACE architecture, which utilizes very large crossmembers under the front seats, in the roof, and between the strut towers. This makes the vehicle some 30% stronger then Volvo(s). Engine is the standard duratec 30, transmissions include both a 6 speed and CVT auto. SE FWD and all AWD use the CVT, built by VT and uses a steel LuK belt(the same critical part Audi uses). The 6 speed is used in the SEL and LTD FWD models. It is the exact same auto used in the Volkswagon Toureg luxo SUV. The only reason the 6 speed is used is simply there is not enough CVT's to go around. The AWD system is a Haldex system directly taken from Volvo. It is one of the best in the business, able to deliver 100% torque to any one wheel and measures for slippage every 1/7th revolution on each wheel individually.

As for sedan rumors.........Current rumor is that the 500 gets a new face as early as 06 implementing the 'three-bar' grille(ala 427), and the much more powerfull Duratec 35 bows as well(thank god). J Mays has confirmed the 500 will be restyled almost 'immediately' into the new 3-bar future Ford 'familly' look, this was planned from day one. The 500 is by no means the production 427 concept in living form. The next 'Vic has three completely different senarios(500 based, stretched S197, or revised Panther) in the works. Most likely the next Vic will be the "427"-ish car using a stretched 05 stang platform and able to use the 6.2 hurricane V8. The Fusion comes out of the hole next year with the 'three bar' look.

05 Mustang was originally going to be based on the DEW98(LS) platform, but after reviewing strength issues with the 'vert(the T-bird has a bulkhead that only works on a 2 seater) AND the SLA front suspension would not fit the larger 4.6/5.4 within the bay, it was scrapped. The only componets kept were the front engine rails, half of the forward floorboard, and the saddle gas tank. Everything else was completely changed. The platform for the Mustang is officialy called S197 and is exclusive only to that car. It is the FIRST Mustang EVER to have its own platform. All underbody structure and suspension bits are exclusive, as well as (of course) the upper shell. The vehicle is built at the new Allied Automotive Plant in Flat Rock MI using the new Flexible Assembly Line technique. Mustangs are built on the SAME line, fully mixed in with the Mazda 6. Both cars are engineered to share many fasteners, but NO mechanical componets. Its an amazing facility.

The DEW98 was scrapped very early on, almost immediately in 2000. The car was very far along by 2001 and pretty much settled by 2002. The 2003 show car(the silver and red ones) WERE actually based on the DEW98 platform but actually used modified PRODUCTION pieces for the body. The press picked up on these one-time-only cars' platform and made WAY too much stink about it. Ford played the press like a fiddle allong the way, no information leaked without it being known, even the walleye distorted pics of the "white" mule that leaked about this time last year. They have been fantastic at covering up this car, as we all know by the 4895 Cobra rumors floating around without one iota of confirmed details yet. Funny enough, the Fusion is production ready and only a couple camo'd pics are out there, and that is a mainstream midsize sedan.

The upcoming Ford Fusion sedan WILL share the Mazda 6 platform, allong with the Lincoln Zypher entry-level sport sedan. Fords current story is that the Zypher will be awd capeable from day one, with the Fusion following suit in a few years. It is expected(but not confirmed) that the new Duratec 35 will see duty in them(allong with the 500/Freestyle next year) Both should arrive next summer, they will be ready for the public in production form at the NAIAS in Detroit this January.

As for more platform confusion, the Mazda 3 and Volvo S40 use the 05 European Focus platform(C1) that first showed on the Ford C-MAX in Europe last year. They do not use the current US Focus underpinnings. Ford has not decided to use this platform for the domestic version of the car, and still says officially the next Focus(07) will use its own platform-although its doubtfull.

You can see where the mistakes between what is mazda/ford/lincoln come from.

As for the muffler debacle, most cars have them out back, there are only a handfull left that do not, most of them older designs(the old Monaro is a good example). The packaging of the saddle fuel tank under the rear seat for safety(rather then the age old under the trunk design), and better balance forces them out to the rear of the car. The reverse of that statement forced mufflers under the car for that very reason. That was old-school. It is definately time to get un-used the 1978 Ford Fairmont. Big brakes with vented rear rotors, 31 spline axles, two-piece colapsable driveshafts, 2.5" full mandrel-bent exhaust, variable valve timing with an all aluminum engine, etc are just a few of the things you have to look forward to, and for less money then last year.


Any questions?..............

 

[KevinB120]

its a mazda platform face it and accept the fact . that why the exsuast mufflers come out from behind the rear axle just like the mazda 6. ford does not build two different platforms in the same plant anymore. to think of it ford does not even use a ford enginered platform anymore only the frame stuctures on f150 and lincoln and grand marquez.

Holy duh moly batman :read: The only non-Ford designed platform that wears the blue oval in the US is not out yet. It will be the Fusion, and only basic structure at that. Nearly 20 models in the entire Ford family will use the core Mazda 6 platform over the next 5 years. Its also a platform that Ford payed the tab to have developed to start with.

 

[Whiskey City]

The upcoming Ford Fusion sedan WILL share the Mazda 6 platform, allong with the Lincoln Zypher entry-level sport sedan. Fords current story is that the Zypher will be awd capeable from day one, with the Fusion following suit in a few years. It is expected(but not confirmed) that the new Duratec 35 will see duty in them(allong with the 500/Freestyle next year) Both should arrive next summer, they will be ready for the public in production form at the NAIAS in Detroit this January..

That was a great post Kevin. I can confirm everything you said...except for one tiny thing. I've been looking at the new Fusion/Zypher/(mercury whatever) and all the ones that have been through chassis and trim have the Duratec 30 (sorry). Not that 200hp is a bad thing in a car of that size but that's what's in them as of today.

BTW, they are pretty nice cars inside and out. There are, of course, some things that I don't particularly like, but as a total package it's a pretty cool little sedan. I'd definately trade my '03 Pinkly Taurus for one.

 

[KevinB120]

That was a great post Kevin. I can confirm everything you said...except for one tiny thing. I've been looking at the new Fusion/Zypher/(mercury whatever) and all the ones that have been through chassis and trim have the Duratec 30 (sorry). Not that 200hp is a bad thing in a car of that size but that's what's in them as of today.

BTW, they are pretty nice cars inside and out. There are, of course, some things that I don't particularly like, but as a total package it's a pretty cool little sedan. I'd definately trade my '03 Pinkly Taurus for one.

Ford has been super-quiet about the 35 because they have needed a 250hp+ V6 for SO long its painfull to work as a ford salesman. Ford wont say anything about it because of all the 203hp vehicles now for sale on lots that should have more power, it would sell a ton more cars if they could compete in that regard, and would make the 500 world-class. The 35 is virtually the exact same size engine, so it would fit easilly. They just dont want to look like they are admitting a industry-wide weak hp(a mind boggling gap if you ask me) by making too big a stink about it right now. I never understood why Ford has wimped out on this for years, this should of been available in 2000. Hopefully this ass-dragging delay means the 35 will be a silky smooth engine and not just a bore job.

 

[Whiskey City]

Ford has been super-quiet about the 35 because they have needed a 250hp+ V6 for SO long its painfull to work as a ford salesman. Ford wont say anything about it because of all the 203hp vehicles now for sale on lots that should have more power, it would sell a ton more cars if they could compete in that regard, and would make the 500 world-class. The 35 is virtually the exact same size engine, so it would fit easilly. They just dont want to look like they are admitting a industry-wide weak hp(a mind boggling gap if you ask me) by making too big a stink about it right now. I never understood why Ford has wimped out on this for years, this should of been available in 2000. Hopefully this ass-dragging delay means the 35 will be a silky smooth engine and not just a bore job.

Another thing, though. The vehicles I'm looking at are still in the prototype phase so there very well may be a 35 in them by the time they're in full production.

The D30, IMO, is ok in that small car for now. Hell, it's much better than that Vulcan POS that's in my '03 Pinkly right now, sheesh!

 

[Lawman85]

I heard Ford was making an SUV based off of the Mustang and using a Volvo SUV frame. Anyone else hear that?

 

[KevinB120]

I heard Ford was making an SUV based off of the Mustang and using a Volvo SUV frame. Anyone else hear that?

Volvo suv's do not HAVE frames, they are unit-body crossovers, the 500/Freestyle is already based on it. Thats a pretty stupid rumor. A honda pushrod 8.0L V10 civic is about as possible.

Only SUV on the docket is one listed for the 07 model year as a 'compact unnamed suv'. Think Bronco. 06 Explorer gets full makeover inside and out, 07 the exped gets it, and adds the XL to replace excursion. Both get the 3 bar treatment. 07-08 superduty gets the new body(everything else was just changed for 05). Most likely the 6.2 hurricane bows in 07, followed in a year by the lightning with a big-block.

 

[harry gilbert]

I needed a good laugh for the day...
...(snip)...
Oh, and the mufflers are placed where they are, behind the axle, to make them easier to change out, according to the engineers who spoke.

That sure gave me a good laugh. The muffler placement was to make it easier to swap out the mufflers? HA HA HA HA :lol: Do you REALLY believe that explanation? If so, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[KevinB120]

That sure gave me a good laugh. The muffler placement was to make it easier to swap out the mufflers? HA HA HA HA :lol: Do you REALLY believe that explanation? If so, I've got a bridge to sell you.

The main reason is that the Mustang is finally a modern car. Modern cars have the gas tanks midships for safety, hence no room for mufflers. Name one advantage of a muffler being under the car, and more interior noise is not considered a design advangage. They use 2.5" mandrel bent pipes now, there is virtually no reason to have to replace pipes anymore. Now its a piece of cake to mod the car. Welcome to the 21st century. The Jimmy Carter days of car design are finally over.

 

[harry gilbert]

The main reason is that the Mustang is finally a modern car. Modern cars have the gas tanks midships for safety, hence no room for mufflers. Name one advantage of a muffler being under the car, and more interior noise is not considered a design advangage. They use 2.5" mandrel bent pipes now, there is virtually no reason to have to replace pipes anymore. Now its a piece of cake to mod the car. Welcome to the 21st century. The Jimmy Carter days of car design are finally over.

Wasn't disagreeing with you, just the opinion that muffler placement was to facilitate swap out.

 

[DAVESVT2000]

Well, what KevinB120 said was also mentioned by the engineers, but they then smiled and said it also makes them easier to change out, no more having to go over or under the rear end. That is the point I was trying to make....

 

[KevinB120]

Well, what KevinB120 said was also mentioned by the engineers, but they then smiled and said it also makes them easier to change out, no more having to go over or under the rear end. That is the point I was trying to make....

I cant wait untill Basanni comes out with a set of fully pollished SS blowboxes. HOOOOOOOOOOOOWLLLLLLLLLLL :rockon: Its going to be great to simply put on mufflers and welded on tips without the entire friggin pipe. Even the shipping will be cheaper

 

[8ate8]

Ford has been super-quiet about the 35 because they have needed a 250hp+ V6 for SO long its painfull to work as a ford salesman.

Yea, the word 'forever' comes into mind. Especially my 96 tbird 145hp 3.8l v6. And that's a step up from the 140hp 3.8l v6 in the 83-95 thunderbirds.