2011 gt500...aluminum block?
- Thread starter svtseeker
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Yes I have proven ... the fact that all other things being equal a high comp motor will make more power that a low comp. And you just confirmed it for me by stating above that if you cant and more boost then add compression to make more power.
Dont need an opening to back pedal because what you wrote was exactly what i meant the first time around. A high cr motor and a low motor with the same boost level... the high cr motor will make more power.
Why is this: "high CR + low boost vs low CR vs high boost" common sense? Besides that has nothing to do with F8L original claim. For the 100th time he was talkin about if both engines had an equal amount of boost.
And you say it again here:
LOL, this is a mess. i'll just clarify my point again; with the same fuel type used, low compression + high boost = more power than high compression + low boost, both tuned to their max safe limit(or max limit in general, or what have you. bascially, equivalent tunes), based on the fact that superchargers and turbo chargers are much more efficient at compressing air than a piston is. more efficient = lower temp = more power. [/QUOTE]
Your point is irrelevent because your point is not the focus of what F8L original topic was. You keep stating high boost and low boost.. BUT GO BACK AND READDDDDDDDDDDD WHAT F8L wrote originaly. He said all things equal excluding the CR. Therefore why do you keep mentioning low comp + high boost vs high comp + low boost?? He's talkin about being at the SAME boost levels so stop with the low boost high boost.
Like I stated, that drawing is nothing more then a simple illustration. The numbers are used as a way of quantifying the drawing and for comparative purposes. I think you are smart enough to comprehend the physics involved but somehow you are refusing to acknowledge the basic principal. Your fire cracker theory is a very poor example that does not take into account the point where compression combustions occurs in a gasoline fueled internal combustion engine which is the major limiting factor we are discussing. If that was not the case and there was no limit on how much you can compress the charge then I would agree, a higher compression engine will make more power. Unfortunately we are stuck with the level we can compress the charge before detonation occurs.
That drawing I produced pretty much sums up the whole story. I know you have a very good understanding of what is going on here and given the choice would think long and hard on what direction you would take in building an FI engine. Something tells me you won’t be installing high compression slugs in your GT500 at rebuild time. I don't know anyway other way to explain this any simpler then I already have and to do otherwise would be redundant.
:beer:
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WTF are you talkin about? How could he of lost sight of the topic? He's the one that started the damn topic. Your the one who went off on a crazy tangent and started changing varialbes.
High compression motor + 20lbs boost + c16 = more power than a low compression motor + 20lbs boost + c16.
What part of all things considers equal do you and RY not understand?
And he wasn't talking about what the factory does. He was strictly talking about what would make the most power. The Factory isn't looking for max power.. they are looking for a boosted motor that will run on pump gas. A low compression boosted motor is obviously better for mass produced vehicles. But it is in no ways indicative that a low comp motor will make more power.
Another well stated post, Gojira. We're all just interpretting "All other things being equal" differently. F8L intended that to mean same boost pressure, same fuel, same everything except CR. RY and SlowSVT interpretted "All other things being equal" to mean that you could change everything (boost, timing, etc.) on the low compression car to maximize power. I don't know how that qualifies as "All other things being equal", but that is their interpretation. So be it.
It's kinda funny how everyone can be right in a conversation and still argue about it. I tried to explain to my wife last night what this conversation was about. She isn't much of a car person, so I had to put it in non-technical terms.
F8L said, "2+2 = 4"
Ry and Slow said, "No, you've got it wrong... 2+2+1 = 5
They're both right. They all know what they're talking about. They're just considering different equations. Ry and Slow are just comparing their equation (2+2+1) with F8L's solution (4) and calling it wrong.
F8L, since you lit this fire, why don't you start the thread in Blower Bistro so we can continue.
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Im still trying to figure out how Gojira knew what kind of compression Chip and I ran on our renegade motors and I didnt?
Thanks
Bob Kurgan
Thanks
Bob Kurgan
Mr Kurgan I can not speak for where he got his numbers from. My numbers in respect to the 2 I mentioned came from race pages and 5.0/superford. BTW if you could possible PM(or on nmradigital) me on cost of a proshifted tranny for a modular in Real Street. I would appreciat it Thanks (off topic again I know)
Out of respect for the OP, bruce and anyone clicking on this page to find information about the 2011 having a Al. block. Please continue on here: Thanks
To the Blower Bistro we go.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-compression-ratio-affects-supercharging.html
Out of respect for the OP, bruce and anyone clicking on this page to find information about the 2011 having a Al. block. Please continue on here: Thanks
To the Blower Bistro we go.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-compression-ratio-affects-supercharging.html
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we've run high compression in many TURBOCHARGED INTERCOOLED motors with great succes... but I can tell you with experience that high compression in a renegade motor at 300degrees IAT doesnt work very well... even my Drag radial/Extreme Street motor that i run now has compression in the 8s..
the way i see it is not what creates more power but what combination creates the most power while keeping the engine reliable at the same time.
yes adding compression increases power. but this also increases stress on the motor. yes high compression can put more stress on the engine than high horsepower.
is a low compression high boost 1500hp motor more reliable than high compression low boost 1500hp motor? based on 04cobradude responses i would say the low compression motor would create more power reliably!
i dont under stand you high comp guys thinking its makes more power S/C than a low Comp S/C. put the same type of S/C on a Z06 high comp and the GT500 low comp and why does the GT500 still make more power and wont break. can one of you guys please explain.
Ok, I've been reading some of this damn thread and I have a scenario that I would like answered.
Two almost identical 5.4L 500 engines, one with 8.5:1 cr and one with 10:1 cr. Same pulley, etc. Which makes more?
I would think the higher cr one, but I'm all mixed up now.
Two almost identical 5.4L 500 engines, one with 8.5:1 cr and one with 10:1 cr. Same pulley, etc. Which makes more?
I would think the higher cr one, but I'm all mixed up now.
I don't think you can make that a fair argument. Way too many differences in the motor configurations. A s/c LS7 will will make more than a s/c 5.4, assuming both have the same pulleys.
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my arguement is that the low comp, WITH HIGHER BOOST AND AN APPROPRIATE TUNE, will make more power because the supercharger is a more eifficient device at compressing air than a piston is. more efficient = lower temps = more power. this has been my arguement from the start, but there are a few selective readers in hear that LOVE to 'out of context' people(not F8L, that was just a misunderstanding).
i would also say the higher comp.
but the next question would be having both of these engines making approximately the same horsepower(lets say 800rwhp, lower comp 5.4 would be hitting more boost i presume), what one would last longer and be more durable?
i would think it would be the lower compression one.
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thats what im getting at. the 5.4 low Comp will be able to add more boost an timing therefore be able to make more power because of it. where the LS7 would be stuck at low boost an timing to even give the motor a chance to last. now lets say they both use a very low boost an low timing the LS7 would prolly have more power because it hard more power to start with. but either way you could never get on a fair playing field between the 2 because they both have there advanges and disadvanges. the whole point of it is, a new 5.0L with 11.1 comp. will not be able to have good boost level and good timing when S/C, meaning it would not be able to hang with a 5.0/5.4 with low comp. and S/C. end of story.
me32-Fuel is still a large limiting factor. Which this is still breaking away from my orignal point. That example is comparing 2 different engine designs. Even cylinder head combustion chamber shape comes into play as to fighting off detonation(along with spark plug location and cylinder head material). Take for instance a 2v vrs a 4v. Even based using the same C/R a 4v will take more boost/timing before it runs into detonation issues. This will be the last post in this thread from me.
We have started a new thread on this subject in the blower Bistro. Where we will be discussing some of the finer points of its affects as we go along. It may become technical but hopefully be edjucational for everyone involved.
Here is the link again:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-compression-ratio-affects-supercharging.html
We have started a new thread on this subject in the blower Bistro. Where we will be discussing some of the finer points of its affects as we go along. It may become technical but hopefully be edjucational for everyone involved.
Here is the link again:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-compression-ratio-affects-supercharging.html
Good post blksn8k.
I know Ford was strongly considering using the new 'Spray Bore' technology on the new 2011 GT500 5.4 aluminum engine block. I wouldn't at all be surprised if that is indeed what it will be.
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Is this the thread for the 2011 GT500? How did we get into such a stupid argument?
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