2013 SVT Mustang Shelby GT500 650HP 5.8L Engine Cut-Away Pics

[x99blacksnakex]

[1] "like it or not"? that's what i said, it was a compromise.

[2] as Tob mentioned, it is a niche built vehicle. not sure what that would have to do with the parts going on/into it. BTW, the 03/04 pistons are worse than the GT500's rods.

[3] let me say it again; the rods support ~1000HP at the crankshaft/~800HP at the rear wheels. please, how in the hell is that 'skimping'??? that is OVER ENGINEERING, plain and simple. for an engine that makes between 500 and 650HP from the facotry, rods capable of supporting ~1000HP are OVERKILL.

[4] the rods are capable of supporting ~50% more power than the engine produces stock in the '07-'09 GT500. they are capable of supporting ~35% more power than the engine produces stock in the '13 application. ~35% is ADEQUATE?!?!?!?!
BTW, the "safe limit" of 800RWHP is based on twin screw cars; I.E., low end torque, massive power under the curve cars. not turbo cars.

[5] IT CAN SUPPORT 1000 CRANK HORSEPOWER. 1000HP is 1000HP, regardless if it's at 6250RPM or 7000RPM.

[6] i really don't understand where your coming from at all. these aren't brand new rods, they are 99% identical to what has been in the car since the original 2007 model. if "the first owner to use a setup that makes that much power" spins it to 7000RPM, then it is out of 100% pure ignorance/stupidity, because we've known for YEARS that this isn't a good idea. thus, that jackass that throws a rod through the block is irrelevant, because there will be others with some semblance of intelligence that will match his HP at a lower RPM and they will have an engine that survives perfectly fine.


again, name another car that can support 800RWHP on the stock short block. you're not gonna find one under $90k. yet the internals of this engine have been "skimped":rollseyes

In comparison to the other components, YES, they used adequate rods. It's like building a house out of 3" steel plates, installing the best security system money has to offer, and then using a Fisher Price lock.

Rod strength is RPM dependent. I'll explain the physics to you:

As RPM increases, piston speed increases. As such, changes in direction - ie. when the piston is at TDC and begins to move towards BDC - cause the piston to accelerate very quickly. As we all know F = ma, in it's most simplified form.

Since the movement of a piston in the cylinder over time is indeed sinusoidal. Thus the peak acceleration of the piston is the instantaneous moment at TDC.

How is this affected by RPM you ask? The force of the piston creates a tensile force on the rod, literally stretching the rod, and deforming it elastically.

Since piston speed increases exponentially with RPM, the force on the rod does as well. This also means the rod stretches in accordance with the speed of the piston and the force it exerts on the rod.

At lower RPM, there may be more torque applied to the piston, however the rod will not be stressed as much by the piston's movement. Since the maximum velocity of the piston occurs at approximately 40-50% of the length of the stroke of the motor; depending on rod to stroke ratio.

Thus the changes in velocity and acceleration are increased exponentially with RPM, even at similar power levels. This means the rod sees a higher peak amplitude between tension and loading moments. The rod is thus subjected to more fatigue, and higher forces vs. the number of cycles it is put through. In engineering terms, higher RPM puts the rod in higher jeopardy of yielding, or failing completely

So to prove my point: 700 horsepower is not the same at 6250 RPM as it is at 7000 RPM.

 

[91svtbird]

Definition of SKIMP

transitive verb
: to give insufficient or barely sufficient attention or effort

The rod in these cars (07-13) is engineered way beyond the application it is used in period. These rods are at least capable of supporting 800hp tuned correctly....even in the 2013 model which is rated at 650HP that is well beyond any definition of the word "skimp".




"]ex·ces·sive adj \ik-ˈse-siv\
: exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal

Using you train of thought one could even say these rods are "excessive". lol

 

[x99blacksnakex]

Definition of SKIMP

transitive verb
: to give insufficient or barely sufficient attention or effort

The rod in these cars (07-13) is engineered way beyond the application it is used in period. These rods are at least capable of supporting 800hp tuned correctly....even in the 2013 model which is rated at 650HP that is well beyond any definition of the word "skimp".




"]ex·ces·sive adj \ik-ˈse-siv\
: exceeding what is usual, proper, necessary, or normal

Using you train of thought one could even say these rods are "excessive". lol

Please read my post again. Refer to the part where I said, "Compared to the other components used in the Trinity motor, yes the rods were skimped on."

Like Tob said, when you use a Kellogg forged crank, and Mahle forged pistons, powdered metal rods are less adequate in comparison. Thus, yes Ford skimped on the rods compared to the quality of other components used in the motor.

 

[mike69440]

^^^

Since order guides haven't been distributed yet, I wonder what the hold up is? It's very unlikely, but maybe there will be an option for use of the Manley rods. Thats mostly wishful thinking though.

Perhaps if Mr. Hameedi frequents these forums he'll reconsider the using the PM rods if we ask politely lol.

I would like to give my perspective on this, just if by chance anyone at SVT is following this thread. Perhaps the moderators could move it to the ask SVT thread?

I've owned my 03 Cobra since new. I've met a lot of fellow Cobra owners.
Only two owners out of hundreds chose to keep their car completely factory stock. A few just went with A CAI and a tune. Maybe 60% went with Pulley tune CAI Exhaust etc and kept the Heaton. I'd guess at least 25-30% upped the blower, never mind the few sickos’ with turbos!
I had that warm fuzzy feeling about the rods, crank etc when I installed my conservative 2.3 Whipple. What kept me conservative were piston fear and loathing and concern over cylinder head cooling. I just could not afford engine failure. My only supporting mods are tune. CAI, Injectors MAF TB, BAP Exhaust, and upgraded Radiator and HE. (I'm really glad to see that SVT paid attention to cooling with the 13 GT500)
My experience is that the majority of the guys who changed blowers think I'm a wimp, as most of that 25-30% 03 modders are in the +600 RWHP range.
I don't think that makes a lot of sense, as a 03 Cobra's drive train handles 600 hp as well as a 013 GT500 would cope with +800 hp.

I don't think 13 GT500 owners will be mod adverse, even being handed an 11 second factory car.

My point is that I believe Ford would have a lot of takers on an "Engine Power Adder Durability Package" i.e. Rods, etc to support that 1000 RWHP number.
It would be good business sense.
Ford might take a lot of crap from the it's competition, but ought to be able to deflect all of that with the right marketing approach. "We build it your way"

I completely agree that 750 RWHP is more than enough for any RWD street car and that the PM rod's are fine, BUT.

Can we confirm the Trinity motor is still built on the niche line?

 

[91svtbird]

Please read my post again. Refer to the part where I said, "Compared to the other components used in the Trinity motor, yes the rods were skimped on."

Like Tob said, when you use a Kellogg forged crank, and Mahle forged pistons, powdered metal rods are less adequate in comparison. Thus, yes Ford skimped on the rods compared to the quality of other components used in the motor.

I read your post's and understand where you are coming from. That said, I look at the overall package not one part to another. I look at the overall target and goal of the package and it is absolutely awesome. Like nothing we've ever seen before in any Mustang. I think that's what you guys are missing. You are creating the impression that there is something wrong with these rods when that is far from the truth. Could they be even better sure. Could Ford have given us a bigger supercharger sure, but neither is needed and would only drive up the price.

Seriously, I do agree it would be nice if Ford would offer an Engine Niche line option to upgrade to the "CJ" forged rods. I have no idea what that would mean logistically speaking for Ford nor price wise for us consumers. Remember this is a mass produced car unlike the CJ' although the engine isn't so who knows.

 

[Fourcam330]

I think I'm going to have to grab one of these, what Ford has done at the price point is simply too good to pass up. Major props!

Also makes me think a Boss 351 is otw (yes I know it's 355 CI)

 

[jonesd]

Does anyone know if ford did anything else to the fuel system besides bigger injectors?

 

[SID297]

Does anyone know if ford did anything else to the fuel system besides bigger injectors?

It's basically all new.

 

[Snagged]

op:

 

[91svtbird]

Does anyone know if ford did anything else to the fuel system besides bigger injectors?

New plastic fuel tank, new pick-ups, new pumps,new injectors, and an all new highly capable Fuel Pump Driver Module.

 

[jonesd]

New plastic fuel tank, new pick-ups, new pumps,new injectors, and an all new highly capable Fuel Pump Driver Module.

That's awesome! Thanks for sharing that.

 

[91svtbird]

I think I'm going to have to grab one of these, what Ford has done at the price point is simply too good to pass up. Major props!

Also makes me think a Boss 351 is otw (yes I know it's 355 CI)

I agree Ford has done a fantastic job addressing every concern possible in the GT500 from a performance aspect. From aero to tailpipe and everything in between.

As far as seeing a Boss or any other car with this 5.8 engine, when asked Hameedi said "It will only be a GT500 engine." That said I fully expect it to be offered as a "crate" engine from FRPP.

 

[SID297]

I agree Ford has done a fantastic job addressing every concern possible in the GT500 from a performance aspect. From aero to tailpipe and everything in between.

As far as seeing a Boss or any other car with this 5.8 engine, when asked Hameedi said "It will only be a GT500 engine." That said I fully expect it to be offered as a "crate" engine from FRPP.

Very true, but there's a lot of low hanging fruit with the plasma wire technology and the Coyote engine architecture. Could see something new with a very familiar displacement in the future.

 

[91svtbird]

Very true, but there's a lot of low hanging fruit with the plasma wire technology and the Coyote engine architecture. Could see something new with a very familiar displacement in the future.

No doubt......I'm expecting to possibly in the next gen Stang....:rockon:

 

[crysalis_01]

I agree Ford has done a fantastic job addressing every concern possible in the GT500 from a performance aspect. From aero to tailpipe and everything in between.

As far as seeing a Boss or any other car with this 5.8 engine, when asked Hameedi said "It will only be a GT500 engine." That said I fully expect it to be offered as a "crate" engine from FRPP.

That's almost a given. But Im going to say that we'll have to wait rill FRPP exhausts its current 5.4 supply. Or at least tuntil they're almost complely sold out. They may be sold along side one another but my question is:

If they're sold at the same time will the Condors get a slight discount, or will the Trinities come in at a much higher price to keep the 5.4's moving out?

 

[91svtbird]

That's almost a given. But Im going to say that we'll have to wait rill FRPP exhausts its current 5.4 supply. Or at least tuntil they're almost complely sold out. They may be sold along side one another but my question is:

If they're sold at the same time will the Condors get a slight discount, or will the Trinities come in at a much higher price to keep the 5.4's moving out?

I would expect the 5.8's to be priced somewhat higher (maybe 1- 2K more) than the 5.4's because of the TVS , larger oil pan, GTcam's , pistons, stellite coated valves & seats and other improvements etc.

 

[IcebourgGT500]

Very true, but there's a lot of low hanging fruit with the plasma wire technology and the Coyote engine architecture. Could see something new with a very familiar displacement in the future.

There is always something better coming down the pipe.........Keep up the good work SVT.:burnout::burnout::burnout::burnout::beer:

 

[FORDSVTPARTS]

- Higher capacity fuel rail
- larger intercooler
- sodium filled exhaust valves?

Anyone there comment on the new TVS baseplate bolt centers? Will the pattern allow retrofit to the older 5.4 lower intake manifold?

And I can't believe Ford would have gone back to ~2005 era, GT camshafts. Are these the exact same cams that Ford used previously?

Also interesting that Ford isn't tagging the connecting rods as being sinter forged as they have on the Boss motors, as if to imply they are a huge leap over and above regular powdered rods...

Thanks again, Sid.

I didn't have time to read the whole thread but the intake itself is the same one used since 2007 :thumbsup:

The cams do have GT prefixes but the suffixes are different so I don't think the cams are 100% identical to the original GT cams.

-Steve

 

[Silver2003Cobra]

ok, the rods.. are they a true forged piece, or are they forged powdered metal?

 

[Zeroescence]

ok, the rods.. are they a true forged piece, or are they forged powdered metal?

Powder