2018 Mustang GT Performance Pack 2

[Zemedici]

I think it's the other way around. No one looking at a mustang is interested in an M3, but with the newfound performance in American muscle cars and the leaps and strides made in the interior department ... m3 customers are probably starting to look at muscle cars.

There's been comparisons with the M4 and the Camaro SS, as well as the GT350 and both cars kicked the crap out of the M4, have a (somewhat?) comparable interior and cost half as much. Unless you're a 100% snob, its hard not to cross shop in that direction.

From my professional experience with Ford - probably 80-90% of my customers like muscle style, and hate the Euro stuff.

The Euro customers can come to the Muscle car side, but Ford should not cater to these people. They're 'extra' - Ford is the #1 selling brand for a reason, lets not muck that up. Imo...

The GT350 was a TOTAL flop.

 

[01performanceredvertsnake]

From my professional experience with Ford - probably 80-90% of my customers like muscle style, and hate the Euro stuff.

The Euro customers can come to the Muscle car side, but Ford should not cater to these people. They're 'extra' - Ford is the #1 selling brand for a reason, lets not muck that up. Imo...

The GT350 was a TOTAL flop.

How was it a flop? (Genuine curiosity to see your opinion not sarcasm)


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[GT Premi]

I think it's the other way around. No one looking at a mustang is interested in an M3, but with the newfound performance in American muscle cars and the leaps and strides made in the interior department ... m3 customers are probably starting to look at muscle cars.

There's been comparisons with the M4 and the Camaro SS, as well as the GT350 and both cars kicked the crap out of the M4, have a (somewhat?) comparable interior and cost half as much. Unless you're a 100% snob, its hard not to cross shop in that direction.

People looking at Mustangs are absolutely interested in M3s/M4s! They just can't or don't want to make that jump in price. You're right, though, that you'd have to be a hella snob not to be cross shopping recent Mustangs against the Euros. The best M4 that BMW has to offer, M4 GTS, got completely skull-drug by the GT350R in Motor Trend's BDC competition last year. The basic Mustang GT has been lockstep or better with the M3/M4 performance-wise ever since the 2010 models.

 

[Snagged]

I do like the M series a great bit myself, but crap they cost a lot. On top of that they are very expensive to maintain. I was shocked when I looked at the price tag for maintenance alone.

 

[Zemedici]

How was it a flop? (Genuine curiosity to see your opinion not sarcasm)


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

The Shelby name used to mean tire shredding v8 power, not sub 500whp, torqueless 'handler'. I've probably had 20 customers buy GT350s, go 'man this thing is slow', and sell it and buy a Hellcat.

Its horsepower wars, and Dodge is way way out in front at the moment. They should have kept the GT350 idea, but done a new Boss 302, and a Big HP GT500.

 

[01performanceredvertsnake]

The Shelby name used to mean tire shredding v8 power, not sub 500whp, torqueless 'handler'. I've probably had 20 customers buy GT350s, go 'man this thing is slow', and sell it and buy a Hellcat.

Its horsepower wars, and Dodge is way way out in front at the moment. They should have kept the GT350 idea, but done a new Boss 302, and a Big HP GT500.

Well it'd probably be fast to me but then again I drive a basically stock 01 Cobra. I see what you're saying hp and tq wise though, compared to the hellcat demon and zl1 it's not enough. But then again the Dodges are straight line cars and the zl1 is like an old scrambler or dual purpose bike, it can turn and go fast in a straight line.
It seems to me it was expected to be what you said, a tire shredding monster with gobs of torque.
Just off my limited knowledge of the old 350s and 500s at least the first ones, the 500 had the power and the 350 handled. Ford stuck to the heritage of it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Ford also stuck to the heritage of the boss 302 with years of production, which colors came out etc etc. What would be nice is a Boss 351 to take on the zl1 and a boss 429 for the demon or to replace the 500.
Ford probably could've brought a 500 and 350 out at the same time, I don't know much about marketing so having two halo cars out may or may not be a good thing.
If the rumors are true that the 500 was pushed back after the Demon came out then it seems that Ford was almost ready to have a new 500 out.



Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Snagged]

The Shelby name used to mean tire shredding v8 power, not sub 500whp, torqueless 'handler'. I've probably had 20 customers buy GT350s, go 'man this thing is slow', and sell it and buy a Hellcat.

Its horsepower wars, and Dodge is way way out in front at the moment. They should have kept the GT350 idea, but done a new Boss 302, and a Big HP GT500.

Well the next iteration of the GT500 will be out soon enough and I'm sure it will not disappoint in the HP department. The GT350 was a gift to the corner carvers. I'm not an overly huge fan of the GT350 myself, because I'm not one for the twisties (too expensive of a hobby), but I love there is some diversity with Ford's line up. If I were rich I would for sure get a Gt350 just for the flat plane alone, however. Of course, if I were rich I'm sure I would be hitting some track days and would more than likely fall in love with the GT350R. ha

 

[01performanceredvertsnake]

Well the next iteration of the GT500 will be out soon enough and I'm sure it will not dissappoint in the HP department. The GT350 was a gift to the corner carvers. I'm not a huge fan of the GT350 myself but I love there is some diversity with Ford's line up. If I were rich I would for sure get a Gt350 just for the flat plane alone.

I agree, it's good that Ford has a corner carved and a big hp punch you in the mouth car, i.e. the 350 and 500. I think they could've combined it and make a direct zl1 competitor but it's good that they separated the two and who knows maybe the new 500 will have the handling to back up all the hp.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[Voltwings]

The Shelby name used to mean tire shredding v8 power, not sub 500whp, torqueless 'handler'. I've probably had 20 customers buy GT350s, go 'man this thing is slow', and sell it and buy a Hellcat.

Its horsepower wars, and Dodge is way way out in front at the moment. They should have kept the GT350 idea, but done a new Boss 302, and a Big HP GT500.

Mmm ... not quite, if you look at the actual history of shelby they have always been about handling. Carol Shelby is literally the reason they started racing mustangs in the first place, the SCCA wouldn't allow them in at first until Carol Shelby petitioned to let them race. Then he kicked the crap out of everyone with them. People think the Shelby name means whatever they want it to mean.

This is the same reason Porsche and Ferrari put drilled brake rotors on their cars. Drilled brake rotors do absolutely zero for performance, and actually perform worse. Do you know why Ferrari and Porsche continue to put drilled brake rotors on cars though? Because people think that's what sports cars have. Literally that is the reason. The same reason Subaru has to tune "bumps" into their CVT because people are too stupid to understand the car doesn't have gears and isn't going to shift.

Rant over. By the way, i'm not calling you stupid, i'm calling the average doesn't-know-shit-about-cars person stupid. Ford built a solid car and shouldn't have to apologize because people don't understand what they're buying.

 

[RRMBrembo]

Mmm ... not quite, if you look at the actual history of shelby they have always been about handling. Carol Shelby is literally the reason they started racing mustangs in the first place, the SCCA wouldn't allow them in at first until Carol Shelby petitioned to let them race. Then he kicked the crap out of everyone with them. People think the Shelby name means whatever they want it to mean.

This is the same reason Porsche and Ferrari put drilled brake rotors on their cars. Drilled brake rotors do absolutely zero for performance, and actually perform worse. Do you know why Ferrari and Porsche continue to put drilled brake rotors on cars though? Because people think that's what sports cars have. Literally that is the reason. The same reason Subaru has to tune "bumps" into their CVT because people are too stupid to understand the car doesn't have gears and isn't going to shift.

Rant over. By the way, i'm not calling you stupid, i'm calling the average doesn't-know-shit-about-cars person stupid. Ford built a solid car and shouldn't have to apologize because people don't understand what they're buying.

Agreed. Regarding the Shelby heritage with the Mustang, the GT350 was the first Shelby Mustang and was absolutely track oriented. There's a reason he (Carrol) was integral to Ford beating Ferrari in the 60's LeMans and it wasn't tire shredding power.

 

[GT Premi]

... I see what you're saying hp and tq wise though, compared to the hellcat demon and zl1 it's not enough. But then again the Dodges are straight line cars and the zl1 is like an old scrambler or dual purpose bike, it can turn and go fast in a straight line. ...

Things change. The original Camaro ZL1 was a straight-line-only car. Now it's all about the curves. Ford's going after more "sophisticated" buyers. The next GT500 is not going to be a straight-line-only car. It'll probably be able to hustle down the 1/4 in a high-10/low-11, but that's not going to be its focus. That time has passed.

 

[01performanceredvertsnake]

Things change. The original Camaro ZL1 was a straight-line-only car. Now it's all about the curves. Ford's going after more "sophisticated" buyers. The next GT500 is not going to be a straight-line-only car. It'll probably be able to hustle down the 1/4 in a high-10/low-11, but that's not going to be its focus. That time has passed.

I agree with what you're saying, that's why I said I'm glad Ford stuck to the heritage and made the 350 a handling car which it does extremely well in my opinion. We'll just have to wait and see what the next 500 brings.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[DAVESVT2000]

I've probably had 20 customers buy GT350s, go 'man this thing is slow', and sell it and buy a Hellcat.

Then those 20 customers had no idea what they were buying, they just had to have the latest and greatest.

Think about it, they buy a car meant for corner carving road course open tracking, probably never once wound it out to 8000rpm which is its sweet spot, and traded it in on a straight line drag car automatic hellcat.

This isn't the 350's fault that they never experienced what the car is truely meant for.

 

[GT Premi]

eXactly!

 

[Never_Enough]

So will we have $50K+ Mustangs GTs for sale now without deep discounts?

 

[RRMBrembo]

So will we have $50K+ Mustangs GTs for sale now without deep discounts?

Will people buy said Mustang GT's for $50+ when the Camaro has deep discounts? I think the writing is on the wall...

 

[Never_Enough]

Will people buy said Mustang GT's for $50+ when the Camaro has deep discounts? I think the writing is on the wall...

Neither one is worth $50k IMO

 

[03Sssnake]

Neither one is worth $50k IMO

pretty much this....I saw plenty of Z28s and ZL1s going 15-20K off MSRP, dealers seemed to have trouble moving them, especially the Z28. There is one near me with 3K miles on the clock going for 43k! The same dealer is doing crazy cousin eddie deals on SS 1LEs.....I think the 500 and 350 can get away with more because of the moniker, but a run of the mill mustang, nope...

 

[RRMBrembo]

Neither one is worth $50k IMO

Then if Camaro's are deep discounted and Mustang's are not you'll see sales decline sharply with the Mustang. At this point Ford will either discount them heavily late in the 18 MY or they'll keep taking the sales hit. Supply and demand drives the market.

 

[Snagged]

Neither one is worth $50k IMO

I was going to say, aren't the Camaros pretty pricey now?

EDIT:
Oh, well there you go.

pretty much this....I saw plenty of Z28s and ZL1s going 15-20K off MSRP, dealers seemed to have trouble moving them, especially the Z28. There is one near me with 3K miles on the clock going for 43k! I think the 500 and 350 can get away with more because of the moniker, but a run of the mill mustang, nope...