3.3L whipple kit fot GTO already and we still dont have one.

[Twinturbo Ranger]

Take a centrifugal blower and spin it by hand. It will spin alot easier than a Roots are Whipple style blower hence less energy will be needed to spin it. Now as far as the 2.3 and the 3.3 requiring less power than a factory Eaton I can believe that easy. Number one you are slowing it down considerably and it compresses air more efficiently. I think it is obvious that the 3.3L will make more power, but it will come at a cost or it would be marketed in the beginning instead of a 2.3.

I know the topic has swayed to a centrifugal debate, but there is no comparison really. I centrifugal is basically half a turbo ,which is the most efficient period, it uses a turbine wheel on one side with a set of gears and pulley on the other connected to the crank to build rpm's and hence boost. It will never recreate the torque of a turbo or whipple/eaton style blower, but it is efficient. Plus you have to look at whats proven in racing and not necessarily try and recreate the wheel. Kenne Bells and Whipples are seldom used while centrifugals and turbos are top dog.

I would like to see someone try a bigger 3.3 and see what kind of power it makes as I never like to discourage anyone, but don't do it blindy with the bigger is always better theory.

Just a opinion.........

 

[Evil SS]

Evil04Cobra - Are you going ahead with the 3.3L install. When do you think yo will have info?


Are thoes Whipple numbers flywheel or WHP?

 

[j card]

Sure the 3.3 comes at a cost. It's more expensive to manufacture, and it is more difficult to fit into a confined space. Your engine doesn't spin a blower "by hand" then it is up and running, the air load on each blower is so much higher than the frictional drag, that it is a very small part of the picture.

A turbo isn't necessarily the most efficient. A perfectly designed turbo system is, but a lot of them fall short of that, and in many case, a lysholm screw compressor can be more efficient than a less than perfect turbo system. Whipple superchargers have been dominant in drag racing classes where they haven't been banned - like TAD and TAFC. One of the reasons that a centrifugal or a turbo is more popular, is that their lower torque down low makes it easier to hook up off of the line.

 

[Twinturbo Ranger]

Turbo with low torque numbers??? My Ranger had over 620 ft lb pounds at 11 psi of boost at 3000 rpm's and that was through a automatic with a loose convertor??? I've owned all of them, centrifugals, single turbos, twin turbos, whipples, and eatons and a turbo setup is king hands down on power. If frictional drag has nothing to do with it then why do blowers soak up so much power compared to a turbo?

 

[Emmerson_Biggins]

Without skewing this too much, both blowers and turbos use energy produced by the engine, but it is where the energy to drive the unit is coming from. Blowers get it from the crankshaft, turbos from the exhaust, but in a nut shell, the energy needed to do the job in either case is high. Turbos just use energy that is nomally considered wasted, being able to put that waste energy to use is indeed, efficient.

Evil-- waiting on the blower and the subsequent measurements, I'll certainly keep you posted.

4sdvenom-- you have a PM


:read:

 

[4sdvenom]

Lets not sway this anymore than it has. It is not a debate between centrifigals, or turbo's. Yes turbos are considered the most efficient (when properly sized with system), but we are interested in the 3.3L twin screw, and what it will take to get one on our motors.

BTW the fastest drag cars on the planet use the roots blower the most inefficient blower made, and it is obviously effective.:burnout:

 

[Twinturbo Ranger]

Well maybe I worded that wrong, what I was saying if the air being moved is causing the most drag then a turbo would not be efficinet either because they all move x amount of air, correct? The reason a blower uses up alot of power is because it is mechanical and runs of the crank. The lighter the components and the more easier they are to spin the more efficient or faster they will be period. That is right down to engine internals. Look at it this way they make plastic turbo wheels, ball bearings and other light wieght components to make turbos spool faster and the same applies to blowers....

 

[j card]

You're right, but a turbo also uses a lot of power due to backpressure and restriction - usually just as much or more backpressure in the exhaust between the valve and the turbo, than the turbo produces in boost. There is no free lunch here. If it was, ther turbo would be producing more energy than it consumes, which has not been invented yet.

 

[Emmerson_Biggins]

TwinTurbo Ranger -- Lighter weight components do not apply to making a blower spin faster, as stated in the last sentence of your post. Blower speed is directly dictated by engine RPM. Period.

 

[j card]

We got way off topic here - your original argument was - the 3.3l blower is going to take a lot more power to turn it, and is too big - which is not correct. Back on topic anyone?

 

[Emmerson_Biggins]

Anybody know where I can get a 6 inch pulley to fit a Whipple ??

 

[Twinturbo Ranger]

Yes we did. Sorry bout that.... again with the discussion.
Thanks Mike

 

[Evil SS]

evil04cobra - What shop do you work for? Need an aprentice (sp)

My prediction on the 3.3L whipple will be an easy 750 rwhp and unreal average power. Its a 9 second blower on our cars. This blower on davidmax's car would be awsome.

 

[JKD COBRA]

Here, I will ask an on topic question.

The 3.3L should obviously be able to support more HP. My question is, for the people that drive their cars every day and only want to run 13-15psi for daily driving and then around 19psi for the track/weekends only. . .which blower would be the better bang for the buck choice. The 2.3 whipple or the 3.3L whipple?

 

[Emmerson_Biggins]

Bang for the buck ; 2.2 or 2.3

Unequalled performance (in the screw category) ; 3.3

Evil SS-- I don't need an apprentice, but certainly do appreciate the offer. I am going to be needing several different inputs from several different people as I start to figure out what you may or may not be willing to do to run this blower. i.e. Are you willing to change hoods, clearance the firewall, give a crap about emissions, etc.

I plan on designing something that I can share with you, and have you be able to go to any machinist with a CNC machine, download the program and make the part(s).

The next step, tuning, will probably involve several of us. You will have to buy your own whipple, bolt it to the adapter, and tune it.
We need to develop a think tank for ideas, what's working and what's not, I will probably have mine tuned to save time, once the hard parts are installed. I will be happy to share my R&D with you, but tuning secrets will probably stay, well, secret. Our initial computer models show 700RWHP easily, and well within the grasp of the fine sponsors of this site.

Don't be suprised if we do the leg work and someone buys the plans from me. Stay posted. :beer:

 

[4sdvenom]

Here is a thought I have not seen or heard considered. Underdrive pulleys do just that underdrive the accessories to free up power. Therefore they use a larger pulley to slow down the accessory being driven. The 3.3L would use a much larger snout pulley to produce the same amount of boost as a 2.2L, or 2.3L. Thus in theory (since whipple says there is barely a difference in power used to spin a 3.3L vs. 2.3L, and definetly less power to spin a 3.3L vs. the stock eaton) then technically with a 3.3L you should also be freeing up power (by actually underdriving the blower) at 15 psi vs. 15 psi on a 2.3L. This to me seems to fall right in line with "the power consumed to spin X power adder is based on rpm theory".

So to answer your question KevinJKD it seems to me the 3.3L would be the best route for your scenario.

 

[Emmerson_Biggins]

As long as you don't mind some "minor" modifications. ;-)

 

[4sdvenom]

Originally posted by evil04cobra
Bang for the buck ; 2.2 or 2.3

Unequalled performance (in the screw category) ; 3.3

Are you willing to change hoods, clearance the firewall, give a crap about emissions, etc.

I plan on designing something that I can share with you, and have you be able to go to any machinist with a CNC machine, download the program and make the part(s).

evil04cobra,
I am speaking for myself, but I don't think those of us that want the 3.3L will mind doing a bit of engine compartment massaging here, and there. Actually I looked at ways to clearance the firewall a while back while kicking some other ideas around.

If you make this happen, and are going to make the plans available for purchase that would be great. It would be a real do it yourself (kinda) project, and not something that is going to rape those of us who want this. Not to mention my brother-in-law owns a tool and die shop. :rockon:

 

[4sdvenom]

Sorry accidental double post.

Go 3.3L :rockon:

 

[j card]

If all you want is 19Psi, I'd go for the 2.3 - you just don't need the 3.3 at that point.

It would leave room for growth though.