96-98 Cobra vs 99/01 Cobra vs. 03/04 Mach1

[SKMCOBRA]

Let's assume all of these are stock. I'd like to hear some actual explanations on comparing these cars in the 1/4 mile.

96-98 Cobra = 305hp & 300 lb/ft torque
99/01 Cobra = 320hp & 317 lb/ft torque
03/04 Mach1 = 305hp & ??? lb/ft torque

Why is it that the 96-98 Cobras are almost identical in power to a Mach1, but everyone claims that the Mach1 can beat a 99/01 Cobra which has more power than both? I watched 5 Mach1's run at the track three weeks ago and the best I saw was a 13.4. I heard one finally ran a 13.28 later on when it got cooler around 11pm. Shouldn't a stock 96-98 Cobra run about the same as a Mach1. I know that the Machs have 3.55 gears vs 3.27's in the Cobras. A buddy of mine has an 04 Mach with Borla exhaust and I have Magnaflow. We got on it from a 20mph roll and I jumped a car on him almost immediately. I can't wait to finally run at the track to see what my slightly modded Cobra will do. Could it be the Cobra engines repsond better to more airflow than the Mach1 engines?

 

[1BadKB03]

Let's assume all of these are stock. I'd like to hear some actual explanations on comparing these cars in the 1/4 mile.

96-98 Cobra = 305hp & 300 lb/ft torque
99/01 Cobra = 320hp & 317 lb/ft torque
03/04 Mach1 = 305hp & ??? lb/ft torque

Why is it that the 96-98 Cobras are almost identical in power to a Mach1, but everyone claims that the Mach1 can beat a 99/01 Cobra which has more power than both? I watched 5 Mach1's run at the track three weeks ago and the best I saw was a 13.4. I heard one finally ran a 13.28 later on when it got cooler around 11pm. Shouldn't a stock 96-98 Cobra run about the same as a Mach1. I know that the Machs have 3.55 gears vs 3.27's in the Cobras. A buddy of mine has an 04 Mach with Borla exhaust and I have Magnaflow. We got on it from a 20mph roll and I jumped a car on him almost immediately. I can't wait to finally run at the track to see what my slightly modded Cobra will do. Could it be the Cobra engines repsond better to more airflow than the Mach1 engines?

i dont know track times for any of them but i know that the mach was under rated at 305 and the 99/01 are over rated at 320

 

[4.6 Rocket]

The mach 1 is underrated and has a better powerband. On average it is the most powerfull 4v made as far as dyno's ar concerned. The 99/01 cobra's make their power high in the rpms were mach 1's make more mid range power. This is why from a roll the mach and cobra are a good race even though the mach dynos higher. From a dig the mach has a solid axle were the cobra has irs. The mach's also have 3.55 gears wich helps them rev compared to the cobra's 3.27s. The 96-98 cobra's make good power but lack the torque that the other two make but driven well can bve a drivers race.

From a dig: mach 1 > 99/01 cobra > 96-98 cobra
From a roll: mach 1 or 99/01 cobra > 96-98 cobra

 

[baylorbear98GT]

A Mach is much stronger than a 96-98 (no offense) and slightly more so than a 99-01. Don't know why Ford underatted so low. 99-01 Cobra's have slightly lower compression and different heads and cams (same intake) they make a little more high rpm hp but are in a significant deficit in tq. My car with just a cai and exhaust (without headers) makes 300rwhp and a whopping 327rwtq. My buddies stock Mach dyno'ed 287-305 right off th show room floor. A similarily setup 96-98 were dynoing 240-250. Stock 96-98's are GOOD races for stock pi GT's. That said, with porting the 96-98 dual runner intake heads outflow all other 4V heads, you just have to rev them pretty hard.

 

[SKMCOBRA]

Don't mean to sound defensive here, but I test drove a brand new 03 GT two years ago and it had no where the hp or torque my Cobra does. I have yet to have one challenge me to find out exactly what the turn out would be, but I'm pretty sure I'd win pretty big just based on driving both. Also a stock 96-98 Cobra may only show 250hp at the fly, but with exhaust and CAI most of the dyno's I've seen show in the upper 270's to low 280's HP. With that said, how expensive is it to have the heads ported and what kind of gains would I expect?

A Mach is much stronger than a 96-98 (no offense) and slightly more so than a 99-01. Don't know why Ford underatted so low. 99-01 Cobra's have slightly lower compression and different heads and cams (same intake) they make a little more high rpm hp but are in a significant deficit in tq. My car with just a cai and exhaust (without headers) makes 300rwhp and a whopping 327rwtq. My buddies stock Mach dyno'ed 287-305 right off th show room floor. A similarily setup 96-98 were dynoing 240-250. Stock 96-98's are GOOD races for stock pi GT's. That said, with porting the 96-98 dual runner intake heads outflow all other 4V heads, you just have to rev them pretty hard.

 

[SKMCOBRA]

Just curious why you put the 96-98's at the bottom from a dig when they have a solid axle vs the 99/01's IRS?

The mach 1 is underrated and has a better powerband. On average it is the most powerfull 4v made as far as dyno's ar concerned. The 99/01 cobra's make their power high in the rpms were mach 1's make more mid range power. This is why from a roll the mach and cobra are a good race even though the mach dynos higher. From a dig the mach has a solid axle were the cobra has irs. The mach's also have 3.55 gears wich helps them rev compared to the cobra's 3.27s. The 96-98 cobra's make good power but lack the torque that the other two make but driven well can bve a drivers race.

From a dig: mach 1 > 99/01 cobra > 96-98 cobra
From a roll: mach 1 or 99/01 cobra > 96-98 cobra

 

[ka3ak]

A Mach is much stronger than a 96-98 (no offense) and slightly more so than a 99-01. Don't know why Ford underatted so low. 99-01 Cobra's have slightly lower compression and different heads and cams (same intake) they make a little more high rpm hp but are in a significant deficit in tq. My car with just a cai and exhaust (without headers) makes 300rwhp and a whopping 327rwtq. My buddies stock Mach dyno'ed 287-305 right off th show room floor. A similarily setup 96-98 were dynoing 240-250. Stock 96-98's are GOOD races for stock pi GT's. That said, with porting the 96-98 dual runner intake heads outflow all other 4V heads, you just have to rev them pretty hard.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Machs have short runner intakes v. Cobra's long runner, no? ( For reference; Machs have the same heads as 03 Cobras, Navi intake cams, and 96 Cobra exhaust cams)

 

[baylorbear98GT]

Don't mean to sound defensive here, but I test drove a brand new 03 GT two years ago and it had no where the hp or torque my Cobra does. I have yet to have one challenge me to find out exactly what the turn out would be, but I'm pretty sure I'd win pretty big just based on driving both. Also a stock 96-98 Cobra may only show 250hp at the fly, but with exhaust and CAI most of the dyno's I've seen show in the upper 270's to low 280's HP. With that said, how expensive is it to have the heads ported and what kind of gains would I expect?

No need to apoligize you have the much better car :beer: . To tell you the truth I have never driven a 96-98 Cobra and I was going off of what I read. I do know that they turn similiar track times though (advantage Cobra) and Cobras respond better to mods. As far as much as headwork will help you out I have no idea but I will find the magazine I read that compared and contrasted 4V heads for you.

 

[baylorbear98GT]

I'll respond later y'all I gotta date!!

 

[4.6 Rocket]

Just curious why you put the 96-98's at the bottom from a dig when they have a solid axle vs the 99/01's IRS?

The 96-98 cobra does not make as much torque as the other 2 4v's and needs rpm to make power. Gears can eassily help this problem. They also make the least amount of power on the dyno, especially torque. Torque gets things moving and hp keeps them pulling.

 

[Traveler]

i dont know track times for any of them but i know that the mach was under rated at 305 and the 99/01 are over rated at 320

99/01s Cobras overrated? No.
03/04 Mach 1s underrated? Yes.

 

[pottsy]

A Mach is much stronger than a 96-98 (no offense) and slightly more so than a 99-01. Don't know why Ford underatted so low. 99-01 Cobra's have slightly lower compression and different heads and cams (same intake) they make a little more high rpm hp but are in a significant deficit in tq. My car with just a cai and exhaust (without headers) makes 300rwhp and a whopping 327rwtq. My buddies stock Mach dyno'ed 287-305 right off th show room floor. A similarily setup 96-98 were dynoing 240-250. Stock 96-98's are GOOD races for stock pi GT's. That said, with porting the 96-98 dual runner intake heads outflow all other 4V heads, you just have to rev them pretty hard.

I disagree with you here, no offense it just seems like you have very limited experience with the earlier Cobras. Machs are not MUCH stronger than a 96-98. The big difference is in the low and mid range, which mainly matters when you hit it from a dig. From a roll the Mach of course still takes a 96-98 but it's not quite so ugly. Of course the Cobra needs mods to keep up with a stock Mach on the big end, but it's easily doable.

NO stock 96-98 is going to put down 240 rwhp, most are at or around 260 rwhp stock. :lol: 240 rwhp is a laughable estimate. I put down 288 rwhp with just CAI, pulleys, x-pipe, catback. There are guys at 300 rwhp without LT's. Now with the LT's, SCT tune and JLT CAI I should be well into the 300's. And while 96-98 cars are decent races for a PI GT on the street, in the upper gears it is clearly all 4V. We've been over this numerous times before. The two cars have similar ET's (maybe a couple of tenths faster for the Cobra) but there is a healthy mph difference between the two. The Cobra is clearly faster, maybe not so clearly quicker especially when a bad driver takes the wheel. It is much closer between a 99/01 Cobra and 96-98 Cobra than a 99-04 GT.

A 99/01 comes in right between the Mach and "SN95" Cobra from a dig. The IRS kills it. The mid range is improved significantly over the 96-98, I know because I just finished a swap of a 99 motor into a 96, I could tell the difference before and after. Up top the 99/01 does not have a huge advantage, although it is slightly noticeable. The motor just feels stronger around town in the middle of the powerband. If you were to go by "feel", the 96-98 does sit way below the other two 4V's on the totem pole. When you go by acutal track performance or dyno numbers (what really matters), it's really not THAT big of a difference.

What you have to remember is that with each iteration of the N/A 4V motor Ford has improved the mid range power delivery. So the Machs feel much stronger on the street than a 96-98 in stock form because of the quick torque delivery and slightly steeper gearing. They dyno a good 20 rwhp higher and are clearly faster. But it's not like it's a blowout for the older cars. I've raced one '04 Mach with just 4.10's and Flows and I was inching away on the top end after he got the jump. I know if he had all the mods I did he would walk me, but I'm just sharing my experience.

These early mod motor Cobras are clearly some of the most misunderstood from a performance perspective...

 

[pottsy]

BTW, Hersheyman-- I should be at TVR tomorrow with two other 96-98 Cobras and a Mach 1 if you care to come out. You can drive my car while I'm there and see if the 4.10's are what you want.

 

[crystal_SVT]

i think if your talkin about all out drag racing performance, the 99-01 are on the bottom of the list sadly, cuz of the pesky IRS although it def. has the power. that bein said its much easier to get a 96-98 and mach 1 into the 12's cuz of there better launching capabilitys.

 

[BmoseleyINC]

i dont know track times for any of them but i know that the mach was under rated at 305 and the 99/01 are over rated at 320

WRONG. WRONG WRONG. 99/01 Cobras are underated as well. This is seriously the 50th time this week I have some moron say something like this. 99's had a power recall, but they were all fixed and make a little more than 01's usually. Both are around 330-335 at the Crank STOCK. Learn your shit.

 

[SVTStrikesBack]

WRONG. WRONG WRONG. 99/01 Cobras are underated as well. This is seriously the 50th time this week I have some moron say something like this. 99's had a power recall, but they were all fixed and make a little more than 01's usually. Both are around 330-335 at the Crank STOCK. Learn your shit.

This one is a little closer to the truth than most I've read so far. The Machs do have the 03 Cobra heads and are underrated. I posted somewhere on here just the other day about Mach 1 dynos and of course just yesterday found the highest dyno I've ever seen for one. The one I just saw put down 280 at the wheels. Before that(actually a newer issue) the highest I had seen was 263. I would agree in some cases the dyno would indicate that SOME Machs are underrated. The first 01 I saw MM&FF dyno they calculated to be making 324 at the crank. The dynos for 99's pre and post fix vary WILDLY. The lowest for any 4v i've ever seen was a pre fix 99 and IT put down somewhere in the 240's. I have seen 96-98s put down anything between 255-265 on AVERAGE. I have NEVER seen one in the 240's but I believe (don't quote me) that I have seen a 273 out of a B head car. Apples to apples comparison, Car and Driver has never tested a 96-98 OR a Mach 1 into the 13's. The 1st test of a C headed car was a 99 pre fix that I think ran a 14.0 or 14.1 at either 101 or 102. The 01 they later tested ran 13.5 at 105! Now I know anyone that has read any of my other posts knows that i have quoted C&D before and it is pretty much an accepted fact that they drive the cars slower than basically anyone else. That being said, they correct ALL of their tests for weather and altitude and what I feel you basically are getting is apples to apples. If you look at MM&FF, they have gotten STOCK Machs into the 13.1's and C headed cars into the 13.3's and B headed cars into they 13.3's as well. The Machs are a bit heavier than the 96-98', and the 99/01s are the heavies of the group. Pretty much for every point I have made here I have listed another to almost disprove it. there will always be slouches and freaks, but I would say for the most part, B heads dyno 255-265, C heads 260-275, and Machs 265-285. That's why you race. You never know what someone else has under the hood. :thumbsup:

 

[SVTStrikesBack]

By the way, I can find each issue and post the date and page for EACH claim if anyone has any doubts. I am a magazine pack-rat.

 

[SKMCOBRA]

Pottsy, I actually mentioned going to TV to my wife last night. Problem is we have no babysitter for our two girls. If I make it I will keep my eye open for your white Cobra.

BTW, Hersheyman-- I should be at TVR tomorrow with two other 96-98 Cobras and a Mach 1 if you care to come out. You can drive my car while I'm there and see if the 4.10's are what you want.

 

[cobra2798]

If u take the 99/01 320 hp and subtract the 15% drivetrain lose the avarage rwhp would be 272. my car dynoed bone stock at 286 so i do believe they are under rated and the car feels like it has more power than advertised. I have yet to run a mach1 but i would be interested in the out come.

 

[Cobra4pt6]

stock mach 1 w/ stock 3.55s < stock 99/01 Cobra w/ a set of 4.30s

all the 99/01 cobra needs is a little bit of gear


my car stock w/ no mufflers and air silencer removed put down 292rwhp