ka3ak said:
I have heard the very same thing about the cams, and you are also right about the heads. But I believe you are wrong about the intake. Mach's and 99-01 Cobra's have the exact same intake. :rockon:
96-98 Cobra vs 99/01 Cobra vs. 03/04 Mach1
- Thread starter SKMCOBRA
- Start date
I have heard the very same thing about the cams, and you are also right about the heads. But I believe you are wrong about the intake. Mach's and 99-01 Cobra's have the exact same intake. :rockon:
pottsy said:
I don't understand how you could pull away from a Mach on the top end? :shrug: I appreciate you setting me straight on the early 4V's though, you were correct in your assumption that I don't know that much about them. What I do know is that I have seen a stock Mach go 13.3 @ 105 and the best 96-98 time I have heard of was a 13.8. (with similiarily gearing he would have probably dropped a tenth or two). From the racing experience I have had with 96-98's I have beaten them pretty handily. IMO 96-98 Cobra is equivalent to a LT1 Mach = LS1. I would love to race you and see your car if you ever come down to Texas pm me.
There have been quite a few people in the sn95 cobra section run mid 13's bone stock. They don't have the mid range (heads lack velocity) but can be quick with a driver who knows what he's doing. The Mach is a monster, great low-mid range power and a suspension for drag racing. The 99/01 is right behind the Mach, not quite the low-mid range but slightly better top end.
With equal drivers Mach slightly faster than 99/01 which is slightly faster than the 96-98. When mods come the 96-98 is at a disadvantage. We have to go full bolt ons to reach 300rwhp while the 99/01 and Mach 1 make that fairly easy.
With equal drivers Mach slightly faster than 99/01 which is slightly faster than the 96-98. When mods come the 96-98 is at a disadvantage. We have to go full bolt ons to reach 300rwhp while the 99/01 and Mach 1 make that fairly easy.
32V GT said:
I pulled from a Mach because I had more mods, my car was at 288 rwhp at the time. That's more that most stock Machs are going to dyno (which is basically what this one was sans gears). A 96-98 isn't always going to lose. If my car was actually stock there would be no way.
I think of it more like 99-04 GT= LT1, on average. Of course there are some very strong LT1's out there that would defy this rule (like Mach = LS1), that's just my opinion based on what I've seen. A fair average stock time for a 96-98 is a 13.9 @ 102, some have gone much quicker, some slower. There is a thread on corral and here on SVTP both covering this right now.
A mach is NOT always equal to an LS1, either--in many cases, yes, but not in all. The "good running" 01-02 LS1 cars stock to stock will walk away from the strongest Machs with equal drivers, period. No stock Mach I've heard of has gone 110+ mph stock and/or put down almost 330 rwhp.
Put it this way...
96-98 Cobra: Makes power to 7000rpm redline, ~260rwhp, 3.27's stock.
99/01 Cobra: More midrange power, ~275rwhp, 3.27's stock, and 100 more lbs of weight than a 96-98.
03/04 Mach 1: More low end and midrange. Makes power lower, and has a lower redline 6500rpm. ~280rwhp stock. 3.55's stock. And weighs the same as a 96-98.
Basically, There are about 20rwhp between them all. And 100lbs of weight. So in reallity, about .1 difference in ET and 1 mph, given good drivers.
It's just harder to drive a 96-98 into it's poweband than the torquey, geared 03 Mach1. But just about any of the basic mods on the 96-98 will negate this advantage.
Jason
op:
96-98 Cobra: Makes power to 7000rpm redline, ~260rwhp, 3.27's stock.
99/01 Cobra: More midrange power, ~275rwhp, 3.27's stock, and 100 more lbs of weight than a 96-98.
03/04 Mach 1: More low end and midrange. Makes power lower, and has a lower redline 6500rpm. ~280rwhp stock. 3.55's stock. And weighs the same as a 96-98.
Basically, There are about 20rwhp between them all. And 100lbs of weight. So in reallity, about .1 difference in ET and 1 mph, given good drivers.
It's just harder to drive a 96-98 into it's poweband than the torquey, geared 03 Mach1. But just about any of the basic mods on the 96-98 will negate this advantage.
Jason
op:One more final note:
Ultimately, The 03 DOHC motor is THE best N/A DOHC powerplant. Period. They respond the best to mods, have the best heads, great cams, ect.
A modded 03/04 Mach will always beat a similarly modded 96/98 or 99/01 cobra.
Ultimately, The 03 DOHC motor is THE best N/A DOHC powerplant. Period. They respond the best to mods, have the best heads, great cams, ect.
A modded 03/04 Mach will always beat a similarly modded 96/98 or 99/01 cobra.
Cobra4pt6
Banned
JSHTROD said:
i have to disagree......back when i was fullbolt-on NA, in my '99 cobra i pulled on several modded mach 1s........
03/04 machs are about equal to geared 99/01 cobras.........
JSHTROD said:Put it this way...
96-98 Cobra: Makes power to 7000rpm redline, ~260rwhp, 3.27's stock.
99/01 Cobra: More midrange power, ~275rwhp, 3.27's stock, and 100 more lbs of weight than a 96-98.
03/04 Mach 1: More low end and midrange. Makes power lower, and has a lower redline 6500rpm. ~280rwhp stock. 3.55's stock. And weighs the same as a 96-98.
Basically, There are about 20rwhp between them all. And 100lbs of weight. So in reallity, about .1 difference in ET and 1 mph, given good drivers.
It's just harder to drive a 96-98 into it's poweband than the torquey, geared 03 Mach1. But just about any of the basic mods on the 96-98 will negate this advantage.
Jason
That is pretty accurate. 96-98 cobras are the ones that really need gears the most. The hp are close but like you said the torque on the 96-98 is less. All cars have potential but the mach 1 is the easiest to make go fast, best combination for strait line accleration. The 99/01 needs to be launched right to make good times and the 96-98 needs a good driver.
Cobra4pt6 said:
Read: Stock Mach 1's are about equal to GEARED Cobras (Gears are mods folks).
03 DOHCs make more power. Period. Are you really trying to refute this?
:shrug:
JSHTROD said:
They are very similar power wise. (mach 1/ 99/01 Cobras). They are better, but not that much.
JSHTROD said:
Absolutely correct. The 03 heads are alot better than the C which are alot better than the B. The Mach is what the 4v should have been when it debuted in the Cobra in 96.
CY98Cobra said:
except they should have made it a 5 liter :-D
4.6 Rocket said:
Yea, but pound for pound, these 4.6 DOHC's fly!
epper:
JSHTROD said:Yea, but pound for pound, these 4.6 DOHC's fly!
Yeah, but just imagine what kind of numbers we would all make with a 5.0 mod motor :burnout:
LS what?
pottsy said:
LS1's are faster up top, those damn thing's pull hard up there.
Cobra4pt6 said:
Not trying to be a d1ck (4 once), but where are all these Mach 1's??? They only made around 15k of them... If you are talking on the track, I can see that...but on the street I have seen one.. Just curious..
op:
Very nice info. There's a magazine article i have where there is a 2001 Cobra Vs a 2002 Camaro SS. They dynoe'd both of the cars and the Cobra put down 240 rwhp, what a joke. The SS put down like 268 rwhp. Heres the link.
http://www.stangbangers.com/01_CobraVsCamaroSS_Article.htm
http://www.stangbangers.com/01_CobraVsCamaroSS_Article.htm
On a positive note for us 96-98 owners, I've heard that our swirl heads respond to forced air induction better than any of the other 4.6 32valve engines. Not sure if that's true, but I have read it in more than one magazine over the past two years. One of these days I plan to have a Ken Bell mounted on top, unless I can afford an 04 Mystichrome first.
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