Barrett-Jackson Shelby GT500 -> $600,000

Purvis

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mrGT said:
Purvis,

Okay! I think I see your point....I wasn't trying to compare new to used, or company to individual, though. I wasn't even saying that an auto dealer made very little on the cars they sell. I was only speaking in terms of a principle. In my opinion, a person, or a company for that matter, has the right to set what ever value they want when it comes to selling anything and that, in a "free market", the economic rule of Supply and Demand will eventually dictate, to some degree, the actual selling price. If you don't want that right, that's okay by me. Now there are some things in life that the government has opted to regulate...natural gas and electricity are probably the biggies, but even the government found that regulating prices wasn't doing any good so they started to slack off....Ma Bell starting to come back together and the joining of major oil companies came back into play. No, I'm not comparing Ford to the government, I am just trying to show how the classic economic rule of Supply and Demand is a major player in establishing price. That's all .......

But Ford did not lose sales because of Dealer "Greed".....they, and GM, lost market share to the Toyotas and Hondas because people felt they got a higher quality car for the same money....so the demand for a Ford/GM dropped and to try and stabize their market share, Ford/GM started dropping the price....at least here in Oklahoma, Ford and GM were advertising "Buy at the same price our employees do".....that just doesn't sound greedy to me. That is a classic Supply and Demand situation setting price...but neither Ford nor GM could stop the mass exit to those other brands. Now why how did the cost of a Ford/GM climb to be in the class of the JD Powers Quality vehicles of Toyota and Honda? Well, it looks like you've heard/read the news, so you know what Ford/GM has stated on what they believe has done it.....hence the cost cutting exercises at both companies. No where have I read that Ford/GM put the blame on their dealer's attempting to be greedy as a cause.

All this being said, I am not an economic guru....I'm just a common person that thinks this way. If I'm wrong, well, I guess I'm wrong....but when all is said and done, what I think or say doesn't mean diddlely squat......so my apologies to everyone.

PS: in your discussion about house sales, you hinted at exactly what I've been saying when you said "the housing market"....that is Supply and Demand. Think about it. That piece alone will account for more than any other item when it comes to actual sales price. To get the most for your house, you need a big demand and small supply. You won't get as much if you try to sell when the supply is high, but the demand is low. Unless, of course, you have a unique and special house.....I will call that a "Shelby".

Have a great day!!


I didnt agree with your first few posts, ;-) but I agree with everything in this one.. :beer:
 

Purvis

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Chris Benvie said:
Purvis, did you just say that Ford and GM just laid off 60,000 employees because of greedy dealers?

No, definately not directly.. I never said that.
But greedy dealers certainly donot help the situation.

Take me for example..
I was in the market for this car while it was still just a rumour about a year ago..
I am a long time, Ford guy, but the dealers pissed me off so much with this car over a series of several months, and after being lied to several times, and having agreements broken, I said F it, and bought a ZO6 instead.

That is an example of a lost sale for Ford, due to GREEDY dealers..

While the greedy dealers obviously did not directly cause Ford to lay off 30,000 employees, (Which was due to many factors that are beyond my understanding) losing sales at the dealer level, due to ridiculous inflated DEALER pricing, is unfortunate, and sales Ford cannot stand to lose. :nono:
 
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03DOHC

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Chris Benvie said:
BUT, this is a free market, an open economy
America does not have a 100% free market economy. Free markets don't have tarrifs and other government controls on the economy.

Mods, lock this thread cause its just going to get even more ugly.
There's no reason to close the thread if everyone follows the rules. Just because someone doesn't like to or cannot cogently argue their point is not a reason to close the thread.
 

mrGT

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03DOHC said:
There's no reason to close the thread if everyone follows the rules. Just because someone doesn't like to or cannot cogently argue their point is not a reason to close the thread.

Gee....I hope you weren't referring to me?
 

91svtbird

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mrGT said:
Gee....I hope you weren't referring to me?

I personally think this topic has been a very interesting, well expressed by both sides and has hit some pasionate cords on both sides . I have enjoyed reading and respect both views.Especially when everyone respects each other. just my opinion! :beer:
 
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Chris!

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Honeslty, I see both sides point, but being from the side that everyone is complaining about, if you were in my position, you would want to defend it to.


03Dohc, IT IS a free market, yes there are taxes and tarrifs, however, if these werent there, there would be NO regulation to actually have what we call a free market.
 

mrGT

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I do not believe a "tax-free, tarrif-free" market exists any where on this planet. It appears as though all countries use tax and tarrifs to protect their country's production, be it manufacturing, agriculture, livestock, or natural resources. I would like to think that America is about as close to a "free market" as there is amongst all the countries that mean anything at all.
 

03DOHC

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Chris Benvie said:
03Dohc, IT IS a free market, yes there are taxes and tarrifs, however, if these werent there, there would be NO regulation to actually have what we call a free market.
You cannot have regulation and freedom. That is a contradiction and is exactly why we have inflation.
 

03DOHC

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mrGT said:
I do not believe a "tax-free, tarrif-free" market exists any where on this planet. It appears as though all countries use tax and tarrifs to protect their country's production, be it manufacturing, agriculture, livestock, or natural resources. I would like to think that America is about as close to a "free market" as there is amongst all the countries that mean anything at all.
I agree 100%.
 

JJP SVT

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mrGT said:
I may be in the minority on this board when it comes to supporting "free enterprise"....even though I may not like how some go about it, I understand it, and I hold no ill will towards those that try. The dealer has the right to charge what they want, and the consumer has the right to buy where they want. It's the American way.

I agree 100%!

:beer:
 

Purvis

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91svtbird said:
I personally think this topic has been a very interesting, well expressed by both sides and has hit some pasionate cords on both sides . I have enjoyed reading and respect both views.Especially when everyone respects each other. just my opinion! :beer:

I agree 91svtbird.
There is no reason to close a thread, just because people dont agree..
There are 2 sides on this topic, (and some shades inbetween) and I think, eventhough the dealer did not agree with what I and a few others said, everyone remained cordial and respectful.. Arguing both sides intelligently, leads to better understanding of a topic for everyone.

I despise dealers that charge markups on new cars (for the reasons stated above).. But I try to never be close minded about why they do it.. Its just a policy that I personally do not agree with.

I think one thing that would really help the situation is to put a list together of all the dealers in the US that are charging markup on the Cobra, and put a list together of all the dealers charging MSRP, and then let everyone make their decision where they want to take their business..
Afterall, it is a free market society. :-D .
 
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Chris!

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03DOHC said:
You cannot have regulation and freedom. That is a contradiction and is exactly why we have inflation.

Really? Ok so we'll just have anarchy with no regulation, yup anarchy is freedom. If there wasnt regulation, you wouldnt drive that beautiful Sonic Blue Cobra (yes I'm jealous) or have any of the freedoms that you do enjoy today, like being able to go see a movie like Syriana, or drive on the highway and do 100mph. Inflation? When things get better (do they really tho?) prices go up.

I'm done with turning this into a political debate. As it makes things ugly, religion and politics, two things bad to debate on a public forum.
 

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